The Breaking Storm, 1919-1945

[Tommy Vercetti]

It not just me Ares always helps with the sounds.

Then you are both awesome

 

[Fallible_Fiend]

Thanks a lot, Delta Strife! I'm just joined the forum, but for years I was a big fan of your great models, and has downloaded many of them for my Civ3 mods. Your naval units greatly helped me to make my modded game MUCH more realistic!

One of my concerns in Civ3 modding was the correct in-game incorporation of seaplanes and seaplane carriers. Well, you know, once you give any naval unit a flag "carry aircraft", and voila, the unit is a Carrier and capable to land and launch ANY aircraft including strategic bomber... So, I come to concept that seaplane carrier in-game must have "integrated" seaplanes and not carry them as a separate units (leaving that role to usual flattops). Thus I gave these tenders a Radar (to imitate recon seaplanes) and long-range Bombard capacity (to imitate strike seaplanes). But now there is a new problem: almost any attack animation of naval units is guns, torpedoes or missiles. The only exclusion to that rule is Japanese battleship-carrier Ise - thanx Delta Strife one more time, your IJN Ise includes air attack animation and sounds! Well, and a request, Delta: if your time permits, couldn't you add such an animation to another seaplane carriers (Swedish Gotland, Japanese Oyodo and Tone, German Roon etc.)?

 

[Ozymandias]

Thanks a lot, Delta Strife! I'm just joined the forum, but for years I was a big fan of your great models, and has downloaded many of them for my Civ3 mods. Your naval units greatly helped me to make my modded game MUCH more realistic!

One of my concerns in Civ3 modding was the correct in-game incorporation of seaplanes and seaplane carriers. Well, you know, once you give any naval unit a flag "carry aircraft", and voila, the unit is a Carrier and capable to land and launch ANY aircraft including strategic bomber... So, I come to concept that seaplane carrier in-game must have "integrated" seaplanes and not carry them as a separate units (leaving that role to usual flattops). Thus I gave these tenders a Radar (to imitate recon seaplanes) and long-range Bombard capacity (to imitate strike seaplanes). But now there is a new problem: almost any attack animation of naval units is guns, torpedoes or missiles. The only exclusion to that rule is Japanese battleship-carrier Ise - thanx Delta Strife one more time, your IJN Ise includes air attack animation and sounds! Well, and a request, Delta: if your time permits, couldn't you add such an animation to another seaplane carriers (Swedish Gotland, Japanese Oyodo and Tone, German Roon etc.)?

"Challenges" like limiting what sort of aircraft you'd like, and not like, to land on Carriers is usually solved quite simply:

1. Give the Carrier unit (as usual) the "Transports Only Aircraft" check box ability.
2. Of course, have all of your aircraft units be, well, aircraft.
3. Give each aircraft type which you don't want to be able to land on a carrier as having the, "Cruise Missile" ability - but (most critically) do not give that unit the "Cruise Missile" AI Strategy! (Only ships flagged with, "Transports Only Tactical Missiles" and the "Transports Only Aircraft" abilities will accommodate those.)

There! Congratulations on your first AI "workaround!"

 

[Fallible_Fiend]

"Challenges" like limiting what sort of aircraft you'd like, and not like, to land on Carriers is usually solved quite simply:

1. Give the Carrier unit (as usual) the "Transports Only Aircraft" check box ability.
2. Of course, have all of your aircraft units be, well, aircraft.
3. Give each aircraft type which you don't want to be able to land on a carrier as having the, "Cruise Missile" ability - but (most critically) do not give that unit the "Cruise Missile" AI Strategy! (Only ships flagged with, "Transports Only Tactical Missiles" and the "Transports Only Aircraft" abilities will accommodate those.)

There! Congratulations on your first AI "workaround!"

Thank you, "King of Kings" (c), this is quite an intriguing idea I thought that Civ3 just prohibits you from landing any Cruise Missile unit on Carrier, but I may be wrong in that. Helicopter units (those Air units that capable of transporting Land units) are restricted for Carriers for sure.
So, you can mark a unit as a Cruise Missile and didn't make it a single-mission kamikaze? Well, it may have some use (maybe for VTOL aircraft in-game), but didn't solve my problem with seaplanes. Seaplane carrier and wheeled-chassis plane carriers of a WWII era were specific enough and not interchangeable (I know that one can be transformed to another but usually it requires a massive reconstruction). I still like my idea of a seaplanes as a "integrated part" of naval unit, so my request of air-attack animation is still relevant.

