The Best And Worst Allies

[The Almighty dF]

I've been working on my triangle diplomacy strategy lately and I figured it'd be nice to have a thread on the subject: What leaders not to friend, and which to friend.

In my experience-

Worst leaders to friend:
Napoleon, Augustus, Shaka, Alexander, Ragnar, Hannibal, Julius, Mehmed - Will invade you, no matter what. I've had Mehmed as happy with me as possible, so happy he's still happy -while invading me-, and he's still at war with me. And still refuses to talk.

And then, for seperate reasons:
Lincoln, Sitting Bull, Tokugawa, Darius. These guys won't betray you, but good luck getting their help. Darius at least will trade techs, but good luck getting him to assist with a war, even against his greatest enemy.

Best friends:
Hatshepsut, Ramses, Zara Yaqob, Mansa Musa, Isabella, Saladin. I've -never- had issues with these guys. They're always anxious to trade, and they're pretty easy to keep happy.

So, to everyone else. In your experience, who are the best and worst leaders to keep as friends?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It's so situational. Zara can often be brought along, but frequently he's going to often be the #1 threat in the game to win space or culture, so you don't necessarily want to do something that helps him early on.

Sitting bull is oft-hated by warmongers and befriending him often hurts your favor, AND he poisons water. Constantly...but he also distracts those warmongers heavily and is more peaceful @ cautious than even Gandhi (he doesn't die easily to AI either).

Augustus doesn't declare @ pleased and isn't impressive on the unitprob side...not sure why you group him with the likes of nappy and shaka.

Basically anyone who 1) you can get to a disposition they won't declare and 2) is not a major threat to win the game themselves is a good candidate for an "ally". In some games you can do such a thing with guys like Ragnar, and in others propping up too-much land Musa is a bad deal. It's best just to adapt.

 

[itg]

On average, I find the zealots to make the best friends. It makes diplo really easy when you're practically at friendly from religion alone.

 

[Framesticker]

I HATE taking Mansa or Zara as allies. I found these two, along with a few select others (like Hatty or Darius for an instance), to be the only AIs (on Emperor at least) that are an actual threat to WINNING the game before I do rather than just disturbing me from doing that myself. I like getting guys like either of the American or the Chinese leaders - they're usually good in the tech race yet not pulling forward enough to be a credible threat.

 

[NihilZero]

Cyrus. Signs defensive pacts at pleased, is loyal, doesn't make himself so much of a target that you become one too by associating with him, is rarely likely to become a runaway himself as his teching is only so-so but he is usually an asset in a fight.

The religious guys are generally dependable if you are on their side. Saladin is solid, but more often than not I find myself killing him rather than befriending him as he tends to take land I want and provoke me with espionage.

 

[madscientist]

I've been working on my triangle diplomacy strategy lately and I figured it'd be nice to have a thread on the subject: What leaders not to friend, and which to friend.

In my experience-

Worst leaders to friend:
Napoleon, Augustus, Shaka, Alexander, Ragnar, Hannibal, Julius, Mehmed - Will invade you, no matter what. I've had Mehmed as happy with me as possible, so happy he's still happy -while invading me-, and he's still at war with me. And still refuses to talk.

Agustus aint so bad but you really need to add Cathy in this group, in fact none of the Russians are trustworthy at all. The Khans can be tough also. Also I found Cyrus and Hyuna can be trouble late game. Also Charlemagne can be real trouble.

Oh, and Monty seams to be off this list, I have never had a game where I can trust him throughout.

And then, for seperate reasons:
Lincoln, Sitting Bull, Tokugawa, Darius. These guys won't betray you, but good luck getting their help. Darius at least will trade techs, but good luck getting him to assist with a war, even against his greatest enemy.

I find Washington more of a stick in the mud than Lincoln who is fairly easy to sway if not much of a warrior. Abe seams to give you the most for a trade as opposed to Justinian who is one of the cheapest leaders in the game. DArius is a pushover.

Best friends:
Hatshepsut, Ramses, Zara Yaqob, Mansa Musa, Isabella, Saladin. I've -never- had issues with these guys. They're always anxious to trade, and they're pretty easy to keep happy.

