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The barbs on Monarch

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Rast, Mar 13, 2006.

  1. Rast

    Rast Warlord

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    Been playing some Monarch games, haven't won any yet, the Barbarians are just kicking my rear! :blush:

    They start showing up about halfway through mining and become unmanagable before I even finish researching BW, my civ just can't handle archers coming every turn when all I have to fight them with is warriors. I can't beeline any faster than am I already, I'm not sure how I'm supposed to deal with it.

    I post sentries as best I can but usually I only have 2 or 3 warriors when they start spawning, which isn't anywhere close to enough to watch all my backcountry.

    What am I doing wrong? I went back to Prince just to check and I won resoundingly (knocked out 3 civs before 1 AD even), so I know I need to change my strategy but I'm having a hard time thinking of what I could do differently.
     
  2. mutax2003

    mutax2003 Rider of China, 4-3-3

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    You need to start off researching mining->bronze working, then get your copper hooked up fast. If you are spiritual, then you might want a detour to find a religion first. If you have no bronze, then you will want to beeline for iron working. In the rare case that you have no copper or iron, then you will definitely want archery and horseback riding, or construction if you have ivory. In the meanwhile, post some warriors as sentries on high defensive tiles around your cities to stop barbs from spawning near you. Try it, hope this helps.
     
  3. Andrei_V

    Andrei_V King

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    Research BW and The Wheel. If you have Copper, build Axemen.

    If not, research Animal Husbandry. If you have horses, build Chariots. They are real good against warriors/archers, just be sure to attack on open.

    If neither Copper nor Horses, research Archery, then Iron Working.
     
  4. linchpin

    linchpin Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2006
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    I'm in the same boat. Getting close to BW and the barbs are everywhere. I get rushed by archers and I have 2-3 warriors. Founding another city is out of the question and unless I'm lucky enough to get copper in my capital i'm hosed.

    SOP: W->W->W->Worker->worker->settler

    BW->Pottery->ABC's

    but i never get any further. I cant seem to settle a city AND keep the barbs off my back much less hook up copper. :cry:
     
  5. mutax2003

    mutax2003 Rider of China, 4-3-3

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    The reason I advocate for iron working is that you might also have an aggressive AI or two nearby, in that case, it would be pretty suicidal for your chariots to go up against spears. If no AI civs nearby, chariots might be okay for a while, until barb axemen/swordsmen show up, then you are going to have trouble. Your archers can hide safely in cities, but some/most of your improvements will be pillaged, and it will be pretty dangerous for your workers with barbs running around your cities. It will takely more turns to then tech to horseback riding as compared to tech straight iron working research directly. Also part of my reasoning is from playing multiplayer, in MP game, a decent player with metal will basically defeat someone with only horse, spears and pikemen simply dominate mounted units.
     
  6. Andrei_V

    Andrei_V King

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    If there are too many barbs, it basically means that there is no AI nearby. Iron Working is important, but kinda expensive. As for Animal Husbandry, you usually need it anyway as one of the worker techs.
     
  7. kamigawan

    kamigawan Warlord

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    Yup, I have similar troubles - one thing I noticed was that at Monarch in particular, the barbs will attack you regardless of score. On prince level or easier, they'll lurk around outside your cultural borders for a while until you become the score leader before moving in for the kill. Of course that makes sense since on higher levels it's rare to ever be the score leader during the time period that barbs will be posing a threat.
     
  8. mutax2003

    mutax2003 Rider of China, 4-3-3

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    Rast, if you want to, you can post a 4000BC game that you are having trouble with, and we can compare notes.

    BTW, playing a game with raging barb setting/highland map would be good practice if you think are getting ran over in a normal type game. You think you are having barb trouble, you don't know the real meaning of that phrase until you try "raging barbs" setting. Only masochists and megalomaniacs should bother applying. ;)
     
  9. Andrei_V

    Andrei_V King

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    You can fight barbs with warriors. The general rule: never attack, and if a barb approaches to your unfortified warrior, run away. Do not step toward a barb, since you won't have time to fortify.

    So, move your warrior a little outside your cultural borders, find a forest or forested hill, and fortify there before any barb approaches. If a barb attacks, your warrior must be fortified already. If your warrior survives but damaged, and another barb is coming, retreat, and move forward a reserve. You should always have one or two warriors in reserve.

    Promote your warrior to Woodsman I and II. Woodsman II is real cool, since your warrior can move 2 tiles while in forests.

    Here is some statistics from my latest Inmortal game (isolated start on a continent) by 700AD. I built 8 warriors, 8 chariots, and 7 axes. They killed 19 warriors, 15 archers, and 7 axes. My losses: 6 warriors, 3 chariots, and 1 axemen.
     
