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The Bureau of Land Grants

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Demo Game IV: RPG' started by Cyc, Jun 1, 2008.

  1. Vandal Warlord

    Vandal Warlord Nazgûl

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    Not to open old wounds but I belive Diamoundeye said he wanted both cities.
     
  2. Diamondeye

    Diamondeye So Happy I Could Die

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    From the suggestion made earlier, on which I built the proposal, Madrid will be our new city (it is the holy city, after all?). New Giruvegan will remain a city founded by the POF and used in our RP events, but under the rule of the king in other aspects.

    I need absolute accepts to this proposal from:
    Dutchfire,
    Cyc,
    Myself :rolleyes:,
    Civplayah,

    ... And would like the accept of:
    KwarriorPoet,
    JoeHarker,
    AluminumKnight,

    and eventually other APR members from this discussion or affected by this.
     
  3. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity Retired Moderator

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    2 down, 2 to go
     
  4. Joe Harker

    Joe Harker 1st in the Premiership!

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    Fine by me :)
     
  5. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Ok, after re-reading the proposal, I have two concerns that need to be addressed. I am happy with everything else. And these are minor concerns.

    1. "Furthermore, the faction remains in control of the tiles agreed upon with Cyc (Gold, atm, and negotiations are running about Ivory and Copper)."
    Meaning in totality your faction/player is granted the stewardship/Land Grant. Correct?
    (this is simply a yes or no answer to satisfy the meaning of "control" to equal "the power of a Land Grant".)

    2. "The resources from these tiles are of course accessible to the entire kingdom."
    We need them accessible only to the Government. The same goes for Madrid's resources. And this would be for whatever purpose we needed at the time. If you can change the wording here to say "accessible to the Monarchy", that would solidify the meaning. Resources are for the Government's use and are not to be restricted. I have notice that twice now you have mentioned that the resources would only be used for certain things. This will not do. If this is not acceptable, then I can not accept this.

    With a posted "yes" answer (for #1.) and the change to the wording about all resources (#2.), I will absolutely accept this. Joe Harker and King dutchfire will receive some sort of tile reallocation deal from this office after this deal goes through.

    Cyc
    Master of the Tribunal
     
  6. civplayah

    civplayah phantasm

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    I approve your constitution.
     
  7. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Here's a link to the things you say the resources can be used for. the debate thread. I reiterate, this restriction is unacceptable. I urge Joe Harker and King dutchfire to reconsider their acceptance. Restrictions on the resources are the same as no resources.
     
  8. Diamondeye

    Diamondeye So Happy I Could Die

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    Okay, I think I understand your argument. I need one thing clarified:
    1) When the tiles are under POF control (landgrant), can the citizens from NG work them?
    2) Same thing, when the tiles are not under POF control.

    ... If that's it, I can correct it and post it again, with changes. I need your confirmation that this will be the final form before doing so.

    Fine by me.
     
  9. Diamondeye

    Diamondeye So Happy I Could Die

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    OOC: This is merely guesses at what the resources are used for... I am guessing that is what the Monarchy wants them for. I forgot the fact that Gold and Ivory is also used as daily wares to improve :). Sorry for my misstatement.
     
  10. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Looks like we have a deal. With the correction about the resources being available only to the government in both of the first two paragraphs, and the afore-mentioned acknowledgement that this is what the correction means, concern number two will be satisfied.

    As for concern number one, "the power of the Land Grant" equaling the control of the tile is/or can be a deeper subject. Under normal conditions, such as with any other citizen in the Arkadian Dynasty, the Land Grant would provided authority to work the tile as they see fit and prosper from it. If you want to grow crops, that's fine. You or any oher citizen in your RP story-line can work the fields. For an example, tile number 3 is given to fed1943. Dyes exist on tile number 3. The RP story-line for that LG will have have fed1943 cultivating thos Dyes. I'm sure the government will be purchasing a large amount of dyes from fed1943 to use in the coloration of many different items. Your tile, Diamondeye, number 87 has gold. The government will need that gold, therefore a deal may be worked out where the citizens of NG will work the city-side of the hills and the Government might work the Eastern side or the Northern side for their gold. The meager amount of gold your citizens extract would be payment of the contract with the Monarchy. That sort of thing. Almost anything can be done with the authority of a Land Grant in an RP sense. Now if the Monarchy see you selling Gold to a foreign country or shipping Elephants to an enemy, your LG can be revoked, which I'm sure will snowball into many other problems. It can all work in a storyline. If other tiles around NG are not given out in an LG, your can still work them or have other NG citizen work them in your tile number 87 RP storyline. As long as no one has the authority to stop you (with an LG), it's your option. Keep in mind these are 10 mile by 10 mile square plots of land. That's a lot of work. So in answer to your query above, yes, and yes, the tiles can be worked either way.

