The Byzantines CIV VII Suggestions and Hopes

[The Fanatical]

Mainly this thread focuses on aesthetic stuff and doesn't delve too much into gameplay mechanics, but anyone is free to add his/her opinion and additional suggestions on any aspect about the Byzantine civilization in Civilization VII which will most likely arrive not in the base game but later.

Leaders
I would like Basil II again as the leader but since he was in Civilization VI I highly doubt he will be in Civilization VII, so I would suggest one of these four: Constantine I, Heraclius, Irene Sarantapechaena, Alexios I Komnenos. I still believe Justinian I has a high chance to be the leader again, but I wouldn't prefer him. A non-emperor excellent choice would be Belisarius. In the cases of Constantine I, Justinian I, Belisarius, they will speak Latin something that will disassociate them with the Greek character of Byzantium so Irene of Athens, Basil II, Alexios I or Heraclius might be the better choice.

Civilization Ability
The Civilization ability will either be Diplomatic, Economic or Religious. If it's Diplomatic, then the focus should be on faster and cheaper diplomatic actions and agreements with Independent People and other Civilizations. If it's Economic then, the focus should be on farms, plantations and trading. More gold from farms and plantations or maybe the trade routes that reach the capital will produce more happiness and gold than usual. Finally, if it is Religious then, it will be like Civilization VI with a focus on a crusade like ability that leads to faster conquest of cities with the same religion, after all the Byzantines were the ones that started the Crusades.

Units
Both the Dromon and the Tagma/Kataphraktoi/Klivanophoroi need to return. I would like to see gilded/bronze masked helmets again for the Tagma since they looked amazing in Civilization VI. Maybe some models could be with a metal mask and some only with chain mail covering the entire face for some additional variety. An interesting ability for the Tagma would be to have increased combat strength when close to the capital. A bit out of theme (see what I did there) but it would be a nice touch if the Commander looked like a Byzantine emperor.

The Varangian Guard is another choice, but I would advise against it because the unit had a strong Viking appearance in the earlier centuries of its existence and because Humankind chose it too. The unit was also comprised by foreigners (Rus, Scandinavians, Anglo-Saxons) instead of the other two Military Units who were made of natives. The Varangians will also conflict with a possible Scandinavian Berserker unit. If the development team wants to add a Civilian Unit, then the Patriarches can work as a special religious unit.


Infrastructures
Unique Infrastructures can be a lot of things. Theodosian Walls, a stronger variation of medieval walls. The infamous Hippodrome, focusing on happiness. The Parecclesion, an Orthodox Byzantine chapel building focusing on religion or the Mone, a monastery improvement that focuses on religion and culture.


Wonder
The Hagia Sophia would be nice for once to look more Byzantine, just as it looked before the Ottoman era. Building the wonder in past titles as the Byzantines was inaccurate and broke immersion, the four minarets around the wonder and the lack of a cross on the top of the dome signify the conquest and end of Byzantium. Especially now that there are associated wonders the Byzantines need to have a more accurate Christian Hagia Sophia. The Ottomans can have the Blue Mosque or the Selimiye Mosque instead as a wonder. If Firaxis can't change the appearance of the Hagia Sophia, then maybe the Hippodrome of Constantine, the Church of the Holy Apostles of Constantinople or Hagia Irene can become the associated wonder for Byzantium.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Units
Both the Dromon and the Tagma/Kataphraktoi/Klivanophoroi need to return. I would like to see gilded/bronze masked helmets again for the Tagma since they looked amazing in Civilization VI. Maybe some models could be with a metal mask and some only with chain mail covering the face for some additional variety. An interesting ability for the Tagma would be to have increased combat strength when close to the capital. A bit out of theme (see what I did there) but it would be a nice touch if the Commander looked like a Byzantine emperor.

The Varangian Guard is another choice, but I would advise against it because the unit had a strong Viking appearance in the earlier centuries of its existence and because Humankind chose it too. The unit was also comprised by foreigners (Rus, Scandinavians, Anglo-Saxons) instead of the other two Military Units who were made of natives. The Varangians will also conflict with a possible Scandinavian Berserker unit. If the development team wants to add a Civilian Unit, then the Patriarches can work as a special religious unit.