  10. LordOfTheDrinks

    LordOfTheDrinks Chieftain

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    On Monarch, with raging barbarians on:
    I usually sacrifice some growth and shields early to work on high commerce tiles to get BW and the Wheel faster. Ok, it's somehow easier since I play with Elisabeth a lot. :) And, if I have bronze I DROP my research to 0% (!) for several turns and UPGRADE one or two of my warriors to axmen, (or at least keep the cash in case of need).
    ...Let 'em come now! :D
    If there's no bronze you'll need archers. No way you will survive to Iron Working otherwise - at least not with raging barbarians.
     
  11. smurfish

    smurfish Chieftain

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    I think barbs attack regardless of score..when you see them lingering around the borders, it juz means that it's still early in the game (depending on difficulty) for the barbs to start crossing borders.. (I remembered reading discussions on this somewhere).
     
  12. Andrei_V

    Andrei_V King

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    Here is how it looks like with raging barbs on Inmortal. Even Copper in the fat cross does not help too much. :) It seems like you need Archery ASAP, no matter what.
     

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  13. mutax2003

    mutax2003 Rider of China, 4-3-3

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    Did you chop for an axeman right away? I find there is a brief window of opportunity to get my defense up before the barbs arrive on "raging barbs" setting. Basically after I fend off the first wave, I will do all my exploring, fog busting, settler-escorting with axemen. Anyway, that was on immortal, the OP's game was on normal monarch level, so he wouldn't have the same kind of barb trouble as your game.
     
  14. Andrei_V

    Andrei_V King

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    I tried to, right after I built the mine. In a couple of turns a barb approached, and I had to move the worker away.
     
  15. Rast

    Rast Warlord

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    Thanks for the tips everyone. I was finally get a real Monarch game off the ground, using the Incans. Financial, Aggressive, and an early UU that gets a bonus against archery units.

    The UU by itself was enough to keep the barbs and Alex (later) off my back till I got swords (didn't start with any copper around, made things real interesting for a while). There's four people on my continent (Me, Ghandi, Alex, and my old friend Monty), just hit the Medieval period, Ghandi and I are teaching Alex and Monty a lesson in manners, I've broken even on tech and am first on score but it's still too early to turn on the cruise control. So maybe this will be the game I finally win :)
     
  16. smurfish

    smurfish Chieftain

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    good to hear that! hope you also get to learn new strategies from this monarch game. there's so much to learn and explore in CIV, but even more :thumbsup: threads over here to read and help!!
     
  17. Fetch

    Fetch When in doubt, reboot.

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    Dang. :eek:
     
  18. Toshiro126

    Toshiro126 Warlord

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    You don't need axemen. You need tanks!!! :eek: :eek:
     
  19. Mutineer

    Mutineer Deity

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    Actially it is my believe fog busting is a key.
    I play and win consistently on Monarch level. My useal game starting strategy is tend to be different from advised in this forum. I tend to go

    and build 2 or even 3 explorers in order to explore as mach as posible and grab as many huts as posible. Even if I do not have hunting, my first tect will be hunting.

    So, Useal sequence. Build sity, start research hunting. set production to warrior.

    Hunting come befor warrior end. switch to scout. City grow to 2, optimyse city for 0 grow (work 2 plain forest ties).

    At that stage city can crank explorer every 3 turns. Get amount explorers I want out finish warior and start worker. Warrior going to some forest hill out to most probable barbarian location and fortifyed there.
    Research wise After hunting I do 1 more worker tech depends on special resources in town and aviability and then Mining/bronse. worker tech is noce because I have city size 2, working 2 ties.
    Production useall after finishing warrior -worker-worker-warrior-setler.
    Setler or worker could be partially chopped, but size 2-3 city with special resources improved actially can produse them resonably fast itself.

    It is very nice to know all land around you in details early on, meat all AI there fast and get a lots of huts. I believe it is more then compensate for sligth delay in development.

    In addition after explorers finished with exploring they are going to hills around my civ on sentery fog busting duty. They can not fight anything exept animals, but they do reduce barbarian amount by doing fog busting all around my civ and give me early warning about incoming barbarians.
     
  20. Willem

    Willem Deity

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    Yes, everyone's in such a hurry to get BW but Archery is a much cheaper tech to get and Archers are cheaper to build then Axemen. And they don't need any resources. Plus with all the bonuses they get, they're naturals for defense. Put an Archer on a forested Hill and not even a Barb Swordsman can take him down, usually. They do get lucky sometimes. And they're ultimately much better at city defense since they get the Garrison promotions and Axemen don't. The only advantage Axemen have is on flat ground outside the city.
     

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