The Ancient Mediterranean MOD (TAM)

Glad you like the MOD.

The Silk Road problem is known and will be fixed in the next update. I'm just a little busy with university and work right now.

It's true that the last era is unfinished. As you can see as well, I already worked hard making up technologies in an era of downfall and decay. A corruption-reducing building is a good idea, but historically counter-productive: corruption was widespread and was one of the many causes for the fall of the Roman empire. It was no longer manageable.

Civil Defence as a small wonder is a good idea.

Barricade fortress is good, too. Should be earlier, though... the Limes or Hadrian's Wall were built in the imperial age.

Yet another palace? Maybe... But it'll be very expensive.

The berserk could work as a converter. The goths "picked up" many tribes along their way.

Egypt is usually pretty strong, but it can't compete with Babylon, which is the superhero in every single game (unless defeated early, which is easy for a human player neighbouring them). I guess I will remove even more bonus grassland from around there: big but weak.
 
Can't resist adding a few thoughts. I'm feeling lazy at work. Once again, don't take these overly as criticisms. I like the mod. That's obviously why it's on my mind.

First off, I don't know that you necessarily should tone down Babylon. I found it pretty exciting to discover an empire almost twice the size of my Roman Empire when I thought I had the game well in hand. It added an element of surprise that was pretty cool.

Of course, the fact that only Rome has barracks until late game really does change the military dynamics of things. It is an interesting choice. I think I like it. But it does make other empires into paper tigers to one extent or another.

Regardless of the Babylon issue, my two cents would still be to strengthen Egypt's starting area a bit. They were by far the weakest civ in Africa and the Near East in my two games. (Although from your comment I gather this isn't always the case.) It seemed strange historically to see Israel taking over Egyptian cities. (No offense anyone. I'm speaking of the period only.)

The other thing that might be cool would be to add some uber military units to the Goths and German tribes at one of the late game techs. I don't remember your tech tree well enough. You may have already done this at the tech giving heavy cavalry (someone gets knights although I don't remember who.) The thought of the barbarian hordes streaming down from the north into a decadent empire at the very end would be both historically accurate and also would add some excitement.

Another idea:
What about a "Temple Mount" wonder under theology? It could be a crusader or fanatic producing wonder. Cursaders or fanatics pouring out of the mideast would also add some late game excitement. You could put down a "temple mount" resource near Jerusalem and have the wonder require the resource to be built. (Have it appear around the time of Solomon's temple if you like). This would make it less likely that Rome would control the wonder. Well, I think it'd be cool, anyway. ;)

I'd also add another late game naval unit. Although to be honest, I'm already a bit uncertain what role the fire galleys fill. They seem statistically similar to the galleot (sp? not sure) except the galleot can transport four units and has a higher defense. I never built a fire galley. I'd increase their attack power but slow them down. Something like that.

One other thing you might consider is that no naval unit can carry a late game army which requires five spaces (if armies are improved per the small wonder adding one space to your army). You may want another transport or to add a space to the galleot.

One last thing. I don't remember ever getting the option to trade communications with other civs. (Perhaps I have just forgotten.) You'd definitely want to save it for the end game (another addition to the last era's tech tree!) to slow down the tech race, but it surely has a place somewhere.

Speaking of the tech race, it went VERY FAST in my emperor game. We were done by about 100 A.D. Part of that was trading like mad and part was Babylon cranking away like there was no tomorrow. I might increase tech costs a bit if possible.

Arrgh. I should get back to work. Thanks again for the mod.
 
I'll strengthen Egypt a bit, but not too much. In my games they always rocked, whereas Rome didn't. I haven't played much lately, though (not with the last four versions or even more...).

I was thinking of a stronger unit for the Goths and so on, and don't they have the super-aggressive Migrant now? Maybe they should get a wonder that produces one every 5 turns... let us call it "Overpopulation" until we find a better word.

Fanatics... why do you wish to put them in? I'm not aware of any rise in religion at the time. Islam came in the 600s, which is past the MOD timeline

I'll look into the ships issue. Any idea for a migration ship? My problem is that there was historically no change in naval technology until the invention of the Cogg and the Caravel (500 / 1000 years after the MOD). Maybe a longboat for the northerners?

