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The Capital (Buff the palace!)

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Archon_Wing, Oct 17, 2018.

  1. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    One thing I find a bit underwhelming is that your capital is often just another city.

    I mean, sure, nobody can burn it down, it has 3 extra defense (lol), and has like 1 more housing and some base yields but those are necessary to even play the game with. Past the early game the capital doesn't really have much value outside of a domination victory. So maybe the capital could get more boosts early on.

    At the same time, I think a stronger palace would also help offset bad starts, especially coastal starts or ones without luxuries.

    Likewise with the goverment plaza. Right now, I see the Government Plaza as more of a "dump district" where you just crank out the buildings for abilities and promotions but the actual placement of it really isn't that important. The thing about a district that improves other districts is that you need other districts near it to begin with.

    Of course, these things if done too heavy handedly could devalue the importance of playing your start and Autocracy could already be considered too good already. I really think they should do something about Republic, but ....

    I guess it comes down to housing being incredibly oppressive early game, which I think is actually a design intent as it would take time for people to be able to develop ways to have big cities but currently a lot of players simply ignore it completely and don't grow past size 6 which kinda tosses a lot of the game away.
     
  2. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Warlord

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    I agree though it does get benefits from early city-state points. Maybe it could get similar benefits from finding other civs, or accomplishing other things early game.
     
  3. UWHabs

    UWHabs Warlord

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    For whatever reason, I find it rare that my capital is not one of my 2-3 best cities. It naturally gets the bonuses from the first city-state envoy, and generally it does fairly well.

    Now, I can definitely understand feeling underwhelmed at the government plaza. The city that builds that just doesn't feel special, and the fact that it eats up a district spot almost always seems to make that city feel even worse. At most it gives you like +3 or +4 to adjacent district yields, but even that's not much. Wouldn't mind it seeing return the same yields as the palace (2p/1c/2s/5g/1h/1a), which would certainly give the city that builds it a nice little bonus.

    The only other thing you could do would be to give it increasing yields every era. If in the modern era it gave you like 10 of each resource, then maybe that would make the capital feel more special.
     
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  4. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Warlord Supporter

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    I'm very disappointed that the development team took away the ability to change where your seat of government (palace) is. Yes, they also took away the corruption mechanism that was the main reason to want to move your capital, but I still dislike that the only way you can move the palace bonuses around is to let your capital be captured.

    And even then, despite being an all powerful leader who can decide how many babies your people have on a city-by-city basis, you can't decide where to set up your new capital??? There's a severe disconnect in some Civ 6 game design decisions between what you have control over and what you don't.

    To the comments above, having more palace bonuses would indeed help to smooth out starting position impact. An even better approach, I think, is to give every civ three starting Settlers (having the second and third ones pop when the first and second city are settled, same approach as the AI gets on Deity).

    The relative yields of three starting cities should be more evenly distributed than the relative yields of a single starting city.
     
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  5. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Warlord

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    You could also give base yields to the gov buildings--different yields for the buildings at each level, adding another layer of choice for those
     
  6. Sostratus

    Sostratus Chieftain

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    I am very surprised the policy card God King does not have any follow up cards. Virtually every card is a wide card, so the idea here would be that an empire that had a tough location and really needed a way to boost its core city - or if you were playing quite small- could sacrifice a card that normally confers a wide per city benefit (not useful in these situations) and exchange it for some targeted benefits. Civ4 had a government option "bureaucracy" that gave the capital +50% production and commerce, but did nothing else. Same idea with more god King cards: the palace provides extra benefits. By the end of the game this might mean an economic card to make the capital a real powerhouse (For how the game is balanced, +33%, production, gold and tourism wouldn't be extreme) and a diplomatic card (perhaps the capital can get more potent envoy bonuses in its districts?) One could even envisage an early/mid game military card focused on making the capital an impregnable fortress with +ranged strike and +defensive strength, in case you really get the short end of the montezuma stick.

    I'm just surprised they never included more cards that focus on the capital or your largest N cities instead of all cards all cities all the time.
     
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  7. Nigel_Tufnel2

    Nigel_Tufnel2 Chieftain

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    I would be in favor of the Government Plaza not counting towards the district limit in the capital city.
     
  8. ezysquire

    ezysquire Chieftain

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    It'd be nice if the palace had another artifact slot.
     
  9. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

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    I have found that it is better to wait and place the government plaza later in the game. I use it to get a foothold on another continent because the loyalty bonuses are fantastic to keeping small cities which are conquered from revolting. Ideal timing will have the government plaza finishing up when the Casa Dde Contractión becomes available. I like to finish the plaza district, build the wonder, and then crank out the three government buildings in the plaza. You can use the added benefit of the diplomacy card giving +2 loyalty to governors as well with all of the governor slots opened up in a short time frame with this method. This is much more useful than building the government plaza in the capital or another early city.
     
  10. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Warlord

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    This so much. Lately I've just been avoiding building it until mid game. Which makes the tier 1 building not so great, but oh well.
     
  11. Tech Osen

    Tech Osen Chieftain

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    With R&F they put in some cards that boost cities with governors. Don't even remember what they do atm, don't think I ever used them but making those more useful could boost tall playstyle.
     
