The Builder That Played With Hippus

[Arpymaster]

I'm a builder type, I like to build a lot in my cities, get an army and then, in the late game, maybe take a few cities, see that I can't be stopped, get bored, and restart. I almost never end a game, I get tired sooner, much much sooner.

Of course, I had read about Hippus but never tried them (ok, I played them once months ago, but didn't like them).

I had played an Amurites game were I got bored of dominating the world with the baron and some order priests.

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So, playing my usual map 3 nights ago, Duel-Tiny, Monarch (to have some wars, previous version with monarch I had almost never wars, now I will get many), Highlands, with 5-7 civs, normal or epic. , playing as the amurites.

I start a new game, but I want to see this guys with their powerfull magic. Being pissed at the AI for having a worker and more men than I do, I opened the worldbuilder and gave myself several GP... I don't usually do this, but I wanted to check Amurites fast, so it was ok. A great prophet, engineer and scientist. By turn 80 Alexis and Tasunke declare war. Ok.

Alexis was no deal. There were archers coming my way, but ok, I could handle that.

Tasunke was something different. 3 horses took one of my cities.
Reload. The same. Not one of them died. Reload.

Bring the powerfull magic from the amurites (opened the worldbuilder and placed 7-10 treants, plus the golden dragon-this is what I mean with true
magic)... I love the treants, sorry, I had to say it.

Back to the game. The treans are holding my cities and the dragon takes a city. I'm killing the vampires, but Tasunke... I need more treants...

The game is lost, no fun in having treants and a dragon. Maybe monarch is much more difficult than the previous version.

New game. Duel, Highlands, but... which civ to pick... and how many AI civs... and difficulty level... I want Amurites, or Luirchip but... but... ok, lets try Tasunke, Monarch, 5 other civs.

Nice start, two civs close by, a nice spot for the second city very close. The real decision cames next... what to investigate? what should I research? I was going for agriculture but Tasunke has it. Great. So what to research? Mines? Go for writing? Grab a religion?

Think

You got yourself your head chopped and served in a gold plate in the last game because this son of a ##### came with his horsemen. Ok, I'll go as fast as I can to get horsemen.

I build a second city in a perfect spot, and start to build an army of horsemen. Orthus cames to pay a visit by my second city, and gives his axe kindly to a horsemen, the first of the army. With 2 more horsemen I declare war to the Doviello. Gone. War to the Sidar. Gone. War to the Elohim. War to the clown. Guess what? Gone. War to the Sheaim. You know by now, don't you?

End of the game: 45 min in the game. The highest score.
Army: 5 horsemen in attack. Warriors and horsemen to defend all the captured cities.
Cities build: one (plus the start city)
Turns: 116, I could have finished 6 turns earlier.
Buildings: no need except markets, obelisks and stables.

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The early rush was brutal. No way I could stand Tasunke with warriors as the amurites, or anybody else. The few times I almost lost a horsemen, I was lucky enought for them to retreat. So maybe my lost Monty (the AI that will always declare war and make demands) is now Tasunke. He can hit soo fast (his horsemen have 4 movement plus raider trait) and soo hard, he kills everybody in this kind of map. Maybe I should run to grab horsemen too in my future games. Or tech myself to get the scout line, instead of researching religions, improvements, etc.

This is not a rant. I enjoyed this game as Tasunke, as I usually do with the others. I think Hippus are too powerfull as they are right now. Maybe the lord of horses should be gained via research. I don't know.

As I said I'm a builder type of player. I almost never end a game, because it's tedious for me to conquer all civs or get any other victory.

But I don't feel the buildings give that much of an edge. And to lose all the buildings in a new captured city is not right.

Well, this are my two cents.

 

[onedreamer]

Tasunke is powerful, I agree, but of course in Duel map rushing horsemen or chariots is a winning move, whatever civ you play. You'd have won in the same with any other civ, maybe within a few more turns though. Can you test it out ?

 

[Arpymaster]

I can try, but I don't like those kinds of games. I'm a builder type.
Last night I started 4 different games, and none were very interesting. So I may try a new one tonight, maybe with the vampires and horsemen.