I would love for the Dromon to come back. The only problem that I see is I feel like it would be outclassed very quickly by many other naval units of the age, unlike before where you could get it at the beginning of the game. Though I guess if the Chola and Majapahit would be in the same age, they might be comparable with those UU ships.

I also think a Patriarches would work well as a special religious unit. Depending on how religion works maybe each one that you produce you could add another creed/tenet to your religion.

As far as the Tagma/Cathapract goes, I'd rather a unique version of it to go with a Sassanid Persia civ. Of course I'd call it an Aswaran. I find it more fitting with them because they did originate in Persia.

 

[The Fanatical]

I would love for the Dromon to come back. The only problem that I see is I feel like it would be outclassed very quickly by many other naval units of the age, unlike before where you could get it at the beginning of the game. Though I guess if the Chola and Majapahit would be in the same age, they might be comparable with those UU ships.

I also think a Patriarches would work well as a special religious unit. Depending on how religion works maybe each one that you produce you could add another creed/tenet to your religion.

As far as the Tagma/Cathapract goes, I'd rather a unique version of it to go with a Sassanid Persia civ. Of course I'd call it an Aswaran. I find it more fitting with them because they did originate in Persia.

The good thing about the Dromon is that its ability to breathe flame on other ships in water was so powerful that the unit can work wonders on any Age before the inclusion of cannons on ships.

While the fully armoured horseman originated in the East, there are many variations in names and enough different depictions to warrant a cataphract Military Unit for both the Sassanids and the Byzantines. The Sassanian version can be called Zhayedan, Grivpanvar or Aswaran as you mentioned. The Byzantine version can be named Tagma, Kataphraktoi or Klivanophoroi. The Sassanian unit can have a ranged attack with a bow as well as a melee one similar to how the Immortal Unique Unit worked from Civilization VI, the Byzantine unit can carry a shield and will only have a melee attack in order to differentiate it from the Sassanian version.

If the Tagma doesn't come back as the default Military Unit for the Byzantines, then I really hope it will return as part of a Byzantine leader's ability. It's so iconic, and can be viewed as the symbol of the Byzantine military to such an extent that its complete absence would be noticeable in a negative way. Having a generic Western European looking knight unit for the Byzantines won't look fitting either.

 

[Acepox]

Mainly this thread focuses on aesthetic stuff and doesn't delve too much into gameplay mechanics, but anyone is free to add his/her opinion and additional suggestions on any aspect about the Byzantine civilization in Civilization VII which will most likely arrive not in the base game but later.

Leaders
I would like Basil II again as the leader but since he was in Civilization VI I highly doubt he will be in Civilization VII, so I would suggest one of these four: Constantine I, Heraclius, Irene Sarantapechaena, Alexios I Komnenos. I still believe Justinian I has a high chance to be the leader again, but I wouldn't prefer him. A non-emperor excellent choice would be Belisarius. In the cases of Constantine I, Justinian I, Belisarius, they will speak Latin something that will disassociate them with the Greek character of Byzantium so Irene of Athens, Basil II, Alexios I or Heraclius might be the better choice.

Civilization Ability
The Civilization ability will either be Diplomatic, Economic or Religious. If it's Diplomatic, then the focus should be on faster and cheaper diplomatic actions and agreements with Independent People and other Civilizations. If it's Economic then, the focus should be on farms, plantations and trading. More gold from farms and plantations or maybe the trade routes that reach the capital will produce more happiness and gold than usual. Finally, if it is Religious then, it will be like Civilization VI with a focus on a crusade like ability that leads to faster conquest of cities with the same religion, after all the Byzantines were the ones that started the Crusades.

Units
Both the Dromon and the Tagma/Kataphraktoi/Klivanophoroi need to return. I would like to see gilded/bronze masked helmets again for the Tagma since they looked amazing in Civilization VI. Maybe some models could be with a metal mask and some only with chain mail covering the face for some additional variety. An interesting ability for the Tagma would be to have increased combat strength when close to the capital. A bit out of theme (see what I did there) but it would be a nice touch if the Commander looked like a Byzantine emperor.
View attachment 705225View attachment 705245

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The Varangian Guard is another choice, but I would advise against it because the unit had a strong Viking appearance in the earlier centuries of its existence and because Humankind chose it too. The unit was also comprised by foreigners (Rus, Scandinavians, Anglo-Saxons) instead of the other two Military Units who were made of natives. The Varangians will also conflict with a possible Scandinavian Berserker unit. If the development team wants to add a Civilian Unit, then the Patriarches can work as a special religious unit.


