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The Art of Diplomacy

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Vonreuter, Jan 27, 2006.

  1. Vonreuter

    Vonreuter Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    154
    So what are the best ways of getting friends (in CivIV)?

    Usually the other peoples hate my guts. I may have one, and a maximum of two, civilization(s) who are pleased to me, but the rest are always fuming. In the current game I'm playing (on Prince), I managed to avoid war until the 1800s, when I attacked Gandhi. I had two other civs on my continent, the Indians and the French, and with religious expansion I managed to keep them both at Please or Friendly. However, they both started warring with each other, and got upset, because I was trading with them both (naturally, that's why they were my friends in the first place).

    In the end, when Gandhi looked like he would lose to Louis XIV, I attacked with my Infantry and took three cities to get some compensation for losing my good friend. Gandhis civ crumbled shortly thereafter. This made Louis even more Pleased, and, in the end, in the 1900s, I managed to create my first Defensive Pact. It's a little late in the game for that, but I'm still pleased.

    However, the downside is that every other civ in the world hates us! I always pick the wrong friends! I've tried winning over Peter, who is in good terms with the French, but even giving away technology does not seem to affect the situation in any way. I've also given free resources to some civs, but there seems to be no change, neither short-term nor long-term. Changing to Free Religion does not help either, so I might as well keep Louis as close to me as possible and wait for the inevitable war. Friedrich is already Annoyed and unwilling to talk. He will soon launch an invasion, I'm pretty sure about that. (The first time ever I've seen a civ unwilling to talk, but not at war with me!)
     
  2. aviator99_uk

    aviator99_uk Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2002
    Messages:
    185
    Location:
    Bath UK
    Prince level.

    Its not so much absolute like/dislike that seems important its the relative like/dislike that seems important.

    Example:

    Message : So-so becomes Theology and Vassal ..... Oh Oh

    Look at the diplomacy screen.

    So-So has decided to go to war, guess who? Even if you are well in the green with him if all the others are more in the green then you are the target. Save the game and experiment with what you can do to protect yourself diplomatically, it is possible.

    In general the AI will seemingly only go to war (if it decides to) with whoever it likes the least, even if they are pleased with that civ. There doesn't seem to be a threshold at which you can say you are safe, or in danger if someone else is disliked more (providing there is a common boundary). I'm pretty sure I have also seen another AI get involved in an existing war by being 'asked' by an AI, (but they don't seem to try hard), again irrespective of your standing with them (although they become fuming during war) and 10 turns later you can sue for peace with them and go back to pleased.

    The real question is; what triggers an AI to go to war? Because it doesn't necessarilly correlate to like/dislike.

    Aviator
     
  3. petertr2000

    petertr2000 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Messages:
    54
    Seems like the AI just wants to win the game - if that is at the expense of a friend, then so be it.
     
  4. ElJojo

    ElJojo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    72
    Diplomacy is made in sucha a way that you can't be friend with everyone. And you need common ennemies if you really want friends. So on continents, before everybody makes contact with the other continent, even if everybody share the same religion, you may have to take sides.
    And as it is likely they won't have the same religion on the other continent, they won't like you.
    So diplomacy is tricky and as been said, the AI wants to win so your 2000-years old friendship won't resist. Would a human player restrain from attacking and winning ?
     
  5. Mug

    Mug Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2006
    Messages:
    5
    I generally would never accept defensive pacts offered by the AI, as it means that they want your help defensivley, because they feel they are about to be attacked, so you can get thrown into wars you do not want. Saying that however, in my current game I have a defensive pact with Frederick on a different continent (the one with my greatest rival) that he offered me because I am ahead in techs and just ahead in power (although on a unit-to-unit basis I have better troops, just not as many) and so at some point I might want to have a foothold on that cont. and a defensive pact is the perfect excuse to go to war.

    Regardless I feel that diplomacy in Civ IV is not extensive enough. There should be options to put my own techs/resources into a "Won't Trade" catagory, so that the AI can't ask me for it, and so I don't have to get a -1 denying them "help". I also feel there needs to be more diplomacy options, such as creating protectorates or satellite states, in which you have limited control over production.
     
  6. fung3

    fung3 Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2005
    Messages:
    127
    Location:
    51st. State, UK
    A few points to bear in mind regarding diplomacy.


    IMHO:

    The various leaders behave very differently concerning diplomacy and war.

    For example;

    Togugawa has been my neighbour in many games. If you have a city beside his border without adequate defence he will attack - no question. This is especially so if there are quality resources in that city. He is very much an opportunist.

    Isabella hits the war path very readily if you have a state religion that differs from hers. Conversely, if you share the same state religion she can become very friendly.

    Montezuma seems to hate everyone. However you can make a solid friendship with him by assisting him with one of his wars.

    Mansa Musa is generally a friendly sort, as is Cyrus.

    Choosing to run with a rivals favoured civics helps enormously with relations.

    Once you have met everyone study their favoured civics and assess who your potential friends are going to be. Two good allies is usually enough.

    Once you have established a couple of buddies avoid trading with the leaders they like least, this can be assessed using the 'Relations' screen on Foreign Advisor.

    In general Spiritual leaders take exception to 'falling under the sway of a heathen religion' more than the others.

    Aggresive civs will smell weakness and move in for the kill. A stout defence protects against this.

    A weak military leads to poor bargaining strength at the diplomacy table, whilst a strong military allows you to sucessfully demand tributes.

    When in the later game, wth a good lead established and a good modern military, relations with the other civs cease being important.

    Bottom line is choose your friends carefully and respect their likes and dislikes.
     
  7. Qitai

    Qitai .

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2002
    Messages:
    1,177
    Location:
    SG.MY.TW.US
    To choose who to ally with, click on the portrait of the individual AI and the screen will show you how many AI are on good terms with this AI. If everyone is happy with a particular AI, then this AI is probably a good choice for a ally as it will not piss of anyone by being on good terms with this AI. Conversely, if everyone hates a certain AI, feel free to hate him too.
     
  8. Randall_Flagg

    Randall_Flagg The Evil One

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    611
    Location:
    Joshua Texas
    Much like what was said, you can not be friends with everyone. I play huge maps with 10-12 Civs, And i try to pick 3 civs to get good with, they will normlay be the same religion, if they have not found a religion, change them to the one you follow. the top 2 ais, unless they are the same religion refuse to trade with them for ever. you will find that the people you built has friends will hate the ai's you do not trade with, not always of course but alot of the time.

    But, never trade with all civs, it will lead to alot of wars as well as sure fire loss in diplo win. And that is my prefered win.
     
  9. AngryPants

    AngryPants Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2005
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    297
    Without a them, there can be no us.
     
  10. Viper Daimao

    Viper Daimao Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2006
    Messages:
    27
    One way I found to use diplomacy in the game I'm in, is if a Civ starts constructing spaceship parts (in my case, india), instead of getting someone to go to war against them, pay the spaceship civ to go to war against someone else (spain). This has effectively halted their technology dev. Also, give the other civ (spain) some money and tech to help even things out. This has stopped india from developing more, while I conquer arabia.
     

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