"The Blind Leading the Blind", SirJethro's DyP-newb SG

[SirJethro]

Okay, here we go. This SG is for Civ3/PTW veterans who want to play the Double Your Pleasure (DyP) mod, but have no experience with it yet. Players must:

- have beaten Monarch on unmodded Civ3/PTW
- have never played DyP mod
- own PTW, patched to 1.21

I'm going to start with 4 or 5 players. Current roster:

SirJethro
Antonius Bhargash
Cromagnon

Game Settings
Civ: I'm open to suggestions....otherwise random
Size: Normal
Civs: 8
AI: Monarch
Everything else: Random

 

[SirJethro]

Links to the DyP website and CFC thread. There is a spreadsheet on the website that you'll probably need. There are more changes in this mod than I thought, so please be sure to check them out before you play:

The DyP Mod Homepage

The DyP Mod CFC Thread

 

[cromagnon]

Looking at the spreadsheet is key (it's on the homepage under Addons). It looks like a totally different game, with many of the things you take for granted (eg mining and irrigation) coming only with certain techs.

A very appropriate title, SirJethro. Although, isn't it "the fool leading the blind?"

I'm sure the DyP mods will get a good laugh out of this.

 

[SirJethro]

Okay....here we go. Starting roster as follows:
- SirJethro (up)
- Antonius Block (on deck)
- cromagnon
- bewareofgnomes

Here are the game settings:
- Standard size map (8 civs)
- Random Barbs
- Random map/climate/temp/age
- All Civs (including us) are random
- NO culturally linked starting positions, all victory conditions, cultural conversions on
- MONARCH difficulty

I'll post a screen of our starting position soon. Needless to say, if we are landlocked in the desert, I'll rerun a new position....but I'm only going to do so if it's pretty poor.

 

[SirJethro]

Wow...balance. Great starting position, but a bad civ. We are the Aztecs. It is going to be a challenge for us to hold off our GA. It may depend on what the barbs are like. Anyway...here is the mpa.

Lots of floodplain. That is Rice on the one tile. That tile has 5 food from the getgo. I've drawn a circle around where I expect to place the city. I hate to waste floodplain, but I want to take advantage of the river.

 

[SirJethro]

I'm going to play a full 20 turns, but wanted to post our good fortunes so far. We popped a Tribe on our first goody hut! That has only happened to me once....I'm so happy.

4000 - We've begun with Warrior Code and Ceremonial Burial. Both have been slightly altered, so consult your manuals. Basically, though, we can now build barracks and shrines. At this point, our workers are COMPLETE IDIOTS. They cannot do anything other than explore. So that is what we'll do. Sending worker to scout our potential city location before commiting our settler. Oh, great. Workers can't see more than 1 square away, so that told me nothing. Commiting settler. Ahh...looks like a good spot. Two more floodplain will be in our radius to the southeast. OH GLORY....I just realized settlers move as if on roads, so I can still form our city on the first turn.

I settle our first city and glorious capital: JETHROVIA. Okay, heads up...our settler unit is the SHAMAN. It costs ONE citizen (not 2). Because we are relegious, we have the shaman instead of the clan. The Shaman can move through Jungles and Mountains while Clans cannot. Setting city to build JagWarrior. Science research set to the Wheel (will allow us to build roads and see horses and camels(?)) Slider is at 60%....this is the max for right now for reasons I'm still learning.

3950 - Starting some timid exploring with the worker, since he's good for nothing else.

3900 - zzz

3850 - To the southeast: The river turns northeast, across which is a jungle....and Elephants. Now I need to look up Elephants...are they the same as Ivory, or are they a resource. Hmm. Ahhh...Elephants allow certain elephant units (which are BTW, on the upgrade path to Cavalry it appears.

3800 - Spot a goody hut next to the elephant. I'm going to risk it with the worker.

3750 - WE GOT A TRIBE...WE GOT A TRIBE...HERCULES, HERCULES.

 

[SirJethro]

3750 - WE GOT A TRIBE...WE GOT A TRIBE...HERCULES, HERCULES. I moved the Tribe west one tile (next to the Elephant) to settle. Hmmm....well it would appear that I cannot settle on Jungle, so I'm going to have to waste a bonus grassland to get him back across the river and settle. So it goes.