Maybe we should get an army-carrying naval unit in the late game then... Longboat and...?

Trading communications is definitely disabled for good. It's completely unrealistic. You can trade maps and KNOW that there's someone at the other edge of that empire, but you still have to send an emissary there... Comm trading is a bad, bad thing taken over from SMAC.

So far everyone complained that the tech rate is too slow. I guess you're quite a good player (if you managed to finish a TAM game at emperor... I struggle at Monarch!).
 
First off, I appreciate your compliment as to my playing skills, but I wouldn't overestimate them. I'm not above a cheap reload if things don't go my way. I know that's bad form, but what can I say -- I like to win :D (prepares for scorn).

As to the tech race going fast, it was all about trading for me. Knowing the civ starting locations from my Monarch game, I made it my TOP priority to contact other civs right off. I sent out warriors and archers and contacted the Etruscans, Gauls, Iberians, Goths, German Tribes, Macedonians, Trojans, Dacians, Scythians, Huns, and even Kolchis pretty fast. Several of the seafaring nations followed not long after as they tried to plant cities in the boot of Italy (Mycaene, Minoans, Phonecians, and Carthage). I built my own tiremes and met Egypt, Israel, Babylon, Sea Peoples and Berber (unknown to me, many of the middle eastern civs had been knocked off by Babylon at this point). By the second age I had contacted the majority of the civs out there.

Playing tech broker made things a lot easier. By the time I entered monarchy I had over 10,000 gold and had financially crippled most of the other civs. I also had a ton of foreign workers. I was completely compulsive about checking my trade options every turn and always traded for workers if they were available (min price 233 gold). The money wasn't doing me any good before monarchy anyway.

For perspective, when I first contacted Babylon, I owned the whole of present Italy and had just sacked Mycaene. I was feeling pretty secure about my frontier in Europe and was happy about my prospects for conquest in the Peloponesian peninsula. Then I got Babylon's territory map. They covered almost all of Asia up to Turkey. It was a big purple mass of doom almost twice my size -- a very memorable moment in my all-time gaming history. I'd spent a ton of effort securing The Great Library as my only wonder, but now realized that since Babylon was running away alone in the tech race, it was pretty much useless. The lack of diplomatic options killed "rogue nation" strategies. It was a pretty scary moment, but in a cool way.

Anyway -- maybe you're right about comm trading. The tech trading it leads to definitely throws things a bit out of whack. It's a nice perspective on how the game should be played anyway.

You're right about fanatics/crusaders. They really are out of the game's timeframe. Oh well. It was just a thought.

And eventually I'm ignorant about the state of Mediterranean naval technology through this time period also. (I like history, but I'm more of a WWII and British history guy.) I just thought from a gameplay perspective it might be nice to have a bit more diversity. The large army transport issue isn't a huge one either, but it is a small stumbling block. If I have a chance I'll try to look something up and see if there's an obvious answer.

I like your Goth wonder idea. Anything to simulate the northern barbaric hordes. But if you plan it for the late game, you may not want to put it too far down the tech tree. The Goths may never make it there.

Anyway... I'm sure you have your own plans for this mod independent of my suggestions. Thanks again for your work. I recommend it highly to anyone out there interested in a good game.
 
Hmmm... Just looked around quickly. I found the following:

The Romans lacked the skill of other maritime powers such as the Greeks and Carthaginians and had to resort to technology for advantages. The traditional naval tactic of ramming wasn’t abandoned, but the Roman ships were fitted with a corvus to accommodate their strengths in land combat. This movable boarding bridge enabled the Romans to transform naval combat from ramming and sinking to boarding with marines, capturing and plundering. In its initial stages this new combat style enabled the Romans to win some overwhelming successes against the Carthaginian fleet, but the added weight of the corvus made their vessels less maneuverable and seaworthy resulting in heavy losses with violent weather conditions.
Click to expand...

