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The American President is facing impeachment.

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Bast, May 30, 2008.

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  1. CharmzOC

    CharmzOC Chieftain

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    I couldn't agree more Jolly. After shafter is merely pointing out that there are credible opinions on the other side and now has three people on him about it, comparing him to the same kind of people who condemned Gallelio. Honestly i think we can all agree that something is going on, the causes however rmain unclear. Some people believe humans are chiefly to blame. Some still believe the jury is out and wish to wait for the evidence. Do not demean them for this. Especially when After Shafter has presented credible evidence supporting his case. More than I can say for the other three who simply believe that anyone who disagrees with their point of view is an ignorant moron. I'm fine with a discussion on global warming so long as minds are open and i refer to my previous post on the matter.
     
  2. BSmith1068

    BSmith1068 Deity Retired Moderator

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    That makes perfect sense. I have never played with that option, so I didn't even think of it.

    Thanks!
     
  3. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    Just because the American media has made political issues and/or talking points of these events doesn't mean that people from other parts of the world can't look at these events and see them in an entirely different context than you do.

    Do you really think the first thing that comes to my mind when I hear "global warming" is in any way related to the U.S. ?
     
  4. Ormur

    Ormur Prince

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    I think more about countries like Bangladesh when I hear about global warming. 200 million refugees from a country that will be flooded isn't very pretty.

    Like any scientific theory global warming being caused by humans isn't infallible and should be questioned and researched by scientists. However while every other article or report in the media is skeptical about global warming, peer reviewed articles by proper scientist are in much more agreement with global warming being caused by humans and having to be stopped. That suggest a certain bias in the media.

    Besides it's the politicians that are dragging their feet in climate issues, most of them would prefer to do nothing while the scientific community mostly believes that it is no longer a viable option.

    Of course I hope they're all wrong but we can't afford to take that chance.
     
  5. Titler

    Titler Chieftain

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    21
    Text bolded for hypocritical intolerance and prejudice. Hey... people who do X are ill educated! Now watch me do X, but it's ok, because I'm against Y who I say do X!

    But Jeebus almighty, not ANOTHER pointless Global Warming thread; I'm sorry that the world is evolving so far away from the political beliefs you cherish so much (or in the case of you South Park Republicans (google it), what you simply hate) that even computer games are expressing the unacceptable truths of reality now... but that IS the reality, and if you can't handle it in a computer game, then Gawd help us when most of you get to voting age... because this level of anger and ignorance is where we get most of the stupid, stupid laws from.

    And I'm sorry that those of you who claim to be scientific don't understand that Science, by it's very nature, is inquisitive and often adversarial; That there'll ALWAYS be someone arguing another theory. That's where we get exciting new theories from. The question is, how many of them are there, how reputable are they, and how replicatable are their claims? So no one is denying that intelligent people can disagree on the theory behind Global Warming, but just because you can cherry pick data and find intelligent people arguing for alternative theories doesn't mean the Scientific Consensus hasn't already been found. Because it has. Here it is;

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change
    http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/306/5702/1686
    http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=167

    Now please don't insult either my or your intelligence by simply going back and finding more people dissenting. Let's say there's 100,000 scientists worldwide trained in the respective fields... and 1% of those disagree with the accepted theory; with those numbers you could post 1,000 different view points to back you up. We'd be here all day wading through all of those. But it's still only ONE PERCENT hold that view.
    And these days, any asshat with a basic education thinks he's an expert; Most of whom don't even know how to make a coherent argument (see above), let alone read sources, evaluate bias and compensate for error, both in the source and in their own perceptions of it... and these untold millions pf "experts" are ALL posting online. You can find tens of thousands of people arguing for ANYTHING.
    But the science behind Global Warming has been tested and tested again. The verdict is in. If you can improve upon it, or find absolutely shattering evidence one of it's main tenets is wrong (proving Carbon Dioxide isn't a greenhouse gas would be one way) , go for it. Then submit it to peer review. Then get the vast majority of the scientific community to accept your proofs as replicatable and the new consensus. THEN you'll have a valid proof. Until then you are just another online spod cherry picking data to claim your personal beliefs are fact. They aren't.

    Oh, and this time it's a thread which complains about real world politics in general, and one that ropes in Al Gore in again too? Let's get the internet meme out of the way;

    http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp

    The couple who run Snopes are Republicans by the way, but the old style, honest Republicans, who don't just argue any old thing because it's politically convenient in the search for power. And they point out that A.) Gore was being deliberately misquoted, and B.) Anyone who knows about the early internet acknowledges Gore was highly influential in it's development.