 

[wilboman]

The Lanun are better off on Archipelago, and the Dwarves are better off with Highlands, etc. Most of the Civs are overpowered, given the right conditions. That's the price we pay for making them so different.

 

[carn]

I do not see the point of the thread, because obviously with aggressive and raider Hippus under Tasunke have the most offensive punch of all civs, the civics combine each other awesomely. Other civs have that as well, e.g. Sheiam with arcane+ summoner, grigori with ind+phil.

 

[EugeneStyles]

It's a testament to this game how many civs can seem really overpowered under the right conditions. My first instinct was that Grigori was the strongest civ, and I think I still believe that. But I had a similar OMG moment recently with Luchuirp. A Combat V Barnaxus with Orthus' Axe, teamed up with whatshisname, the first RoK hero (who incidentally has Repair), completely ripped up the Sheaim, and my cities were well-defended by Empower V Wood Golems, while my enemy had only Warriors and Archers.

Tasunke has some awesome offensive traits. Raider is quite possibly a little overpowered all on its own, and he has a decided advantage right when he gets Horsemen, but if you don't push your advantage early, you can really get pushed over by other civs that bloom later.

Calabim are awfully strong in the midgame, being able to vampirize your heroes, and get high-level Brujah by bleeding off extra unhappy pop... I haven't played late enough into a game with them to get tier 4 troops vampirized, but I'm sure it's pretty good.

I haven't played all of the civs yet, but I think they all have situations or moments in a game when they can dominate.

 

[brainpan]

It's a testament to this game how many civs can seem really overpowered under the right conditions.

Exactly. And the right conditions, more often than not, have more to do with who is playing a particular civ. and who is playing against it.

Playing with an "overpowered" civ. comes with its own challenges and risks since experienced players will play very aggressively in order to keep it in check.

 

[Arpymaster]

I do not see the point of the thread, because obviously with aggressive and raider Hippus under Tasunke have the most offensive punch of all civs, the civics combine each other awesomely. Other civs have that as well, e.g. Sheiam with arcane+ summoner, grigori with ind+phil.

The point? Well, it was fun for me to discover a civ I never use.
It was also interesting for me to learn next time Tasunke is close by, he will came after my head like old Monty used to do with his aztecs. And I can be a builder player, but I better leave out some techs and buildings to stop this guys.

I almost always stop playing because I get to the point where I can steamroll over the AIs but I get tired of combats and cities assaults. With Tasunke was different. I changed my style and got a victory in 45 min... I suppose for many of you this is no big deal... for me and my usually long games (3-4 hours till I get bored and restart) this was a nice surprise.

 

[[NWO]_Valis]

And it was interesting for me to read it and enjoy. I like very much such 'rapports' especially with a nice colourful incrimination.

Just post it next time in the strategy subforum if it is not a whine or a balance pledge. [try it now to move it, there should be an option it the 'Thread Tools' at the start of the topic, supposedly the starter of the thread can move it somewhere else, or we need a mod]

 

[Sarisin]

The point? Well, it was fun for me to discover a civ I never use.
It was also interesting for me to learn next time Tasunke is close by, he will came after my head like old Monty used to do with his aztecs. And I can be a builder player, but I better leave out some techs and buildings to stop this guys.

I almost always stop playing because I get to the point where I can steamroll over the AIs but I get tired of combats and cities assaults. With Tasunke was different. I changed my style and got a victory in 45 min... I suppose for many of you this is no big deal... for me and my usually long games (3-4 hours till I get bored and restart) this was a nice surprise.

I think you, and some of the other members, make some excellent points in this thread.

I think basically players tend to stay with a particular civ they like fiddling with the other variables (map size, speed, raging barbs, etc.) until they can develop a winning strategy.

I did this with the Elohim/Einon Logos and I was winning consistently by usually getting an Altar victory - although I only made it as high as Emperor difficult.

I wanted to try another civ with a different (Evil) alignment and chose Sheaim, Tebryn Arbandi in particular. Well, after 3 games, I lost them all. I had a blast particularly with the planar gates and summoning skills, but I just couldn't keep up with the other AI civs - and this was at Prince. Still, I really enjoyed the experience of playing the Sheaim.

