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The Carthaginians

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by Ision, Jun 30, 2004.

  1. Ision

    Ision Master

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    The Carthaginians by Zardnaar

    Carthage was one of the great cities of the classical era. Founded by Phoenicians they built up an empire based on commerce. Carthage fought 3 Punic Wars with the emerging power of Rome and lost all of them. Hannibal was famous for leading an army containing elephants across the alps and inflicting a massive defeat on the Romans at Cannae in the 2nd Punic war. The Romans eventually razed Carthage to the ground in 146 BC after a 3-year siege.

    In the game Carthage has the traits seafaring and industrious and the Numidian Mercenary for its unique unit (UU). Although not bad traits by themselves together they have little synergy and achieve little compared to some other civs. For most of the game Carthage has cheap harbors and fast workers. Like the historical Carthage its power rests on its ability to trade resources and gold. On an island map 1st contact should be made with as many AI civs as possible- Carthage makes an excellent tech broker civ. Being able to build cheap harbors its easy to trade obsolete techs to AI civs in exchange for luxury and strategic resources. You also start with masonry and alphabet techs- excellent techs for early wonder building and a head start towards philosophy and the Great Library. With masonry you can easily do the palace pre-build for any wonders you decide to build. Like most seafaring civs however Carthage is weaker on pangea maps.

    For the builder/culture player Carthage is at best a 2nd rate civ. They have few cheap improvements and no cheap culture buildings. Unlike other non-religious or scientific civs their trait combo doesn't lend itself to rapid growth or high shield production. Although they have the industrious trait it is perhaps the weakest industrial civ in the game. They're not a bad builder civ just very average. Carthage is one civ the AI tends to play very badly- other civs out expand it and the AI is busy building a 30 shield UU to early in the game.

    In just about every game sooner or later one of the AI civs will attack you or you decide to liberate some AI territory. Carthage’s UU is a good, dependable and reliable unit. For 30 shields you get a 2-3-1 Numidian Mercenary (available with bronze working) that requires no resources to build. It also has a very long shelf life- it doesn't become obsolete until the early industrial age. Basically it’s a super pikemen you can build very early on. However a slight drawback is you can't build spearmen and at 30 shields it’s a pain to build early on with small cities. The NM starts to shine in the Middle Ages once your cities have the production to build them in large numbers. As a UU it is average to weak but is still better than a normal pikeman. Its somewhat awkward to use as well as the 2 attack value isn't really used that much and is risky for a 30 shield unit. However in those games where you don't get any iron the NM is an excellent unit to have in a poor mans army of catapults and archers. It seems to be a situational UU- great in its element weaker outside of it. Despite some minor drawbacks you get a 3 defense value unit a whole age ahead of when you normally would- if you're willing to pay for it. Overall its a solid UU but is the weakest out of the defensive UU units. If it matters its one of the best looking units in the game. Overall Carthage is at best a 2nd tier warmonger civ.

    Summary. On island maps Carthage can be a 1st tier civ. On pangea and most continent maps it falls a long way down to a 3rd tier civ. Overall I would rate it as a low 2nd tier civ. Its not a bad civ but is average in virtually every way. Even some of the weaker civs have more interesting UUs or traits. In its niche- an ironless island empire its one of the best civs in the game. Also wins the top 5 best-looking UU award.

    Side note: Ision rates this CIV as 3rd tier overall.

    below is the link to all the other civ reviews:

    link to all the civ reviews
     
  2. dgfred

    dgfred Sports Freak

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    Great Review once again :thumbsup: Just curious- What IS you top 5 best-
    looking list :D :scan: ?
     
  3. Suleyman

    Suleyman Chieftain

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    hey good review..... however its wierd but whenever i play a game and a computer player is playing with carthage they are usually very powerful throughout the game... coincidence? i think not :confused: ... by the way i usually play on pangea and continent maps...
     