Infrastructures
Unique Infrastructures can be a lot of things. Theodosian Walls, a stronger variation of medieval walls. The infamous Hippodrome, focusing on happiness. The Parecclesion, an Orthodox Byzantine chapel building focusing on religion or the Mone, a monastery improvement that focuses on religion and culture.


Wonder
The Hagia Sophia would be nice for once to look more Byzantine, just as it looked before the Ottoman era. Building the wonder in past titles as the Byzantines was inaccurate and broke immersion, the four minarets around the wonder and the lack of a cross on the top of the dome signify the conquest and end of Byzantium. Especially now that there are associated wonders the Byzantines need to have a more accurate Christian Hagia Sophia. The Ottomans can have the Blue Mosque or the Selimiye Mosque instead as a wonder. If Firaxis can't change the appearance of the Hagia Sophia, then maybe the Hippodrome of Constantine or Hagia Irene can become the associated wonder for Byzantium.
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Good stuff, I love it!

They simply can't not have Byzantium! It would be egregious!

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Mine..
1. Successor of either Greece or Roma
2. Default leader is either Constantin I or Theodora
UU would be dromon
replaces cog, availables earlier.
UC would be religious.

Byzantium is best being Expansion civ.

 

[Kyriakos]

For emperors:
Any of the Komnenoi (Alexios being the first choice), obviously Basil II, the two before him in the Macedonian Dynasty (Ioannes Tzimiskes and Nikephoros Phokas).
I had once modelled (with Blender) the Hagia Sophia, and yes, the models for Civ simply are not good.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

^ Were you also a person who did model units for Warfare Exanded mod series before?

 

[Kyriakos]

^ Were you also a person who did model units for Warfare Exanded mod series before?

No

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

From what I see here. there are reasons standard 'Civ6' (or even 5) models tend not to turn out good--simplifications... not to strain player's machine.
the best bet is actual ingame test.

 

[Kyriakos]

I don't mind blocky, as long as they try to look like the thing. The Hagia Sophia models were historically terrible (and not just in the Civ games; look at those for Age of Empires II, which isn't even full 3d but isometric)
Mind you it's not easy to make a decent model of it.

 

[Uberfrog]

If it hadn’t been for Augustus returning, I’d have been very happy to see Constantine I as a leader bridging Rome and Byzantium.

Could still happen of course.

I think an Exploration era slot makes the usual Byzantine uniques a little awkward - especially the Dromon and Hippodrome. I’d like to see a bit more on the religious side of things, and to see Byzantium as a defensive tall continuation of an Antiquity era Roman start.

 

[pokiehl]

For emperors:
Any of the Komnenoi (Alexios being the first choice), obviously Basil II, the two before him in the Macedonian Dynasty (Ioannes Tsizmiskes and Nikephoros Phokas).
I had once modelled (with Blender) the Hagia Sophia, and yes, the models for Civ simply are not good.

View attachment 705346

The models for Civ are intentionally stylized, not “terrible.” The model above might be more accurate (I couldn’t tell you either way), but it is too detailed and doesn’t fit in with the Civ 7 (or Civ 6) art style.

 

[Kyriakos]

The models for Civ are intentionally stylized, not “terrible.” The model above might be more accurate (I couldn’t tell you either way), but it is too detailed and doesn’t fit in with the Civ 7 (or Civ 6) art style.

Ok, (wink wink )
What I mean is that I am very ok with a non-detailed model which, however, actually maintains the basic analogies of the building it is supposed to represent (eg say relative distance of the central dome to the edges).
I have seen many Hagia Sophia models (in many games) that simply look nothing like it at all.

 

[The Fanatical]

If it hadn’t been for Augustus returning, I’d have been very happy to see Constantine I as a leader bridging Rome and Byzantium.

Could still happen of course.

I think an Exploration era slot makes the usual Byzantine uniques a little awkward - especially the Dromon and Hippodrome. I’d like to see a bit more on the religious side of things, and to see Byzantium as a defensive tall continuation of an Antiquity era Roman start.

