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The battle system about this game?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by shinsei, Jul 20, 2007.

  1. shinsei

    shinsei Warlord

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    Ok,after i spent pretty much sometimes in this game,i'm kinda of curious about the battle mechanic.

    1:How do you take cities effectively?i found that in this game,sieging a cities is incredibly difficult,especially in early games against greek hoplites,they even easily fend off my stacks of swordsman.

    2:How does defense bonus from cities works?is there anyways i can get rid of it?as i said above,it sacrifice too many of my troops just to destroy one hoplites that stands on city walls.Do they also get the defense bonus if they were they one who jumps out to attack me?let say if i surrounded them and were gathering troops for a single strike hoping to take it down in one turn,but they keep on sending force within the city out to kill my newly gathered unit.

    3:How does this defense/attack works?cause things never went the way i expected.and would be very questionable about the battle system after you have your tanks getting trashed by some riflemans,or can't figuard out why does it makes pikeman a better defensive unit while my knights has same 3 def but 4 atk,or how does it makes longbow man the better attacker while knights has the same atk but with better speed(thats one of the reason why i build pure knights in early middle-age for both attacker and defender)

    4:Sometimes i notice that even when i'm marching on road i still suffers terrain penalties,is it because i'm marching on the enemy's territory?

    5:How does Airplant works?i found they are completely useless due to their limited effects and terrible accuracy.
     
  2. A Revolutionary

    A Revolutionary Beating the Drums

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    1. Use bombardment (catapults, trebuchets, etc.) to weaken the units before you attack. Make sure you have enough units, both for attacking and bombardment purposes. You might also want to use a fast unit like horsemen after your bombardment but before the swordsmen. I say this because they can damage the enemy and if they are losing they can retreat.

    2. The defense bonus for cities increases the defense value of a unit defending the city. Say you have swords and are attacking a city (size 7) that is on grasslands. This is the same 50% defense bonus as a town size 1-6 that has walls. The 3 defense of the hoplite is multiplied by 1.5 and thus has an actual defense of 4.5. The only way to get rid of this is if your bombardment destroys the walls, or you starve the city down to a lower size where they won't get the population defense bonus. This is done by pillaging and occupying tiles around the city and waiting for the population to drop. There is also a chance that your bombardment could kill some of the city's population.

    3. Every military unit has an attack value and a defense value. The attack value is the one used when that unit is initiating the battle. Likewise, the defense value is used when a unit is being attacked. There are various defensive bonuses that will increase the defensive value if they apply. These include the unit being fortified, if they are in a city, improvements in the city, if the attacker is attacking across a river, and the terrain where the defender is standing.
    Combat Calculator- This can give you the percent chance that you have of winning a certain battle.

    4. If it's in someone else's territory, it's their road. You don't get the benefits of moving along a road inside another civ's borders, unless you have a right of passage agreement with them.

    5. I'll assume that you are talking about airplanes. I don't have a lot of experience with fighters and things like air supremacy missions, so I'll let someone else address that issue. Bombers can be used just like artillery units. Their purpose is to soften up the enemy's defenses before your ground troops arrive. Also like artillery, they are best when used in large numbers. You can never have too many bombers. However, bombers have lethal bombardment unlike artillery. This means that all artillery can do is get enemy units down to one hitpoint. The bombers can actually kill units through bombardment.

    I hope this is helpful.
     
  3. shinsei

    shinsei Warlord

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    About #5,it was mistyped,"airplanes" and why can't i never have too many bombers?is there a limit?

    About #2,do they also get the defense bonus if they were the one who initial the attack while standing within the cities protection?

    Oh,its very helpful about the artillery tips,and the combat calculation,thank you.
     
  4. A Revolutionary

    A Revolutionary Beating the Drums

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    5. I say this because if you have enough bombers, they can absolutely devastate the enemy's units before your ground troops arrive. Bombers can provide invaluable support in modern warfare.

    2. No, they only get the defense bonus if they are being attacked. If they are initiating the attack, they are attacking and therefore they do not receive the defense bonus.
     
  5. shinsei

    shinsei Warlord

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    Thank You!
     
  6. Zibong

    Zibong Chieftain

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    It should be noted that Bombers will only be able to kill another unit IF you are playing PTW or Conquests. If you are playing CivIII Vanilla (i.e. the 'plain' version) Bombers do not have lethal bombardment. While still good, their effectiveness pales in comparison to Modern Armor.