  12. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

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    The Ancestral Hall can be a very potent addition in the mid game. I find that in the early game I like to conquer the civs near me. Once I am ready to build settlers to colonize another continent, it is generally the medieval or renaissance era. Building the Government Plaza on the new continent along with an Ancestral Hall will give a bonus to building settlers for the colonization and a free builder when they settle. As mentioned above, the Government Plaza and new governors help with the Loyalty on the new continent.
     
  13. kaltorak

    kaltorak Chieftain

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    I like cities beeing good based on the terrain. While I like playing tall, and I miss it from civ5, I dont really liked that no matter what good land I found, my capital was always my best city period. It still is in civ6, just not by so much.
     
  14. Arent11

    Arent11 Chieftain

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    (1) The government plaza should be important for *large* empires *late* in the game. It is ridiculous how I am forced to built it early on with only 3 or 4 cities, as if such a small empire would need a great government instead of a market or an encampment.

    (2) It was always fun to build your palace as 'reward' for growing a large civ. Which has now been replaced somehow by the government plaza. Actually, having a 'warlords throne' in your plaza sounds more like a palace to me than the placeholder in the capital.

    Maybe they should force you to build the government plaza in the capital and make the palace coincide with it. It would give you more the impression that this is truly the center of your empire.
     
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  15. acluewithout

    acluewithout Warlord

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    This. So much this.

    There was an earlier thread about this. I suggested: (1) move Gov Plaza back to Medieval era, (2) make the current Tier 1 Government Buildings instead mutually exclusive buildings you can build only in your Capital, and (3) create a new Tier 1 Government building (eg High Court, or maybe Parliament / Senate... that sort of thing).
     
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  16. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Warlord

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    This could definitely work since Warlord's Throne and Audience Chamber sound like additions to what a Palace would have anyway. The way that Audience Chamber works in game however is more in line to what I think an Assembly Chamber (legislative building) is anyway, but that's another matter of what I think. I think moving it to unlock at Civil Service would work.
    As for forcing the district it to be in the capital, I don't necessarily like that idea. Historically the center of where your government is, was not always where the head of the state resided.
     
  17. BarbarianHunter

    BarbarianHunter Chieftain

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    While I generally agree with acluewithout's sentiments, as well as many others posted, if you were to move the Government Plaza the T1 legacy card to the medieval era you would lose an important strategic choice: Which legacy card to choose. For me it’s not much of a choice, as I generally go very wide and find the longer term investment in republican legacy (+1 amenity for any city with a district) outweighs and shorter term combat bonuses I might garner from the oligarchic legacy card (+4 melee strength to all non-cav & non-bombard class units). But I have to build the plaza in order to unlock the republican legacy card before I reach a T2 government or I lose it forever. Mesix’s idea is also compelling, but the early access to the legacy card is still my 1st choice. if I want it I have to suffer and build the plaza though.

    I find this choice one of the more important ones that I make and has meaningful and lasting impact on my happiness level for the rest of the game. Switching the build to the medieval might make the game more rational but also perhaps easier. Which is a fairly common issue I hear on the boards.


    I really like the idea of the government plaza not taking a district slot in regard to max # of districts a city can have.

    Regarding placement, I agree with Alexander's Hetaroi's sentiment that you should be able to place it anywhere.
     
  18. row2infinity

    row2infinity Chieftain

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    For what it's worth, after it was first introduced, I totally used to completely bypass building the government district until I tweaked my play style and building priorities early game and realized how powerful audience chamber can be if timed right and how powerful royal society can be if you're going for a space victory. Not to mention so many extra Governor promotions is awesome. I don't feel the need to buff the Palace more though because the capital city by no means needs to be the most productive, largest, richest, most scientifically prolific city in any civ. That's just a silly assumption. If you looked at Washington DC in real life, I don't think anyone would claim it to be any of those things other than a location of government. I would be interested to hear examples of countries where the center of government is not located in the capital though? I can't really think of any off the top of my head, I must not be familiar I guess.
     
  19. BarbarianHunter

    BarbarianHunter Chieftain

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    Maybe give a bonus yield of some sort if constructed in the capital as per UWHabs idea, but still be able to construct it anywhere if you forego the yield bonus.
     
  20. acluewithout

    acluewithout Warlord

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    You just tie the first legacy card to the Audience Chamber, Warlords Throne etc. that you build in your capital. The new Gov Plaza Tier 1 building instead doesn’t give any Legacy Card (although the Tier 2 and 3 Buildings would give legacy cards). To make the whole thing work, you’d probably have to make it that you couldn’t build the Governmenr Plaza and or Tier 1 GP building until you’d built the Tier 1 Capital Building.

    I’m not hugely fussed what the tier 1 GP building would then do. At one end, it could be something as powerful as an Economic Card Slot; but at the other end, it could be just additional loyalty and or Governor title. Either way, I think it should probably be something like a Parliament (it’s nuts you can build a War Ministry but not have a Parliament). Each Civ could maybe have a different name for this building - eg China and America might have a Congress, Rome might have a Senate. That would add a tiny bit of flavour.
     
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