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The Ancient Mediterranean MOD

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by thamis, Nov 29, 2005.

  1. thamis

    thamis King of Kish

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  2. dreamcrusader

    dreamcrusader Chieftain

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    looks good. Im going to try it our soon
     
  3. Zuul

    Zuul Mod lister!

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    I loved this mod for Civ3. :) *thumbs up*
     
    Jcw1991 likes this.
  4. woodelf

    woodelf Bard

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    Loved it as well, even with the horrendous lag during late game on my machine. Hopefully it'll run like a dream in Civ4.
     
  5. EdCase

    EdCase Defender of the Faithless

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    Oh good...the mod that still had me playing [civ3] until the day before [civ4] arrived.
    Expect input ;)


    Edited to add.....this is one mod i would ENJOY making units for..hopefully the SDK will let me.
     
  6. Conqueror '91

    Conqueror '91 Crimethinker

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    Just to get to this point in a mod is an accomplishment, in my opinion. I could never even reach this stage! This was in my Top 5 mods for Civ 3, and I'm looking forward to the Civ 4 version:thanx:

    p.s. i like your choice of civs, too; lydia, scythia, and getae sound really interesting.

    Is the map you used a little out of proportion in favor of Spain and France? Asia Minor looks kinda small. Probably not, just something that caught my eye. Good luck again!:goodjob:
     
  7. sapon

    sapon Chieftain

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    Thamis,

    Your MOD is my all time favorite, I'd rather play your mod than the regular Civ game. You should make a game based strickly on Ancient strategic civ building or get in on the design team at a software company.

    Cheers
     
  8. thamis

    thamis King of Kish

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    Great! I need units! All you need to make units is a good 3D program, like Maya. The SDK has nothing to do with the unit graphics.
     
  9. thamis

    thamis King of Kish

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    I doubt that it's out of proportion significantly. I used google maps and converted the map directly from there. There shouldn't be a more than a few tiles difference.
     
  10. thamis

    thamis King of Kish

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    I'm starting to think about the colour scheme for civilizations and their flag symbols. I'm in favour of more elaborate flags than simply two-coloured ones (no problem in civ4), so feel free to suggest.

    Colour suggestions for civilizations.

    Rome:
    Red / SPQR flag

    Greece:
    Light Green / no change

    Phoenicia:
    Orange / trireme flag

    Etruria:
    Brown-ish / vase flag

    Gaul:
    Dark Green / golden celtic knot on green flag

    Iberia:
    ???

    Persia:
    Cyan / Zoroastrian Eagle flag

    Germanic Tribes:
    Dark Blue / bear or wolf paw flag???

    Getae / Dacians:
    ???

    Carthage:
    Dark Brown / (will use the symbol from carthage mod, no clue what it is)

    Babylon:
    Light Green / winged bull flag

    Scythia:
    Grey / horse flag

    Hittites:
    Purple / ???
     
  11. Dragonlord

    Dragonlord Fantasy Warlord

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    Great! I loved this Mod in Civ3!

    I'll wait a while to DL - still playing the vanilla game at the moment - but this will be one of the first mods I try!

    :goodjob:
     
  12. Jonny211

    Jonny211 Chieftain

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  13. Spirit_Viriato

    Spirit_Viriato Chieftain

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    First, sorry for me English, I know as native two languagues ( Spanish and Catalan) but English is difficult to me.

    This mod seems to me very good because I'm adict to the history of the Pre-Roman cultures.

    For my knowledge of the civilization that you called Iberian, I must to correct a bit of things and aport new ideas. I hope that this ideas can help you and do a better MOD.

    "The first in being conquered, the last ones in being dominated"

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In my opinion the first thing that you should change is the name of the civilization: Iberian. This name are incorrect. In my opinion the correct name that you can put are Celtiberian Tribes ( In spanish Tribus Celtíberas). ¿The reasons? This:

    - In Iberia land, never the inhabitants were united, were a lot of tribes, with internal conflicts among them, a lot of them with no-connection of the other tribes ( remember that Spain is the second bigger country ( the first are France) of European Union and (Spain+Portugal=Iberia) are more bigger than France. Part of this tribes is the cause of the great diversity of actual Spain ( for examples : the Basque tribe or Astur (Asturias) tribe or Lusitans ). A legendary tribes are : Turdetanos, Lusitanos (in English i supose that Lusitans) (another name for actual portuguese people are Lusitanos), Basque tribe, Astur's tribe, Ilergetes ( in Catalonia), Vaccuos, Vettones, Arevácos ( the people of Numantia) and a large etc...