 

[Ozymandias]

Thank you, "King of Kings" (c), this is quite an intriguing idea I thought that Civ3 just prohibits you from landing any Cruise Missile unit on Carrier, but I may be wrong in that. Helicopter units (those Air units that capable of transporting Land units) are restricted for Carriers for sure.
So, you can mark a unit as a Cruise Missile and didn't make it a single-mission kamikaze? Well, it may have some use (maybe for VTOL aircraft in-game), but didn't solve my problem with seaplanes. Seaplane carrier and wheeled-chassis plane carriers of a WWII era were specific enough and not interchangeable (I know that one can be transformed to another but usually it requires a massive reconstruction). I still like my idea of a seaplanes as a "integrated part" of naval unit, so my request of air-attack animation is still relevant.

Ergo:

1. Keep Carriers as they are.
2. Use the "Cruise Missile trick for seaplanes.

Simple rule of thumb: There's no need to take the Editor's wording as Gospel. A simple example for a full Campaign game:

1. I keep my earliest sea transports marked as, "Transports Only Foot Units."
2. When technologically reasonable, newer transports are introduced, I no longer have that box (limitation) checked.
3. When earlier/lighter AFVs come into play (and if all horse and elephant units are no longer in play) I mark them as "Foot Units."
4. When heavy tanks enter the fray, I revert to the same "trick," marking the heavy AFVs as, "Wheeled."

- Oh! And a slightly belated, "Welcome Aboard!"


- z

 

[Fallible_Fiend]

Ergo:

1. Keep Carriers as they are.
2. Use the "Cruise Missile trick for seaplanes.

Simple rule of thumb: There's no need to take the Editor's wording as Gospel. A simple example for a full Campaign game:

1. I keep my earliest sea transports marked as, "Transports Only Foot Units."
2. When technologically reasonable, newer transports are introduced, I no longer have that box (limitation) checked.
3. When earlier/lighter AFVs come into play (and if all horse and elephant units are no longer in play) I mark them as "Foot Units."
4. When heavy tanks enter the fray, I revert to the same "trick," marking the heavy AFVs as, "Wheeled."

- Oh! And a slightly belated, "Welcome Aboard!"


- z

Thank you, shipmate
I'm quite aware that unit's flags may mean or may not mean exactly what they spelt like. I didn't get your point with limiting transport capabilities of early transport and with road-binding of heavy tanks, but I think I get the idea of "things are not what they look like".

Well, the whole discussion beginning to be more and more offtopic here in Delta's topic. Maybe it would be better to transit it to some general discussion section?

2 Delta Strife: I'm grateful for you outstanding units (not only for naval ones, but for naval especially) and I would be even more grateful if you add an Ise-style air-attack animation to other seaplane carriers Oh, and one more thing: may I post here a some mere flaws I've found in couple of your units, for you to correct them later?

 

[Kirejara]

and I would be even more grateful if you add an Ise-style air-attack animation to other seaplane carriers

Most Carriers and Seaplane Carriers have an Aircraft Launch Sequence as "Fortity" animation. You can switch that to the first attack animation in the INI-file of a unit as an interim solution.

For landbased Aircraft and Seaplane Carriers I have a slightly different approach than Ozymandias.

Aircraft Carriers are unchanged ("Transport only Aircraft" in Unit ability).

Seaplanes and Helicopters are marked as "Cruise Missile" in Unit Abilty and Seaplane Carriers and Cruiser are marked as "Transport only Aircraft" and "Transport only Cruise Missiles". Seaplanes and Helicopters have -1 Hitpoints than regular Aircraft, because their Squadrons are smaller.

Landbase Aircraft can (not really ) transport one unit, but are marked as "Transports only Cruise Missile", "Transports only Aircraft" and "Transports only Footunits". That way they can not be loaded into an Aircraft Carrier and are unable to transport units themself.

 

[Delta_Strife]

@Fallible_Fiend I will keep the suggestion in mind for Seaplane carriers when I redo them or have some more free time. Sometimes I add air attack if the seaplane carrier has Fighters or Bombers or deck other times I feel the planes are too small or that the planes would not be able to really attack another ship because they are scouts. Feel free to make suggestions if you find any flaws.