So, to everyone else. In your experience, who are the best and worst leaders to keep as friends?

Isabella, Saladin, Justinian, Zara can all be trusted if you have the same religion and in theocracy although I have had issues with the first 2 when first adopting the religion.

 

[The Almighty dF]

It's so situational. Zara can often be brought along, but frequently he's going to often be the #1 threat in the game to win space or culture, so you don't necessarily want to do something that helps him early on.

Sitting bull is oft-hated by warmongers and befriending him often hurts your favor, AND he poisons water. Constantly...but he also distracts those warmongers heavily and is more peaceful @ cautious than even Gandhi (he doesn't die easily to AI either).

Augustus doesn't declare @ pleased and isn't impressive on the unitprob side...not sure why you group him with the likes of nappy and shaka.

Basically anyone who 1) you can get to a disposition they won't declare and 2) is not a major threat to win the game themselves is a good candidate for an "ally". In some games you can do such a thing with guys like Ragnar, and in others propping up too-much land Musa is a bad deal. It's best just to adapt.

Maybe I just have bad luck, but Augustus declares war on me every game he's in.
Sitting Bull though... god I hate him and his espionage. He's usually my choice for a war just so I don't have to worry about his spies.

The Zara things makes me wonder. Is it possible for the AI to actually win a cultural victory?
It just seems like it involves too much thought for the AI to do, moreso than the other victories. Not to say cultural is the hardest, it's just... I can't see the AI correctly using the cultural slider, focusing on three cities for culture, etc.

 

[i_imperator]

Issy can be dangerous if your not in her religion and she hates you. Bismark can be aggressive, i have seen him take on stalin (who had vasals) and defeat him till he vassaled to bismark. Washington is a decent ally also, especially if you gift him tact nukes! Toku is another guy who most people can't get along with (unless you gift him a city or something). Hayuna Capac can be annoying also.

 

[Dostojevski]

I always liked to befriend Shaka, for some reason in most my games where he is present he starts a bit away and is easy to befriend due to getting same religion(i have been lucky). With Shaka at my side doing war is a lot easier.


My most hated civs and the ones I really do not want to befriend are Gilgamesh and Tokugawa both seem to have something againt me in every game I play. And while Toku is easy if you can just tech a bit to have supperior units I find Gilgamesh to keep up pretty good with the teching. No matter what I do they both find ways to challange and annoy me, and Tokugawa is really hard to get loved by.

 

[The Almighty dF]

I always liked to befriend Shaka, for some reason in most my games where he is present he starts a bit away and is easy to befriend due to getting same religion(i have been lucky). With Shaka at my side doing war is a lot easier.


My most hated civs and the ones I really do not want to befriend are Gilgamesh and Tokugawa both seem to have something againt me in every game I play. And while Toku is easy if you can just tech a bit to have supperior units I find Gilgamesh to keep up pretty good with the teching. No matter what I do they both find ways to challange and annoy me, and Tokugawa is really hard to get loved by.

You've never had Shaka betray you? Huh.

 

[NihilZero]

Yes, the AI can win culture. Sometimes you'll see them turn up the culture slider - usually at the worst possible time leaving themselves vulnerable to attack, hehe.

 

[Ataxerxes]

Another vote for the zealots as allies. Most of them will missionary-spam and you'll find yourself in the midst of a love-fest.

My argument against Mansa is a strange one. He'll tech trade with you even if he hates your guts and doesn't attack you anyway. Better to have a friend who's helpful as a friend and dangerous as an enemy. I usually like Zara as a friend.

If you try to get Shaka, Ragnar, Napoleon, etc. as friends there's a problem. They're dangerous if they're only pleased and it's hard to get them to friendly. They also don't spread their religion so sometimes you can't get to be the same religion, which usually makes being Friendly impossible.

 

[Akar]

I've been working on my triangle diplomacy strategy lately and I figured it'd be nice to have a thread on the subject: What leaders not to friend, and which to friend.

In my experience-

Worst leaders to friend:
Napoleon, Augustus, Shaka, Alexander, Ragnar, Hannibal, Julius, Mehmed - Will invade you, no matter what. I've had Mehmed as happy with me as possible, so happy he's still happy -while invading me-, and he's still at war with me. And still refuses to talk.