    Is clear, that Iberian ( A name that the Romans gave him to the inhabitants of these earth, obvious did not know the peninsular reality as they could verify in the following wars.. ) are incorrect.

    - The area code \"celt \" to whatever it has studied pre-Roman History seems obvious to him. Celtas has been the only strangers in all the history of the Iberian Peninsula that has been received with a relative enthusiasm, not with the opened arms, but either with bellicosity as here were (and still it is) habitual. This gave rise to a fast occupation of territories and the mixture of original inhabitants. This map represents the Iberia of then (so that you have left clearer).. Celtas=Celts, Iberos=Iberian, Celtiberos=Celtiberian. http://www.galespa.com.ar/historia_espanha_celtibera.jpg

    The importance of celts in the south of the Iberian Peninsula was very important, thanks to them, was able to develop flourishing industry of the metal (concretely of copper) that got to compete by all Mediterranean, being destroyed later by the Phoenicians. With the passage of time near 80% of Iberia, that is to say, everything except the most Eastern part of this one, mixed of a way or another one with celtas, can be said then, that all the different tribes who inhabited the Ibería at that time, had Celtíbera blood, in special all the north of the Peninsula.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The second point are the characteristics of the civilization:

    Spiritual, communicative.


    These are the characteristics of Spanish Empire that does not have anything to do with celtiberian them, these were along with the Gauls and the germanics tribes the most warrior civilization of all Europe. In fact with the great ones you develop of Viriato (the celtíbero leader for excellence), or Numantia, of you develop them of the tribes of the North, the resistance of ilergetes etc... arrived at its moment to make shake the Empire Roman, incapable to conquer a territory with its powerful army..

    In my opinion the real characteristics are warrior and extremely millitant and violent. A comunicative celtiberian is a big joke. The other characteristic is industrialist civilization ( The powerful arms of the cavalry and infantry were very famous in the old world. )

    -----------------------------------

    It is guessed right in initial technologies to maintain the fishing, to add the hunting, and if possible military one..

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The third point: The leader.

    In this point there is no possible error, the image of Viriato is necessary to replace the image of Isabel Catholic (I believe that in English or Latin Viriatus is called to him) (speculating on a little, and with the image that has always occurred in Spain and Portugal on him, it is the image of viking with the long black hair, very similar to which exhibits Mel Gibson in Braveheart)..

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The four point : The colour.

    In my opinion the perfect colour is a dark green, symbol of the peculiar nature that there is in this country, country of valleys and pines, adorned everything with multiple mountains that cause that it is very easy the ambushes..

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The five point: The Units.

    The conqueror it's not valid.
    It is considered historically that the celtiberan infantry has been of the best ones of the ancient world, the facts therefore they prove it, when wars finished to pacify Spain (there were parts that never was conquered and never pacificates others absolutely), sons of Iberia, quickly were used like mercenary troops in the armies of the time: Carthaginians and Romans (being the main base of these). At the time of implementing this fact in the game, I should to give an ample advantage them in attack (they were a species of bersekers), an advantage in movement (always wear very slight shields similar to the Gallic style ) and a great penalty in defense:due to his bellicosity they brought into the battle without taking care of never type of discipline [ often rebelled themselves with his superior ], which repelled at the time of making formation battle serious..

    "As far as the arms some celtiberian use slight shields as the Gauls and other circular (...) Their swords have double edge and are made with excellent iron, also they have daggers of a handspan of length. They follow one practices special of manufacture of its arms because they bury you laminate of iron and they leave them thus, until with the course of the time I oxidize has eaten the weak being left but resistant parts but (...). to the made weapon of this described form short everything single what can find in its way, because there is shield, helmet or no bone that can resist the given blow the extraordinary quality of the iron (..) Diodoro of Sicily 5, 33.

    "The celtiberian consider an honor to die in the combat and a crime to burn the corpse of a soldier thus dead, because they think that its soul overcomes to the Gods of the sky when devouring the yaciente body the vulture" Silio Itálico "Punics" 3, 340,343.


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The six point: The cities.

    It is almost one obligation to put the most important advantage in defense to the city of Numantia..

    "The resistance of Numancia in front of the Romans is a universal symbol of the fight of a town by its freedom.."


    A list of Celtiberian cities :

    Numantia ( Legendary),Uxama, Termes, Intercatia, Bracara, Asturica, Segede, Palancia, Osca, Ilerda, Calagurris, Intercatia, Ocilis, Segontia, Bilbilis, Mundobriga, Contrebia, Volux, Nertobriga, Clunia, Burado, Atacum, Vareia.