Constantine I would be great, but Byzantium will undoubtedly have Greek words for its abilities, infrastructures and units in order to differ a bit from Rome, so an emperor that spoke Medieval Greek might be more fitting. Although Constantine I, Justinian I and Belisarius might have also spoken Greek, so depicting them like that might not be an issue.

A core defensive playstyle that can turn into an offensive one with an appropriate military leader would be the best design for the Byzantines. They were mostly on the defensive, but some emperors led successful military campaigns and reconquered lost areas of the empire.

 

[Zaarin]

Any of the Komnenoi (Alexios being the first choice)

Alexios I Komnenos or Anna Komnene are at the top of my Byzantine leader wishlist. I'd have found Anna Komnene a strange choice before (especially in the face of choices like Irene, whom I would also welcome TBH), but I think she fits Civ7's approach well.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Constantine I would be great, but Byzantium will undoubtedly have Greek words for its abilities, infrastructures and units in order to differ a bit from Rome, so an emperor that spoke Medieval Greek might be more fitting. Although Constantine I, Justinian I and Belisarius might have also spoken Greek, so depicting them like that might not be an issue.

I was thinking that if the Basilica wasn't taken by Rome, that would have made a great unique building. But since that's the Roman word, the Byzantines could just use the Greek term Vasiliki.
I mean Greece and Rome already have two unique temples, so why can't Rome and the Byzantines have two unique basilicas.
Of course, the Byzantines could use theirs for religious purposes and not governmental purposes.

 

[The Fanatical]

I was thinking that if the Basilica wasn't taken by Rome, that would have made a great unique building. But since that's the Roman word, the Byzantines could just use the Greek term Vasiliki.
I mean Greece and Rome already have two unique temples, so why can't Rome and the Byzantines have two unique basilicas.
Of course, the Byzantines could use theirs for religious purposes and not governmental purposes.

Yes, I thought of that as well. The word Ekklesia is taken by Greece too. The word Perecclesion would be a nice alternative for a Byzantine religious building.

 

[RedCourtJester]

Alexios I Komnenos or Anna Komnene are at the top of my Byzantine leader wishlist. I'd have found Anna Komnene a strange choice before (especially in the face of choices like Irene, whom I would also welcome TBH), but I think she fits Civ7's approach well.

The only reason I give Irene the edge is she ties back to Greece well (and I don't think we are getting an antiquity Greek leader at launch, they just don't facilitate a good three-era narrative like other antiquity leaders for Persia, Egypt, India, China, and Japan). But I would love Anna just as much, maybe more.

(But even still, I kind of want Irene, specifically if her playstyle involves playing hard-to-get with religion. "Yes, I want iconoclasm, no I don't, wait no I want it again.")

 

[Zaarin]

I don't think we are getting an antiquity Greek leader at launch

I'd be mildly surprised if Alexander were a DLC leader for a second game in a row, even though I grant he is good DLC bait.

"Yes, I want iconoclasm, no I don't, wait no I want it again."

Works for Byzantium, but as far as I know Irene was consistently on the iconophile side (albeit quietly during her iconoclast husband's reign).

 

[RedCourtJester]

I'd be mildly surprised if Alexander were a DLC leader for a second game in a row, even though I grant he is good DLC bait.


Works for Byzantium, but as far as I know Irene was consistently on the iconophile side (albeit quietly during her iconoclast husband's reign).

I have a more abstracted away hunch that Alexander will fall into a special category of civ/leader combinations that Napoleon is our first example of. Something about Napoleon I think makes France into "Super France," because at the very least he would be the first leader in my speculation (and most people's I'd wager) who necessarily follows the exact antiquity-exploration leader as another leader, namely Ben Franklin. I think in the same way Napoleon took over all of Europe in a weird "surge" that kind of screws with "the world order" as it is defined by more intuitive civ progressions, that Alexander took over all of the Middle East and disappeared almost instantly certainly merits turning Greece into "Super Greece."

I think Mesopotamian civs will be treated similarly mechanically even if they aren't "Super Civs," because they can't all just "progress through Persia," that would be boring. I think they will be special pluripotential starting points.