    As a general rule of thumb, if you're playing vanilla and have to choose between building a Bomber and a Modern Armor, build the MA. If you're playing PTW or Conquests, build the Bomber.

    From the sounds of it, though, if the OP is still having problems with Hoplites, then he's a LOOOOOOONG way from Bombers...
     
  7. shinsei

    shinsei Warlord

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    Thanks for the additional informations,i'm playing conquest though,and with the description about how airplanes was suppose to be used,i would love to have modern armor+bomber combos.

    Although i'm having trouble with hoplite in beginning,but i decided that never attack greek in ancient age,only until i have knights.
     
  8. Zibong

    Zibong Chieftain

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    Bomber-centric strategies never rely solely on bombers. Mech Infantries and Radar Artilleries play an equally important role.

    Bombers have an incredible bombard strength of 12. It may not compare with a Mech Infantry's defense of 18, but considering only Radar Arties and Stealth Bombers have higher bombard values, that's great. Use a stack of Radar Arties to 'red-line' your enemies. After your Arties have used their shots, finish them off with your Bombers. Then just use your Mech Infantries to waltz in and capture the now-empty enemy town.

    The advantage to this bomber-centric strategy is that your forces are at VERY little risk. Radar Arties don't put themselves in danger when they bombard, and Bombers are only in trouble if the AI built good anti-air (which they usually won't). Naturally, you're going to need a lot of Radar Arties and Bombers to get the job done but by the time Bombers become available, you should have a productive core of cities that can build your force.

    If you aren't in the Modern Era yet, Infantries and Arties will serve your needs quite well. Make sure you have some Cavalry or Tanks on hand, too, as you'll probably need that extra mobility.

    Natrually, a fleet of STEALTH Bombers work even better. The difference is that they are extremely expensive. By the time you can build a sufficient number of them, you probably have the game won, especially if you were continuously throwing Bombers at them in the Industrial Era. :goodjob:
     
  9. shinsei

    shinsei Warlord

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    Thank you.

    So in industry ages,your main forces are focus on the infantry and artillery?

    The real issue is about the cavalry,because by the time i can build them,its almost at the end of the middle age,so rifleman is almost avaliable,and cavalry is obsoleted because they can never upgrade anymore unlike the longbows,so would it be worth of building a mass of cavalry at the pre-industry time?and dismiss them after i get infantry?it seems a waste to me,so in my games i almost never mass produce them,just some few upgraded from the previous knights,and go straight to mass produce rifleman.
     
  10. shinsei

    shinsei Warlord

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    Oh by the way,how am suppose to use bombers effectively?having workers across the ocean(if its a continental war)to build the airports?or use carriers instead?
     
  11. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    It's definitely worth it to build cavalry. Don't just upgrade a few knights to them, though. And don't disband them after you get infantry. Cavs are 6.3.3. Infantry are 6.10.1. So they're equal in attack strength, but cavs are 3-move units. You can kills lots of units with a stack of cavs. Build them by the dozen.
     
  12. gmaharriet

    gmaharriet Ancient Crone

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    I agree with this 100%. In addition, if you are on either a continents or pangea map, and if you plan on lots of warfare, try beelining to Military Tradition, leaving the top half of the tech tree for later. You can pretty well wipe out the other civs on your land mass before worrying about boats to carry your cav armies across the ocean. This doesn't work as well on archipeligo maps where you need boats much earlier.

    And even cavs can destroy riflemen and infantry pretty well if you have sufficient artillery support and the railroads to move them where you need them. Build LOTS of cavs and LOTS of arty.
     
  13. A Revolutionary

    A Revolutionary Beating the Drums

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    Use slave workers if you can to build airfields. You can also use airports if you want to. I generally don't use carriers simply because they are slower than rebasing the bombers to either an airfield or airport.

    I also agree with the above posts that cavalry can definitely be worth your while.
     
  14. shinsei

    shinsei Warlord

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    Got it,so cavalry is worth the deal until tank is avaliable right?

    Whats the unit's speciality in the late-industry&modern age?

    Units like guerilla&TOW infantry seems useless compare to infantry&mech infantry.same goes for the paratrooper&modern paratrooper.how can you use these unit effectivly?i almost never use them,and build pure tanks+infantry,some marine for the amphibious purpose.
     
  15. A Revolutionary

    A Revolutionary Beating the Drums

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    Cavalry are worth it until you can build tanks.

