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The best conquest leader?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by stebbinsd, Jun 19, 2014.

  1. stebbinsd

    stebbinsd Chieftain

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    I've got Civ4 arriving in the mail this Saturday, and I'm excited.

    I've been watching a few LPs, playing the demo, and checking out GameFAQs, while I wait for the game to arrive.

    Tell me... is Montezuma (the Aztec leader) a good leader for a conquest victory?

    I'm thinking that, because his first trait is "spiritual," that would assist me in gaining allies for when I go to war (as well as allies to trait war materials, such as iron and technologies, with), and the "aggressive" trait would also help out tremendously when I'm actually attacking cities.

    His starting techs of hunting and mysticism seem to compliment those traits nicely. Having mysticism right out of the gate will enable me to found lots of religions early on, giving me access to allies early on. The hunting compliments his aggression, while at the same time providing me with a food source right out of the gate.

    My plan is, once I've settled my capital, to begin researching polytheism (founding hinduism ASAP), followed by archery, giving my capital some decent defense.

    By this point, my first worker should be finished, and I would begin working on an archer to defend the city and switch my research over to "mining," so can have access to copper and iron as soon as I can... though I may switch to masonry if I see a stone quarry off in the distance, so that I can build a wall around my capital.

    If I can meet a neighbor who I can spread Hinduism to, I'd like to get him to teach me animal husbandry, so I can have horses and food.

    I think you get the idea of where I'm going with this.

    Does this sound like a viable strategy for my early game?

    EDIT: Btw, I'm planning on having a random world layout and climate, so I don't know what terrains are in store for me. After all, it's the dawn of man! I'm leading a tribe of about a hundred people; how do I know what the world is like?
     
  2. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Nice satire, not bad :b
    (for the very small chance you are serious..then you watched some newbies playing)
     
  3. stebbinsd

    stebbinsd Chieftain

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    Ok. Would you mind being HELPFUL and actually giving SUGGESTIONS?

    Moderator Action: Please read the forum rules concerning language use. Our forums have a PG13 standard for language, please help us maintain this. Removed your explicative.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  4. Strickl3r

    Strickl3r Prince

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    Monty is not a good leader for fast conquest, His starting techs are bad and that slows him down. The aggresive trait is also not very good, other traits are just better(even for war), preferably stuff that gives you faster attack dates or helps you with expanding, like creative, financial, expansive, philosophical

    But he has the best(or one of the best, i guess that's open for debate) unique building in the game, which helps a lot when using slavery to get units and buildings.

    Spirituell is a good trait and it comes in handy with the diplomacy. However it is usually not required to get some trades going.

    Founding ''lots'' of religions doesn't make any sense at all. Forget about religions or use the oracle to get Code of Laws, which then gives you a religion. But it is not worth it to spread your own religion in the game. Shrines can be captured later in the game, but having one for yourself is not a gamebreaker.

    If you want a smooth conquest with early game war i would recommend to play a creative civ like hatshepsut or willem(start with some war chariots or Horse Archers and later use construction/engineering or any kind of gunpowder units to finish the map).

    However on almost any difficulty you can usually play what you want and get away with it, if you follow certain basics.(build enough units when you attack, watch out for your economy, work improved tiles, etc.)
     
  5. elmurcis

    elmurcis Emperor

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    I really would suggest to start with basics... there are too many "not right" things so you should clear your mind and go step by step.. start with understanding how food, production, commerce works, that you 1st need worker techs (agriculture, animal husbandry, mining, fishing etc.), that you can trade techs only after you or AI you want to trade with got Alphabet technology..
    And if you ask who is best for conquest - any leader (and civilization) that gives you economical benefit (to get important tehnologies and units faster) and has some early unique unit (roman praetorian for example) for 1st/2nd war..
     