3700 - Settled second city: Tuskany. Building JagWarrior. Still exploring w/ worker (worker can clear jungle, so if we scout a good spot for third city, we should probably clear it....but he's still undefended). Wheel in 4 turns. 60% research appears to be max for now.

3650 - Jethrovia finished Jag (building another...then Shaman). Sending Jag west...goody hut spotted.

3600 - Goody hut gives us 25gold. To the east...worker spots more elephants and banannas. LOTS of jungle. Bringing worker home to build roads. Wheel in 1 turn.

3550 - Wheel completed...research moves to: Mining (6 turns). The Wheel shows us a camel within Jethrovia's radius.

3500 - Jag spots another GH to the west.

3450 - Tuskany...JagWarrior complete, Shrine ordered. These cities grow so much more slowly with the 3 food per citizen. Wow.

3400 - Jethrovia completes Jag, starts Shaman. Jag fortifies in Jethrovia. GH - the Teoihaucan tribe teaches us Masonry.

3350 - Jag spots incense, far to the west.

3300 - Exploring.

3250 - Mining research completed. Researching Bronze Working. We are moderately advanced.

3200 - JW in the west spots GH. JW in east moving up narrow pennisula.

3150 - GH yeilds map of region. Mostly desert and a jungle full of sugar.

3100 - Tuskany completes Shrine. Begins Shaman. I haven't seen any barbs yet, so I think we may have drawn a pretty quiet barb setting. We are pretty light on military, but expanding fast. We need to be ready to change that if we see a barb. We're taking a risk here, but it will pay off big if we can get some early expansion. Bronze Working done in 7 turns.

3050 - Civ spotted to North (over penisula...looks like Egypt maybe).

==============================

NOTES:
- After Civ to the north has been met, fortify the JW on the penisula to block them from exploring south into our territory.
- Jethrovia is a fast growing city....manage it carefully to avoid unrest and keep it producing enough shields.
- I'm torn about city placement for the next city...so I'll leave that to you (Jethrovia produces Shaman on this turn).
- PLEASE - don't use the Aztec city names. I hate them. Pick your own names.
- Our military is weak, but JWs can trigger a premature GA. We'll have spearmen soon. Let's defend cities with those and limit the number of JWs for now.

So far...this is pretty cool. I'm surprised I haven't met more Civs. Are they not exploring?

Screenshot and savegame file to come.

 

[SirJethro]

 

[SirJethro]

Anton...you're up.

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

Got it and will post the results this evening after working.

 

[cromagnon]

Aztecs aren't so bad, SJ. Religious is going to help us as we try out all these nice new governments, and I'm all for more promotions (Elites have 6 hp in this mod). Remember that the GA lasts 30 turns!

60% is the cap for Chiefdom, Despot, and Republic.

A nice run with the GH!

I've drawn a circle around where I expect to place the city.

I assume we started on a desert tile, and we couldn't settle where we started?

At this point, our workers are COMPLETE IDIOTS.

At least now we have mining and roads. Irrigation doesn't come in until the next Age.

For reference, Elephants give 2 food & 2 commerce, and let us build Elephant Riders (4/1/2) and Elephant Archers (4 bombard).
Sugar gives 1 food, 2 commerce, and is a lux.
Bananas (tropical fruit) gives 2 food, 2 commerce, and is a lux.
Incense is needed for temples & cathedrals (but not shrines, which we have).
Camels give 1 shield & 1 commerce, but I can't figure out what it's a strategic resource for.

I would suggest settling west of Jethrovia to grab the game (1 food, 1 prod), as we can't settle near the incense or sugar (desert & jungle). We should also start cranking out Jags because of their exploration ability and for offense. I refer you to Sirp's Pointy-Stick Research SG.

Antonius, I'll let you decide whether or not we need a granary in Jethroville (we need Farming, then Pottery) based on your poll. The big difference is that each citizen eats 3 food instead of 2, and we can't irrigate anything even if we wanted to.

Edit: Removed erroneous Jag stats. They are still 1/1/2; the spreadsheet was incorrect.

 

[SirJethro]

Originally posted by cromagnon
I assume we started on a desert tile, and we couldn't settle where we started?

No, we started on flood plain, but we were not directly on the river. I wanted to be directly on the river for growth (no aqueduct).

