the AI thinks I'm a warmonger VERY early

[Greasy Dave]

I never used to get this negative in diplomacy unless I'd DOWed an AI civ but now it seems that a CS DOW provokes it.

I started a game last night - immortals, standard, continents. INcas and Suleimein were on my continent. I had a warrior and archer built. I'd taken out a couple of barbarian camps. My relations with the AI were friendly and neutral respectively. No negative modifiers.

Then around turn 20-30 ish I looked again and found I was a warmonger. I can't work out where the modifier came from. Though I'm thinking that my DOW of a CS to steal its worker, might have happened before the negative modifier hit. (I'm going to check when i get home tonight)

Ouch. Fair enough, if it is what caused it. I'm going to think twice before stealing a worker next game. Am I right? Do CS dow's cause negative modifiers with AI civs now?

 

[Volapyk]

Yup you can indeed get the warmonger diplo-hit from a single DoW, luckily the effect wears off now instead of in Vanilla where you were stuck with it forever.

 

[civnoob13]

If they do in a way that's good because IMO it's an exploit that needed to be adressed. It should only be a temporary negative modifier though. I have noticed that I am seen as a warmongerer much easier as well now. I'm pretty sure I have been classed as a warmongerer in my last game for simply taking cities off someone who DOWed on me, although I can't remember the exact chronology and it might have been after the first person I declared war on in the whole game that warmongerers called me a warmonger.

 

[Hyper Nova]

I think they did in vanilla but only if you conquered them. Although I think if you did it a lot you also got it. But yeah they may have ramped it up to stop you continually stealing workers with little consequence. Or since CS diplomacy have been revamped, they now ask for protection, the ai might have been protecting them and didn't like you attacking a CS under protection. I can't be certain on these things though just a few thoughts for you.

 

[dexters]

Lesson: Don't Dow on CS to steal worker?

Also you can bully them to achieve the same thing without having to DoW. You probably need more than a warrior and archer to bully them but at least that's a programmed mechanic.

Lastly, DoW for stealing workers from CS is an exploit. And it's good it's not costless from the larger diplomatic view.

 

[Adjuvant]

This last emperor difficulty game, quite late near science victory, I'd finally risen to the point in demographics of being 1st place military. I hadn't dow'd for hundreds of turns (I took out Carthage in the beginning with celt warriors) yet 3 AI's called me warmonger all of a sudden. I think maybe just your military size can earn the diplo hit. Admittedly my military was getting ridiculously large.

 

[Aldor]

Lastly, DoW for stealing workers from CS is an exploit. And it's good it's not costless from the larger diplomatic view.

Huh? Since when is that an exploit? Been possible like forever?

And historically its been pretty common to attack other cities/states to get slaves, hasn't it?

 

[Arkangelus]

Yup, I took a city-state fairly early on and a couple of the leaders with more hippieish tendancies were annoyed at my 'warmongering' for a while.

They changed their tune after Askia steamrolled most of the continent and I was the only one who could stand up to him. THERES a warmonger for you.

 

[dexters]

Huh? Since when is that an exploit? Been possible like forever?

And historically its been pretty common to attack other cities/states to get slaves, hasn't it?

Sure but complaining about getting a diplomatic penalty for doing so is what I'm getting at.

An exploit is something you do that game can't understand. Incurring a warmonger penalty is a nice slap in the wrist. Probably too lenient in many ways but it's a cost of doing business nonetheless

That said, he stole a worker from a CS, there are other ways to get a worker now without DoW as I've outlined.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Lesson: Don't Dow on CS to steal worker?

Also you can bully them to achieve the same thing without having to DoW. You probably need more than a warrior and archer to bully them but at least that's a programmed mechanic.

Lastly, DoW for stealing workers from CS is an exploit. And it's good it's not costless from the larger diplomatic view.

Yep. Lesson learned the hard way. Stealing worker is not free anymore. Thus if you start next to CS lover like Siam, you might think twice before doing so. The good part, the hate decays over the time.

 

[Greasy Dave]

Sure but complaining about getting a diplomatic penalty for doing so is what I'm getting (quote)

actually l wasn't complaining. I think the penalty is Fair . i just wanted to confirm the rule change

 

[falcon7xx]

If someone attacks DoW's me and I take their capital, but no other cities, will i still be considered a war monger?

 

[smallfish]

Yep. Lesson learned the hard way. Stealing worker is not free anymore. Thus if you start next to CS lover like Siam, you might think twice before doing so. The good part, the hate decays over the time.

Unfortunately, the "you declared war on friends" modifier sticks the entire game.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Unfortunately, the "you declared war on friends" modifier sticks the entire game.

Even if they stop being friends?

 

[smallfish]

Even if they stop being friends?

Nah, playing as Pacal, I was on a continent with Austria and Aztecs. I made DoF with Austria before I DOWed her (maximum sword rush). From then on, even on other continents I haven't yet met, the modifier stuck with the Maya like a curse.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Nah, playing as Pacal, I was on a continent with Austria and Aztecs. I made DoF with Austria before I DOWed her (maximum sword rush). From then on, even on other continents I haven't yet met, the modifier stuck with the Maya like a curse.

Well, backstabbing your friend is one thing. Perma penalty for that makes sense. Attacking AI that is other AI's friend but not yours is a different one. I wonder if they keep hating you if you attack their friend even if they became enemies later.

 

[JamesCivFan]

I don't think you get a penalty for Declaring War on a friend of an AI, you get a penalty for denouncing them though.

 

[Becephalus]

Huh? Since when is that an exploit? Been possible like forever?

And historically its been pretty common to attack other cities/states to get slaves, hasn't it?

It is lame because A) The AI never does it, and B) it would never work against you. No need to penalize the AI more than you need to. That way it doesn't need as many bonuses.

I would rather play on Emperor/Immortal and not exploit every loophole and AI mistake, than play Immortal/Diety and use every single little programming hole to my advantage. I want to play the game, not "play" the game, if you get what I mean.

 

[Infiltrator]

Yea I noticed the AI is really pissed at me for kidnapping workers, but I can't help it, I really need them.

In response, I eradicate each and every AI to the root, just for consistency's sake.

 

[falcon7xx]

What does everyone do when the AI is getting lands around your Civ? I do not want to attack because i will get the war monger title.