 

[Fallible_Fiend]

Most Carriers and Seaplane Carriers have an Aircraft Launch Sequence as "Fortity" animation. You can switch that to the first attack animation in the INI-file of a unit as an interim solution.

Well, I was thinking about it myself, but IMHO that Fortify animation is not fine for that purpose.

Seaplanes and Helicopters are marked as "Cruise Missile" in Unit Abilty and Seaplane Carriers and Cruiser are marked as "Transport only Aircraft" and "Transport only Cruise Missiles". Seaplanes and Helicopters have -1 Hitpoints than regular Aircraft, because their Squadrons are smaller.

Landbase Aircraft can (not really ) transport one unit, but are marked as "Transports only Cruise Missile", "Transports only Aircraft" and "Transports only Footunits". That way they can not be loaded into an Aircraft Carrier and are unable to transport units themself.

Thank you, seems like a terrific idea I'll try that in some of my scenarios.

@Fallible_Fiend I will keep the suggestion in mind for Seaplane carriers when I redo them or have some more free time. Sometimes I add air attack if the seaplane carrier has Fighters or Bombers or deck other times I feel the planes are too small or that the planes would not be able to really attack another ship because they are scouts. Feel free to make suggestions if you find any flaws.

Glad that my suggestion will be taken into account
About flaws I noted for myself: here they are.
1) Battlecruiser Amagi: model and sounds are great as usual, but there are some artifacts during attack animation.
2) Battleship Ise we just talk about: all is perfect except little seaplane freezing in upper right corner of "fortified" image.

Maybe "not bugs but features", I want to mention too. IMHO Alaska and Mogami heavy cruisers seems trifle too large when compared to your another ship models; new version of battleship Littorio (released in 2021) looks great on preview but I really miss that nice camouflage of your Littorio version 2016. Yes, I know that previous version still available for download, but still...

 

[Delta_Strife]

Update: Germany's turn for a naval update. New versions of Scharnhorst, Bismark, Emden, Konigsberg, O Class, M Class, and Leipzig. New Units such as Carriers, H Class, Type 1938A/Ac, Type 1937J and Spähkreuzer.

 

[Lionic]

Great! Again some units that I thought won't be made.

 

[Lionic]

Delta, have a look at those units that are updates (O class BC, early Bismark etc.). Older models are being downloaded, newer versions are missing in the list.

 

[Civinator]

Delta, your Kriegsmarine updates are looking wonderful!

 

[Delta_Strife]

@Lionic Opps I messed up updating those now the new versions are accessible.

 

[Ares de Borg]

What our Great Master of the Fleet also forgot to mention is why we worked hard to release them on this very day: It's the 80th anniversary of the Battle of the Denmark Strait.

 

[Vuldacon]

What our Great Master of the Fleet also forgot to mention is why we worked hard to release them on this very day: It's the 80th anniversary of the Battle of the Denmark Strait.

Yes, Very Appropriate indeed...Thank You Both for your work

 

[Fallible_Fiend]

"Wow, wow, wow! All I can say is just - WOW!!" (c) Dirty Rotten Scoundrels movie
Delta and Ares, you're awesome!

 

[Ozymandias]

I recall our conversation about "attention to detail" quite well - but four Leipzigs (well, yes, there are five Colorados but, hey, who's counting? )
In a "word" -

 

[Delta_Strife]

Hmmm the only ship that I may have more versions might be the Midway's but not like I have many versions of her...........maybe.......Need more time!

 

[Takhisis]

Ergo:

1. Keep Carriers as they are.
2. Use the "Cruise Missile trick for seaplanes.

Simple rule of thumb: There's no need to take the Editor's wording as Gospel. A simple example for a full Campaign game:

1. I keep my earliest sea transports marked as, "Transports Only Foot Units."
2. When technologically reasonable, newer transports are introduced, I no longer have that box (limitation) checked.
3. When earlier/lighter AFVs come into play (and if all horse and elephant units are no longer in play) I mark them as "Foot Units."
4. When heavy tanks enter the fray, I revert to the same "trick," marking the heavy AFVs as, "Wheeled."

- Oh! And a slightly belated, "Welcome Aboard!"


- z

Off the top of my head, you can also use this to differentiate between carriers designed for fixed-wing aircraft and those designed for helicopters, or also to separate drones from crewed aircraft.