  6. jackelgull

    jackelgull An aberration of nature

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    It is nice to see some new people on these forums:)

    As Sticl3r has said, any leader with good traits and an early uu to give the advantage would be good. That said, the best of these is probably Huayna Capac. He starts with an improved warrior that has combat one and a bonus against archers. On levels below monarch, or is it emperor this bonus doesn't really show but still, a warrior rush with combat one warriors when others likely only have unpromoted warriors is good. He is probably the very best for a newbie to begin with as a quecha rush requires little thought with much gain and can teach one how to deal with the cost of conquest. And doesn't really go obsolete till the AI gets to feudalism (because the AI seems to build very few melee units to defend their cities and would rather rely on archers)
     
  7. Izuul

    Izuul Level 86

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    Very debatable when they call someone a ****er in their 2nd forum post...
     
  8. Dhar Khosis

    Dhar Khosis Chieftain

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    If you really want to trigger the "Conquest Victory", I suggest you to disable "Domination Victory". Because if you don't burn down a lot of enemy cities domination may trigger before you're the "last people standing".

    Montezuma has ups and downs considering conquest, some are already told by others before me, but I 'll add some more: Spiritual can be used to get the AI on your side (why would you want that, if you're going to conquest them all?), but you can also use it to change your civics alot, e.g. to finish military in civics that give you more starting experience after building them in other civics faster.
    Aggresive lets you build barracks faster.
    His unique unit is a sword, that doesn't need iron, so you start producing it right after you tec iron working, but it's weaker in attacking cities. If you have alot of jungle or forest between you and your enemies they are faster if you promote them to woodsman 2.

    Usually, if you play a difficulty according to your skill (and style) going religion first is not advised, because you slow down your development (that's why you go worker techs first). And if you do, it more likely gives you enemies instead of allies, because AI may have a different religion.
    Hunting is usually not considered as a food-source-tec, because deer-camps are rare (elephant and beaver don't give you food), and agriculture and animal husbandry are more important.

    If you're not playing deity difficulty having worries to get stomped by barbarians, you usually have time to tec bronze and/or AH to hook up copper/horses while fog busting with warriors, so you needn't tec the dead end archery.

    Building a wall is more or less always a waste of production.

    If you're going for a conquest without razing and no vassals, then I think organized is the best trait to use.
     
  9. ecuwins

    ecuwins Emperor

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    Would it not be Heinie Cowpack?
     
  10. Izuul

    Izuul Level 86

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    Probably, but he's the best leader for most types of games until you start getting into some very specific HOF-type strategies. There's a reason he's banned from many competitions.

    And FWIW, Charismatic is probably the best actual "war trait," and the happiness boost is good for the economy as well. Creative and Spiritual are also very strong war traits, ironically enough.
     
  11. traius

    traius His own worst enemy

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    lol 5c
     
  12. MegaLurker

    MegaLurker King

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    Aggressive is useless, spiritual is good. Too many variables to say what leader is the best for conquest but having sacrificial alters when it's whipping time sure doesn't hurt.
     
  13. BlackArc

    BlackArc Chieftain

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    Well the guy was being a jerk. A new player typed out a strategy based on his limited knowledge of the game and asked this forum for advice. The last thing he needs is some ass typing out useless quips and not actually offering any help.

    As for the actual topic, I would say, for some very simple and easy to follow advice, that the Financial trait would serve a new player well. The trait makes expanding and paying for your empire much easier, and it's very newbie friendly: just make a lot of cottages, and have your cities work them so that they become towns over time. A strong economy = more tech advancement and more ability to afford a large army for conquest.

    So I'd say, pick a Civ Leader that has Financial as a trait, particularly Darius I of the Persian Empire, Huayna Capac of the Incan Empire, or Elizabeth/Victoria of the English Empire. Darius I also benefits from having a powerful Unique Unit called the Immortal that works very well for early rushes.

    Aggressive is a pretty poor trait, but it's not terrible, the faster barracks and extra combat promotion is nice, it just needs to be combined with a good economic trait.

    Spiritual is nice because it means no anarchy when you change civics, and it's very useful for cultural victories, but it won't do the things you seem to think it does. It's not going to help you gain allies, you'll have to learn how to handle diplomacy in the game and how to use religion to pick allies. You also have to trade resources with other civics, that's not something that the Spiritual trait plays a part in.

    For the early game the most important thing to do is get food resources running. Survey the land around you and the resources available. If you see rice or corn, tech Agriculture. if you see cows, sheep, or pigs go for Animal Husbandry, it'll also reveal horses, which are useful for early rushes.