    But Gore! Bad! Bad Man!

    I'm not even going to go into the ridiculousness of the arguments about Environmentalism as a Civ Civic, because of the selective disconnect between realising that NON of the Civics match precisely with their real world counterparts; and the phenomenal ignorance that it takes to not realise that Green parties are getting elected worldwide with increasing frequency, and green politics in general is a major part of most politic machines these days... even your American politics. Look, here's John McCain, from his own campaign website, paying tribute to them;

    But Environmentalism! Bad! Grrghh, raarrghhh...! Why is this in my game?!

    Gah, I can't believe I've been suckered into arguing politics on a gaming board again. But why are you even playing a game called "Civilization" if you don't want to come into contact with politics? Why?
     
  6. Magma_Dragoon

    Magma_Dragoon Reploid

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    Environmentalism is good until you get ecology then I just build recycling centers and switch to free market.

    Using less energy doesn't cost money, it saves money. More efficient cars SAVES MONEY. Better insulation SAVES MONEY. A wind generator on the roof of a building SAVES MONEY. Compact florescent lightbulbs SAVES MONEY. The real scam of global warming is the people who say it will cost huge amounts of money to fix. Those are the most ******** people ever. GM and Ford are fighting against emmissions standards so they can keep NOT SELLING SUVs. They will bankrupt in 3 years. If congress bails them out, I will never pay taxes again. I'll move to Scotland.

    Whether you believe in global warming or not doesn't matter. You don't have to believe in gravity to fall down. Have fun eating each other when the rains fail over the breadbasket, or getting nuked by ultra ultra pissed starving Asians and Africans who have nothing to lose. I think I'd survive well in a post apocalyptic environment.
    I gotta escape from this opinion thread!
     
  7. Jolly Rogerer

    Jolly Rogerer Prince

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    Bullsh!t. I read every post in the thread and gave it due consideration.Then I wrote a satirical post about the irony of someone claiming to be making an argument when in fact they are simply repeating dogma, and then likening their opponent to those who persecuted Gallileo. I'm not refusing to consider an argument when one is made.

    I'm also not going to pretend that I think X exists because someone else insists that it's self-evident, whether X is God or humankind tipping some sort of global climatological balance. I, like most reasonable people (including climate scientists), have the humility to admit that I don't know. But I've seen this same sense of panic before, with the same dogmatic surety from many of the same people.

    In the 1980s it was nuclear power that was the bogey man. I didn't see any rational reason to avoid nuclear power then, and if it had been up to me we wouldn't have sent millions of tons of coal into the atmosphere in the couple of decades since. Even for those of us who are agnostic about whether:

    A) The earth is warming in a way that is different than it was in the past

    B) That the actions of man have caused this difference

    C) That by taking certain actions we can reverse this process

    Can agree that air pollution sucks. Let's get rid of it, and while we're at it let's quit killing the oceans too. But we have to get beyond the level of trotting out competing dogmas in order to build a consensus for any sort of rational action.
     
  8. BSmith1068

    BSmith1068 Deity Retired Moderator

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    @ Titler - Amen Brother. :goodjob:

    :rotfl:
     
  9. AfterShafter

    AfterShafter Deity

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    Oye, this is becoming too much work. In my previous looks, I found articles talking about petitions signed by tens of thousands of scientists, groups of hundreds of specialists in this area disagreeing with it, more than a few peer reviewed articles... But now a guy is claiming it's 1%'ish of the relevant scientific, that the science is proven, etc etc, and frankly, there is no way to disprove that because... Well, it becomes he-said she-said.. Frankly, I don't really care enough to come here, post links for all of you. Google is a powerful tool - use it to look up both sides of an issue, not just the one you believe in already.

    See you in a while guys. I'm on vacation in three hours... Leaving on one of those greenhouse gas spewing airliners. Have a good one ;)
     
  10. eewallace

    eewallace King

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    Okay, mea culpa for baiting the "South Park Republicans" and starting the Al Gore stuff here, but you may notice that I did accurately state that he said "created," not "invented." (And yes, I'm old enough to have actually been watching the news back then. I do remember what he said...)

    This thread is getting hopelessly political--I'll get my political laughts from keith Olberman, so this is my last contribution to this.
     
  11. ainwood

    ainwood Consultant. Administrator

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    Moderator Action: Thread closed.

    If you want to discuss real world politics,
    1.) Go to the Off Topic forum.
    2.) Do it in a manner that's more polite than the last page or so here.

    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
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