As for the granary, because of that rice, Jethrovia is actually growing EXTREMELY fast, and we don't have a lot of shields. I would forego the granary in Jethrovia. But Tuskany needs one BADLY.

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

I can't open the save- it crashes my computer because I don't have "pediaicons.palace" or some such.



Did you load more graphics in from the DyP mod website? If so, you'll have to give us all the complete listing. Meanwhile I am happy if the next player wants to try to open the file and see what happens...

 

[SirJethro]

Originally posted by Antonius Block
I can't open the save- it crashes my computer because I don't have "pediaicons.palace" or some such.



Did you load more graphics in from the DyP mod website? If so, you'll have to give us all the complete listing. Meanwhile I am happy if the next player wants to try to open the file and see what happens...

You have to install the main MOD file v1.04 (like 22mb or something) and then a v1.04 to v1.05 patch on top. Did you install both of those?

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

No I didn't install those! Is there a link to it? I thought we were playing "dry" without the graphics but with the mod rules.

 

[cromagnon]

Here's the link

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

Okay, back to work on it.

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

Wow, a fourteen minute download with a cable modem. I can't wait to see how this mod looks!

 

[cromagnon]

Ignore this; I was able to open the game, but I just started a game, but the tech tree is not DyP.

Here are a couple of suggestions, looking at the game now:
1. Jethrovia is about to make a shaman. Work the tiles with rice, floodplains, and camel, to get the max food.
2. My gut feeling tells me that we'll still need a granary eventually. As shamans drop the pop by only one, not two, we can forgo the granary for now.

ps. Isak tells me that Camels will eventually be a strategic resource that will be needed for units. For now, we'll use it for the shields/commerce, and maybe we can trade it away for something more useful, if the AI is a sucker.

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

3050 BC- observations: Oh no, we’re the Aztecs!!! And pretty ugly real estate. I’m changing the Tuskany build to a jaguar warrior from shaman, because I want to see that city have a permanent guard before we send out more settlers.
Offturn>Jethrovia shaman>jaguar warrior.

Turn 1 3000 BC- I assume we want to build near the iron. So jaguar warrior from Jethrovia and the new shaman take off in that direction.

Turn 2 2950 BC- We meet an English scout to the extreme west. They’ve got alphabet, farming and one other city besides their capital. We trade ceremonial burial for alphabet and 8 gold, but they refuse to do a deal for farming (they’ll pay later). Our north warrior walks up to the walls of Edrine, an Ottoman city. They know nothing. I sell them ceremonial burial for 30 gold. Tempted to kill that city next turn but don’t trust the RNG.

Offturn: Citizens in Jethrovia dying of disease. Nice one. Back to size one city, this place is going to be tricky for building settlers out of…

Turn 3 2900 BC- Third contact, the Spanish. They also know nothing, so I sell them Masonry for 30 gold. My most diplomatic game ever!!!
The warrior, walking a few paces ahead of the Shaman, has discovered a quiet lake to the southeast of Jethrovia. This will be the new settlement area, it moves us towards the iron but is still close to home.

Turn 4 2850 BC- Yeah, just walking around.

Offturn: Tuscany jaguar warrior>shaman. These are the settling years…

Offturn: we learn bronzeworking. I’m picking up farming next, find out what the English think is so great about it.

Turn 5 2800 BC- Lake Antonius founded on Lake Antonius. First build to be a spearman. First contact with China, due east. They know NOTHING. We sell them Ceremonial burial for 20 gold. We’re rich, everyone else is poor. We’re also the smartest. The Ottomans, English and Spanish all seem to already know Bronzeworking now.
Our jagwarrior north disturbs an angry Anasazi hut (with two barbs in it!?) and moves to where only one can hit him.

Offturn: He kills the one who attacked.

Turn 6 2750 BC- I avoid putting away the laundry, incredible since I didn’t have to do it, either.

Turn 7 2710 BC-
Offturn: Jethrovia Jaguar warrior>shaman.

Turn 8 2670 BC- First horse I see is rather far from home…future Ottoman territory.

Turn 9 2630 BC- Road between Jethrovia and Tuskany complete. Worker moves up to the floodplain with rice to complete the financial expansion of the capital for the short term.

Turn 10 2590 BC- One turn away from learning how to farm. Jag warriors move slow in the desert (!). Two shamans and a spearman ordered up. Good luck…