And then, for seperate reasons:
Lincoln, Sitting Bull, Tokugawa, Darius. These guys won't betray you, but good luck getting their help. Darius at least will trade techs, but good luck getting him to assist with a war, even against his greatest enemy.

Best friends:
Hatshepsut, Ramses, Zara Yaqob, Mansa Musa, Isabella, Saladin. I've -never- had issues with these guys. They're always anxious to trade, and they're pretty easy to keep happy.

So, to everyone else. In your experience, who are the best and worst leaders to keep as friends?

Hatshepsut is a jerk and never wants to be my friend

 

[lymond]

Problem with Hatty is as nice as she is, she is always generally the most hated AI in the game. Very easy to keep her friendly, even with denying her stuff or in a different religion, but she can be useless otherwise since you pizz off everyone else if you trade with her.

I find Charlemagne to be a rather pain in the arse. Many times if he's my neighbor and we are not on great terms he will bombard me with spies - even at please.

Cathy is certainly the most untrustworthy ally in the game.

 

[i_imperator]

Cathy is certainly the most untrustworthy ally in the game.

Unless you manage to get her into a permanent alliance, if you have that option on.

 

[budweiser]

I have made good use of a vassalized Shaka and have had good luck befrinding Izzie. SB is also worthy but likely will get you into fights.

 

[Ataxerxes]

Problem with Hatty is as nice as she is, she is always generally the most hated AI in the game. Very easy to keep her friendly, even with denying her stuff or in a different religion, but she can be useless otherwise since you pizz off everyone else if you trade with her.

I find Charlemagne to be a rather pain in the arse. Many times if he's my neighbor and we are not on great terms he will bombard me with spies - even at please.

Cathy is certainly the most untrustworthy ally in the game.

Good points to remember. Some of these AI's you can make friends with, but they'll be your only friend. Dangerous.

In addition to Charlemagne, Sitting Bull is famous for trying to poison your water almost every turn. He's another pain - it's gotten so bad I have an irrational need to kill him first if he's on my continent.

I'm glad Cathy was finally mentioned. She can be bribed into war against you even if she's been at Friendly for ages. Legendary backstabber. Oddly enough, I find she makes a very good vassal. Techs pretty well for trading and is one of the few vassals who will actually give military assistance in a war.

 

[Stephanovitch3]

I find that Hatty,Roosevelt, Qin hueng and Cyrus to be the kindest leaders and that Julius Caesar gangs up with someone else while im tech rushing at the start and ive abandoned my military for technological gain so i end up toppling to caesar (and normally Elizabeth) around 100AD

EDIT: I also forgot to say that Tokugawa is a stubborn mule throughout the game he will never give me open borders till i have no cities and crippled soldiers

 

[Ataxerxes]

I find that Hatty,Roosevelt, Qin hueng and Cyrus to be the kindest leaders and that Julius Caesar gangs up with someone else while im tech rushing at the start and ive abandoned my military for technological gain so i end up toppling to caesar (and normally Elizabeth) around 100AD

EDIT: I also forgot to say that Tokugawa is a stubborn mule throughout the game he will never give me open borders till i have no cities and crippled soldiers

Some other nice leaders - Mansa Musa (technically, he can plan war at pleased), Lincoln, Brennus, Gandhi and Asoka. About half of the AI's won't plan war at pleased. Julius Caesar is fairly dangerous, although not as bad as some (Shaka, Ragnar come to mind). Try to have one city just building military - not libraries, universities, etc. - just basic needs and military units.

I'm surprised Tokugawa even gives open borders in that situation. Very stubborn mule. He hates everybody and eventually his stubborn nature causes him to fall behind.

 

[itg]

I think it's interesting that so many people have had trouble with Charlemagne. He values both religion and favorite civic very highly, making it pretty trivial to get him to friendly if you want to. In my experience, he's a middle-of-the-road techer and he can defend himself reasonably well, both of which are qualities you usually want in an ally. He is pretty annoying as an enemy, though. He's almost always either my best friend or one of my first targets.