    Keep in mind that this agreement covers areas that are political in nature and many are not covered by the ALG. Some would have to go through the King or be cleared through the military, whatever. My approval covers only those matters governed by this office.
     
  11. civplayah

    civplayah phantasm

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    double post
     
  12. civplayah

    civplayah phantasm

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    I have made a desicion on which tile I want. I would like tile 89, therefore leaving 26 open to the public. Cyc, please create my thread under this tile.
     
  13. fed1943

    fed1943 Emperor

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    I am not sure if I understood, due to my poor English knowledge.
    If the ownership of cities/tiles is just for RP purposes,I fully agree.
    If the ownership of cities/tiles is for game play purposes, I cannot
    agree, because it leads to confusion, poor and boring game, that
    even the defenders of said system gave up and left games unfinished.
    Best regards,
     
  14. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Oh, it is just for Role Playing purposes. This is basically all the Land Grant system is about, although other systems may develop from it. The gameplay portion of this discussion (choosing which tiles in-game workers work, etc) is a side issue, stemming from an agreement the Protectors of Faith made long ago and they wish to update. At this point, it's all about storylines and the virtual life. Fear not, fed1943.
     
  15. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Your request has been processed, civplayah. Tile number 89 will be granted to you when this agreement has been finalized.
     
  16. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    Hmm, that's a lot of reading. I'm going to need to spend some time before I can ratify it.

    I would like to know how many individuals there are in PoF vs APR, what tiles were in dispute, and which individual players would have disputes over which tiles.
     
  17. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Well, I guess I have to do this too.

    As far as I can tell, there are three people left in the POF. Diamondeye, civplayah, and AluminumKnight. That's all I've seen post here.

    I'm guessing about 10 for the APR (now called the AD for Arkadian Dynasty). That includes you and I as newly recruited Officers.

    The tiles in dispute were the very valuable tiles aroung the city of New Giruvegan. These tiles were chosen first by the King and others because of their value. Unfortunately they were all in the city zone of New Giruvegan (NG). NG was promised to the POF as the local "Holy City" by up and coming political star kwp in exchange for backing his campaign.

    The problem arose when the ALG issued Land Grants to the King and others for these valuable tiles (tiles number 87, 89, and 70). The POF claimed these tiles were under their jurisdiction and that the LGs were invalid. After negotiations were finally started, it has basically been agreed that these tiles would be granted to the POF and that new Land Grants would be issued to the king and the others (Joe Harker and Vandal Warlord). All individual parties have agreed to this resolution. I believe the King and Joe Harker want former Spanish tiles and Vandal Warlord wants W2 by Kassite.
     
  18. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    Thanks Cyc, that's just what I was looking for. I approve the proposed settlement terms, however I would like to remind all players of an aspect of the Land Grant program.

    One of the reasons I asked who claimed ownership of the disputed titles was that one of the affected people from the PoF side has only posted in the DG forums twice this month. If the PoF members had been acting as stewards of their assigned tiles, it would have been more obvious that a pre-existing interest in the land existed. Agreement or not, if activity on the specified tiles lapses then stewardship might end.
     
  19. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Thank you, DaveShack. Your help is always appreciated.
     
  20. Diamondeye

    Diamondeye So Happy I Could Die

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    Civplayah and I are very active, I don't know about Aluminumknight, I suggest he's given a chance to RP after the land grant. If he fails to do this, the land can be passed on although I would be in a :gripe:y mood if this happened. It is the copper tile after all.

    Ah well.

    Furthermore, POF has two rather inactive members; Croxis and Strider. I have heard once from Croxis some weeks ago (in POF thread), but no sign of Strider...
     

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