    Build lots and lots of tanks. These can be accompanied by artillery and supported by bombers. There isn't a huge need for infantry once you have tanks because the tanks have 8 defense anyway to the infantry's 10. (Not to mention the difference in attack power and movement). However, I would keep the infantry around to defend your cities and eventually upgrade into mech infantry once you get Computers. Likewise, once you get Synthetics you can upgrade all of your tanks into modern armor. Guerrillas and TOW infantry are a "poor man's" units. You would only want to build them if you lacked and couldn't trade for the resources required by other units. (rubber, oil, aluminum) Guerrillas/TOWs don't require any resources to build. I don't really use paratroopers, so I can't really answer that question. I only use marines if there is a one tile island that the AI has built a city on.
     
  16. shinsei

    shinsei Warlord

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    whats up with the Guerrilla/TOW's bombard ability?is it useful?
     
  17. Gosnork

    Gosnork Warlord

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    Paratroopers (I mean both normal paratroopers and modern paratroopers) can be great weapons if used properly. If you have a few carriers (I normally build fleets containing 5 Carriers, 4 F-15s and 16 Stealth Bombers, these fleets will be stationed at naval bases throughout the world and consolidated when war breaks out) and you are invading a nearby enemy, look at their cities. Normally they will be in "rows". A few cities will be in reach of your Modern Armor on the 1st turn, then the second "row" will normally be about 2-3 turns away for your Modern Armor. This "second row" is what the paratroopers are for. On the 1st turn of the war, drop in about 4 paras per city on this row. Then bomb each city on the 2nd turn until all the defenders are down to 1 HP, and use the paras to take the city.

    This allows you to let your Modern Armor heal after their attacks, and then use the roads (which are now in neutral or friendly territory) to move out and attack the 3rd row of cities. Thus you end the war quickly, which is a must for Democracies. Also after a couple of wars you will have quite a few Elite Moder Paratroopers, which makes this tactic even better.

    I also use this tactic to steal cities with key resources or luxuries (that arn't accesable to my marines or modern armor) and then use it as a base for my paras once I've got a happy enough civ to launch some full scale wars.
     
  18. Aceman101

    Aceman101 Emperor

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    They can't actually bombard as you might think, however, they can bombard if they are defending. Units that have bombardment ability but have '0' range have a special ability called defense bombardment. Thus, they have a chance of bombarding the enemy if they are attacked. But there has to be a stack of at least 2 units (Not necessarily both defense bombardment units). IMO defense bombardment is very useful and many people underestimate the TOW's potential usefulness. Bring a few TOW Infantry or guerrilla's with your stack of troops and you will have the major advantage of defensive bombardment.

    I find that the AI is pretty formidable with their anti-air tactics, even in Regent level. They don't really build many flaks/Mobile Sam's but they do build a lot of fighters around their city's and put them on air superiority, I learnt it the hard way.
     
  19. MAS

    MAS Deity

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    Not only do cavalry have 3 move, they have retreat! The chance you lose one in an attack is less than the chance you lose an infantry in an attack, even though their attack rating is the same!

    Because they have 3 move, and tanks have 2, cavalry even remains useful after tanks, depending on the strength of your opponent.

    Use a small stack of infantry to defend your stack of artillery. And to defend newly captured towns, wounded cavalry, etc from counter attack, (if the enemy has reals and cavalry himself then countre-attacks becomes something to worry about)

    Guerrilla/TOW's bombard only works in defense, it has a chance to knock off 1 hp of an attacker before the actual combat begins, so it increases the chance the Guerrilla/TOW wins the battle. This makes them better defensive units than they appear to be at first.
    But their main advantage is that they don't need resources, and can thus be used in what is known as a poor mans army.
    Their existence also helps the AI because the AI likes to keep around and upgrade its units. In vanilla they may still have loads of swordsman in the modern age. But in PTW and C3C they can at least upgrade these units to a more modern variant.
    If you have the proper resources however, I'd advice to just build the higher quality units instead.
    Artillery also bombards defensively, so if you have a stack of cav's/infantry/arti then its rather pointless to mix Guerrillas with them.

    If you do happen to have a couple around, they are not completely useless, as these units still have some specialized uses they can cover. But its not something to make a stable part of your military.
     
  20. shinsei

    shinsei Warlord

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    how do you drop your paratrooper to the second row if you air base is half way across de continent?or do you mean carriers can also act as air base for paras?
     

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