    Aside from those, Bronze working is very important to get very early on as it'll enable the ability to chop wood to speed up production and allow you to use the Slavery Civic, which will help produce things much faster.

    Either way, you'll probably need to come back for more advice, the game is very fun but also very dense. Hope you enjoy, and welcome!

    ---
     
  14. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

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    Darius. Immortal rush. FIN + ORG traits for economic recovery. Win. Just remember to hit before they get spearmen.

    Ramsesses. War chariots. They're effectively str 5 horse archers that come twice as early and twice as cheap.

    Ceasar. Praetorians. Cheap Str 8 unit. Best unit in game until maces and crossbows. 'Nuff said.

    Caesar and praetorians is auto-win on continent/pangea as long as you have iron at difficulties of immortal or below. Just get 3 cities, build a granary and a barracks in each one, improve the special tiles and the hills with workers, research iron working and then use slavery to whip out oodles of praetorians and you should win easily.

    Unique units matter more than traits.
     
  15. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

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    Heck, you don't even need slavery and granaries at emperor or below. Just get 3 cities and 3-4 workers initially and then build praetorians in all your cities. Easy win.

    To avoid economic collapse, prioritize getting currency after Iron Working. Every new city that you capture should either be building praetorians or building wealth. With praetorians it can easily snowball. There's nothing that can stop these suckers until Machinery, and the AI at emperor or below techs real slow and chooses random tech paths.
     
  16. dutchfire

    dutchfire Moderator Moderator

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  17. Ororo

    Ororo King

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    Suleiman. I cannot guarantee that he is THE top leader for conquest but he is certainly up there.

    A) Traits. IMP really shines in the early stages of the game since it allows you to spam settlers and (relatively) keep up with the AI expansion even on Immortal/Deity. It certainly does not lose its shine even after this initial phase (unlike say CRE or EXP), instead the second bonus kicks in - you start getting multiple great generals from your conquests. Having two Medic 3 units (so that you can attack on two different fronts if you can produce enough units) and say 2-3 cookie-cutter units is extremely helpful in game that is going to end as Conquest or Domination. PHI is a top tier trait, which gets you your desired Great People faster. This is great for teching games, but it's absolutely essential in conquest games, in which you really want to beeline certain military techs (Machinery, Engineering, Guilds etc.). The reason is that warring always sets you back at least a little bit technology-wise. What was very effective for your first target may not stand a chance against the third. PHI also synergises well with...

    B) ... the Starting techs! Ottomans start with Agriculture and The Wheel, which by civfanatics standards is considered to be the strongest combo out there. A very important aspect is that you are not locked into Fishing (unlike Sitting Bull, Elizabeth or Lincoln) and can therefore pursue the fabled Engineering beeline. Trebs are an excellent unit and will last you a long time before they lose their shine.

    C) Uniques. Any UB that adds extra happiness is a great UB by my standards. Janissary is probably the strongest musketman replacement and will come in handy if you research the bottom half of the tech tree (which is not that uncommon in case the aforementioned engineering rush is executed).
     
  18. Mec AntiKythera

    Mec AntiKythera King

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    I've got Civ4 arriving in the mail this Saturday, and I'm excited.
    Good, you should be.


    I've been watching a few LPs, playing the demo, and checking out GameFAQs, while I wait for the game to arrive.
    Also good, but you need to choose LPs that are relevant to your level and made by good players, not always easy to find. I would suggest reading through some games posted here.


    Tell me... is Montezuma (the Aztec leader) a good leader for a conquest victory?
    He will do just fine. Use the UB and whip a lot. Start with Domination, not Conquest.

    I'm thinking that, because his first trait is "spiritual," that would assist me in gaining allies for when I go to war (as well as allies to trait war materials, such as iron and technologies, with), and the "aggressive" trait would also help out tremendously when I'm actually attacking cities.
    Spiritual helps mostly by saving turns of anarchy which makes it useful to switch from OR when building buildings to Theology when building units. You can make friends by adopting their religion and civics, but that takes time to build up and you won't generally be switching religions a lot. Don't expect the AI to trade you any Iron early in the game, you should count on grabbing it with your own cities or taking it by force.