Now, I am trying the Malakhim and enjoying that too - it helps that I am out in front in this game.

It's funny, but the hardest part of trying out new civs for me is having to go up against my favorite old civ.

 

[Grey Fox]

The Trophy Hall, even if it does nothing atm, has made me try many more civs than usual. Hippus is one of them. My plan was to do what you did, but I had a huge jungle between me and the rest of my enemies, so I never got that Initiative that I could have, so I did something I've never done instead. Built up, and got the Order for the first time, and started my assault when I got to the END of the cavalry line. With Magnadine a captured Acheron, and lots of Horse Archers (with 95% Withdrawal rate), chariots and War Chariots.

 

[Sarisin]

The Trophy Hall, even if it does nothing atm, has made me try many more civs than usual. Hippus is one of them. My plan was to do what you did, but I had a huge jungle between me and the rest of my enemies, so I never got that Initiative that I could have, so I did something I've never done instead. Built up, and got the Order for the first time, and started my assault when I got to the END of the cavalry line. With Magnadine a captured Acheron, and lots of Horse Archers (with 95% Withdrawal rate), chariots and War Chariots.

How did you capture Acheron, Grey Fox?

I wouldn't think you could use the Domination spell or an Inquisitor.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Magnadine has a 100% chance of converting any living Barbarian unit that he defeats. That includes Acheron.

 

[Sarisin]

Magnadine has a 100% chance of converting any living Barbarian unit that he defeats. That includes Acheron.

Thanks. I'm not sure where that guy comes from - never played his civ, I guess. 100% is not quite the value given the archmage/domination or inquisitor.

I am pretty down on the Domination spell after a game in which I lost two archmages and Corlindale in short order.

I learned a lesson, I think with Corlindale: you cannot Dominate a hero. I tried with Kithra Kyriel and gave Corlindale to the elves. Of course, I killed him next turn. There should probably be a disclaimer with the entry on the Domination spell that says it will not work with heros, or you can learn the hard way like I did.

On losing the two archmages, it just didn't make much sense. I lost one while trying to dominate a barbarian ogre, and the other a barbarian lizard beastmaster. This happened in back to back turns and really hurts when you take time to build up an archmage.

For awhile there, you would lose the escort of the archmage, but I guess that has been fixed.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

While I have not personally used domination successfully on a hero (I've only used it about 4 times ever, 3 were failures) I am pretty sure it is possible. I believe the relative strengths of the 2 units is taken into account, and since most heroes are much stronger than an archmage, your chances with heroes is probably pretty bad.

For some reason that just reminded me of one game where the AI Malakim was crushing the AI calabim using mostly a captures Losha Valas. Of course,sine the AI doesn't use targeted spells, I'm betting they had one lucky Inquisitor.

 

[Sarisin]

While I have not personally used domination successfully on a hero (I've only used it about 4 times ever, 3 were failures) I am pretty sure it is possible. I believe the relative strengths of the 2 units is taken into account, and since most heroes are much stronger than an archmage, your chances with heroes is probably pretty bad.

For some reason that just reminded me of one game where the AI Malakim was crushing the AI calabim using mostly a captures Losha Valas. Of course,sine the AI doesn't use targeted spells, I'm betting they had one lucky Inquisitor.

I see your point, but I was trying to dominate Kithra, who, as I recall, didn't have a lot of XP with a Corlindale that had over 101 XP.

It makes sense what you are saying about relative strengths of the caster and target. I'm not sure, though, what happened with the Ogre and Lizard Beastmaster, who were barb units and had no XP compared to a lot for the archmages.

Maybe there are some units that cannot be dominated.

 

[snarko]

Heroes are harder to dominate (and cast most spells on) but not impossible. Only magic immune units should be impossible to dominate.

 

[onedreamer]

I once dominated Hyborem's Typhoid Mary with a svartalfar archmage.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

I once dominated Hyborem's Typhoid Mary with a svartalfar archmage.

Typhoid Mary doesn't have the hero promotion.

 

[Grey Fox]

Typhoid Mary doesn't have the hero promotion.

Yeah she is a unique unit, but she is no hero.