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  14. thamis

    thamis King of Kish

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    @Johnny: Thanks, I know the page, that's where most of the research for the Dacians in TAM-CIV3 came from. I don't see any symbol apart from a head, though. How about a wolf?

    @Spirit_Viriato
    Thanks for your comments. I am very aware of most of these things, as I have done extensive research on the Celtiberians for TAM-CIV3. Let me quickly reply to a few points:

    - I know Celtiberian is more correct, but I chose Iberian because it is a) the Roman term, and I usually go with Latin and Greek terms in TAM due to the fact that our main target audience is European/US players, and b) Iberian is shorter and more easily recognizable than Celtiberian

    - Leader & traits: I know it's Viriato, and he will be in the final version. This is really the first draft of TAM. The Scythians have Elizabeth as their leader now, so... I will change this. The traits I will think about once I have included all the civilizations that I want to include. I will decide the traits according to a) historical accuracy and b) gameplay - no duplicates.

    - Units: TAM will have completely ancient units and a completely ancient tech tree, so the Conquistador won't even exist in the final version. Right now the Scythians have the Redcoat as UU, which is obviously silly.

    - City list: Thanks for that, I will put that into the next version.
     
  15. Spirit_Viriato

    Spirit_Viriato Chieftain

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    - You can put then "Iberian Tribes" ( is a term recognizable and more or less historical correct).

    - Remember when you develop in mod the diplomacy, the friendship between Gauls and iberian people (in the north have the same routes of scape and share war information about Romans) and of the total no-friendship between almost all the tribes (always it has traitors in all the sides) and Rome.

    The east iberian tribes ended up maintaining a friendly attitude with the Greek colonies in Catalan coast (present Emporion ( Empuries) [ actual place of summering for tourists ]) and one actidud totally hostile with the Phoenicians, who devastated the south of Spain imponiendo their commerce.

    - What is your opinion about the charateristics ? I posted it in the other post.

    - Apart of the infantery, in the Balearic Islands ( Ibiza, Mallorca etc...) were a unit in the past very famous of a type of archers.

    - The religion in ancient Iberian were druisdim and primitive cultures with the sun or the moon as central.


    And the mod map are incorrect, the river "Ebro" the east river of all, don't born in this these mountains, born in Cantabria, left of Basque Country.
     
  16. wolfman1234

    wolfman1234 Chieftain

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    I agree with Viriato in almost all that he has written.

    Two points:

    -The balearic light infantery, used in almost every roman army, were the balearic slingers i think, not archers.

    -And most of spanish mediterranean coast were not much influenced by celts, more by greeks, phoenician (Carthago) and native civs like Tartessos.
     
  17. thamis

    thamis King of Kish

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    - Iberian Tribes sounds good
    - I'm not going to pre-set any diplomacy in the main mod. It's going to be an epic game without any pre-set cities, wars, etc. I might make scenarios later.
    - To me any characteristic sounds good. Militaristic... ok, but that would apply more to other civilizations. There are civilizations who waged very extensive aggressive wars, they deserve the militaristic trait. Industrious? Umm... the Celtiberians didn't build any wonders of the world, so I don't see industrious as justified.

    It's really hard to define any traits for small civilizations of which we only have the records of the conquerors.

    Regarding religions: Druidism will be one of the researchable religions.
     
  18. thamis

    thamis King of Kish

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    Please check the first thread for updated goals and aims of this MOD, to clarify some points. I think some of you don't know what I'm aiming for.
     
  19. Spirit_Viriato

    Spirit_Viriato Chieftain

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    Wolfan1234:

    1.- Yeah, is a different type of archer, like the instrument that use in the bibble David with Goliath, i don't know de name in English.

    2.- I put the map before, except the east coast, all Iberia were Celt.

    3.- Tartessos lived in the South of the Spain near Gades ( actual Cadiz) near of Gibraltar if you are English.

    Thamis:

    Indostrious in the area of war, all the minery and copper were very famous. Iberians have a lot of preocupations to war and to eat, they didn't do any wonder, as you say xD.

    Correct the map of the river Ebro, take this map, it doesn't born in the Pirineos, it born in Cantabria near ( in the left) of Basque country.

    http://www.icold-barcelona2006.org/img/mapa_tour5.gif

    PD: I'm lookin Iberian Flag, it's very difficult.
     
  20. thamis

    thamis King of Kish

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    I'm not going to place any cities except for the capitals, so there is no need to clarify who lived where. :)

    I will fix the river Ebro.

    Regarding civ traits, I will distribute them once I have all civilizations set. It is more important not to have any doubles than to have correct ones. It's quite vague anyway.
     

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