Of course, that's speaking of the period around the third punic war (146 BC). Not exactly end game. Still you could consider an enslaving ship like the privateer. Perhaps limit it from ocean squares since the corvus made their ships less seaworthy.

The article I read noted that the Vandals become a sea power when they sack Carthage, but didn't particularly mention any new technology.

Don't know if that helps or not. Anyway, I have to get back to work.
 
Temple Mount" wonder under theology? You could put down a "temple mount" resource near Jerusalem and have the wonder require the resource to be built. (Have it appear around the time of Solomon's temple
Click to expand...

Solomon's temple IS today's temple mount ;)
 
Yes, but the "Temple Mount" isn't Solomon's Temple to many people. It's an important distinction. Some religous groups deny that Solomon's Temple was ever there. As I'm sure you know, the problems deciding the future of the "Temple Mount" is one of the issues that consistently brings down peace talks between Palestinians and Israelis. My purpose in saying "Temple Mount" was to identify the site without associating it too closely with any one religous tradition.
 
I've been playing the Mod alot and really like it. I usually play on Monarch with 16-20 civs. Whenever Babylon is included, they become the powerhouse in the middle east. In some games I leave them out and a whole different dynamic develops.

I agree that establishing communications as early as possible with as many other civs is the only way to keep up in tech. I adjsuted the turn length in my games to help keep the tech speed closer to reality and it works pretty well (see earlier posts for the details). Also I fixed the Silk Road problem and usually win that way. The AI tries to win that way and in one game Babylon kept sabotaging my production to keep me from getting the marketplace I needed or the final stop on the Road. I had to keep a spy in Babylon to do counter espionage and eliminate their spies in my capital.

I think the Macedonians should have a different UU. When I played them my golden age came about 5000 BC. I had sent an early expedition to Italy and in the process of stomping Rome I started my GA. I had maybe 3 cities.

It is an excellent Mod, and lafter playing it, epic civ seems pretty plain.
 
I'm on my way to bed but I had a thought for fleshing out your last age. Under the tech "Decadence" create the city improvement "Pleasure Palace." Make it REALLY cheap (same price a temple maybe?) It's benefit should be SEVERAL happy citizens (three?) But it comes with the penalty of a stiff increase in corruption (30% perhaps?) I think this would fit well with the theme of the last age.

EDIT: I was thinking, the problems with balancing this improvement is that only your major city centers near your capital city will likely need it. A percentage-based corruption increase may not be significant there. You may want to either make it inexpensive enough that it's a cheap alternative to other happiness-producing buildings in less developed areas, or assume it will only be built in your largest cities near your capital and give it a LARGE corruption penalty.
 
Hi folks!

Recently I have found this mod and just love it. Now, with Ballistic it come s a new unit of a...er... archer (exact name doesn't come to mind), which has a normal and an elite version too. Now it seems that the two are exactly the same (cost too!), except that the latter is stronger on attack value - is that a bug? Why would I have the normal then?

When can we expect new update of the mod with correct Silk Road?

To Thamis: Congratulations! And to all others who helped this geting this far! :)
 
Thanks! :)

Ah, and until next update - can I correct the Silk Road problem by doing something with the editor? If yes, how? (I am somewhat a beginner with editing games, mods)
 
maybe even today? :) that sounds promising! :)
What other changes, fixes will be in that? Ok, ok, I can wait... (hardly though)
 
Thamis, just a question out of curiousity: To what extent do you consider this mod finished, complete - as to what you had in mind at the beginning of making it? Or as what you see it now in mind?

I just began to play with it and cannot yet say how much finished and polished it is - but from what I have seen this far - it is very, very fine.

Oh, one thing: could there be nice ancient pictures for all nations for the leaderhead? Even to replace the animated original CIV3 ones...
 
The mod is pretty much complete, after two years of work, input, reword and even further input. I will only fix minor things now.

The next task will be a version for Civilization 4, which of course will take a while...

If you wish to speed up my process, tell me the perfect source for the debate on newspaper ownership and its influence on journalism (which is what I'm currently working on...). How annoying.
 
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