    His starting techs of hunting and mysticism seem to compliment those traits nicely. Having mysticism right out of the gate will enable me to found lots of religions early on, giving me access to allies early on. The hunting compliments his aggression, while at the same time providing me with a food source right out of the gate.
    Those are poor starting traits, don't offer a lot of positives. Don't concentrate on founding a lot of religions, there are better goals. Having Hunting probably will not give you a food source straight away, not in most games.

    My plan is, once I've settled my capital, to begin researching polytheism (founding hinduism ASAP), followed by archery, giving my capital some decent defense.
    You don't need Archery immediately, you can often skip it altogether. Build a couple Warriors instead, or a Chariot if you have horses. Then find metal resources and build Axemen. Avoid teching Archery if at all possible, it slows you down, it is a "if all else fails" choice.

    By this point, my first worker should be finished, and I would begin working on an archer to defend the city and switch my research over to "mining," so can have access to copper and iron as soon as I can... though I may switch to masonry if I see a stone quarry off in the distance, so that I can build a wall around my capital.
    Don't build a Wall, build a Worker, get your tiles improved. Build a Settler and get another city going. Never build early Walls, they are not needed. Units allow you to attack or defend, Walls do not. Tech Masonry for the Wonders it allows, not for Walls.

    If I can meet a neighbor who I can spread Hinduism to, I'd like to get him to teach me animal husbandry, so I can have horses and food.
    You do not want to wait to have AH based on if the AI will trade it. To trade techs you need Alphabet and you will most likely want AH long before that. Tech it yourself immediately if you have animal tiles, or almost immediately to find out where Horses are.

    I think you get the idea of where I'm going with this.
    Yes, but it is too defensive, too reliant on befriending the AI, and the priorities are not yet where they should be. Don't be insulted, it takes time to learn what works the best, but the strategy you have chosen won't take you far. It can work on the lowest levels, but that is because almost anything can work there.

    Does this sound like a viable strategy for my early game?
    See above comments. Do be civil to other users, even if they present you with irony or sarcasm. Respond in kind, it is the way of the internet, but don't take it personally and don't make it personal.

    EDIT: Btw, I'm planning on having a random world layout and climate, so I don't know what terrains are in store for me. After all, it's the dawn of man! I'm leading a tribe of about a hundred people; how do I know what the world is like?
    Some say community college is for losers, I say, "Good Luck!
     
  19. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    Monty is not good for newcomers.

    I would say Hatty/ramess since they are very easy to play (good starting techs, great UU, good traits).

    Other really strong options were mentioned by Marigold, but for newcomer I would say Hatty definitely.

    Cre will help a lot new player and Spi obviously too (he will struggle with border pops/expansion/switching civics for sure)
     
  20. ohjames

    ohjames Warlord

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    Rather than there being one 'best' conquest leader, there are best-leaders for different sorts of conquest.

    For example, a peaceful-looking fellow like Willem is actually quite good at conquering in the early game with Horse Archers. Why? Because he can research Horseback Riding very quickly (FIN bonus to commerce, plus a discounted library in your capital.) Likewise some of the peaceful-looking PHI leaders (like Gandhi or Frederick) are excellent at mid-game conquests with Cannons or Cavalry, because they can quickly generate Great People to bulb up to the key military techs.

    Generally success in conquest in C4 requires that you know when your best 'attack window' is going to be, ie., when you'll have an offensive advantage over your neighbours. When that window is will depend on your traits, your unique unit, sometimes even your unique building (Ger, I'm looking at you), and above all, what's on the map.

    The simplest modes of conquest in my opinion for a starting player would be either a Horse Archer rush (Mongols, FIN leaders, CRE leaders, and PHI leaders are good here); a rush with your civ's unique unit (civs with very good unique units are obviously the best here, like the Persians, Romans, and Egyptians), or attacking with a well-rounded stack backed up by Catapults, Trebuchets, or Cannons, which is something pretty much any civ can do, as long as the map position has provided sufficient production and commerce to get everything online. In all cases, the key thing is to strike early, strike hard, and strike fast - your units will become obsolete sooner or later.
     

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