  4. Persia_Immortal

    Persia_Immortal Stealthy Assasin

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    Nice review :goodjob:
    As you said the Numi Merc is a gud UU in the ancient age
     
  5. nullspace

    nullspace King

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    Zardnaar didn't say that! He called the Numidian Merc "average to weak", "awkward", "situational", and "weakest out of the defensive UU units." OK, those quotes are a bit out of context and he did have some good things to say about the merc, but it's not a particularly great UU. A unit with 3 defense in the ancient age is nice, and so is a pikeman without a resource requirement, but at 30 shields its not really a bargain. At that cost, I'm sometimes left wishing that I could build a basic spearman instead.
     
  6. bradleyfeanor

    bradleyfeanor King

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    I have found Carthage to be an excellent warmongering civ at high difficulty levels, you just have to "leader farm" with them. Numidian armies rule the map in the ancient age, and are still useful in the mid industrial age. The AI will not attack them, even if he has hundreds of cavalry (this isn't exaggeration, I experienced it in a Sid level game). I use them to pillage indiscriminately, and to escort stacks of trebuchets or cannons to the enemy capitol. It's kind of an exploit I suppose, but the AI can't stop them.
     
  7. dmanakho

    dmanakho Deity

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    Nice review, but not as informational as the previous reviews were.
     
  8. Longasc

    Longasc Deity

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    I must agree, is it just because the Carthaginians have so little specialties and are rather mediocre to the point of being boring?

    One thing: Some people said in Multiplayer the Num Merc is really a demon. True?

    Otherwise, little can be said about them I think.

    The brown color would better fit Germany for reasons I won't explain. :)
     
  9. Global Nexus

    Global Nexus Terran Confederate

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    Odd. I greatly enjoy playing as Carthage, and find that I can make a lot of progress with them. I enjoy the traits, and the UU [even if it's not the best ever, I'm certain some nasty strategies can be built around it], and just the general feeling of playing them. Myself, I like the underdog "low-tier" civs anyway, just because it's fun to try and play an odd civilization.
     
  10. WeaponX

    WeaponX Hound-Dog

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    Yeah! Stick it to em!. He also said that it shines in the middle age not ancient age because of its high sheild cost.

    Anywho, good review.
     
  11. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    Fair enough. I had trouble thinking up enough things to write about Carthage. After multiple games with them I find them a boring civ to play.
     
  12. kb2tvl

    kb2tvl King

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    I wanted to add, if I play carthage I will build archers or warriors for MP. In the late middle ages I will start buliding NM. This is due to the build time on NM. Sometimes you need MP and quality is less of an issue.
     
  13. GrandSultan

    GrandSultan Full Time Hypocrite

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    Another great review, I must say that your rewiews have helped me tremendously.
    I can't wait till you do the Incas, one of the main reasons I bought Conquests was to play as the Incas but whenever I do play as them I always seem to end up on the bottom... GJ :)
     
  14. Ision

    Ision Master

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    I am no longer the sole author of the civ reviews. As of now both Zardnaar and scoutsout are writing reviews as well.

    This review was written Zardnaar........... thank him........

    Ision
     
  15. Saturno

    Saturno Chieftain

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    In Multiplayer Games I build one Numidian early and send for some enemy territory, he can pillage all around and it's hard to eliminate, he will become Veterar and Elite... Can get enemy workers too...
     
  16. Boli

    Boli Warlord

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    The Merc. IS one of the best ancient UU by far... but it takes some practice to know how to use it.

    Against AI and cities... it is rightly weak... and generally sucks as an offensive unit

    BUT: a few used as scouts to pop all the goody huts... survive the barbarians and even farm barb. villages for cash is what I use the NM for the most. Add to that dig in on a hill and you'll be hard pressed to dig them out before the advent of gunpowder and/or catapults. They are perfect for boxing in the AI... allowing you to expand behind a wall of NM... they are more suited to continatel maps than Arcpellado I think for this easy expansion in the beginning. becasue of this advantage.

    Thery are very similar to hopiles in that respect but that additional atack of 2 allows you to take down workers / catapults / barbarians with much more regularity.

    If you treat the NM as a scout that is VERY hard to kill, and able to fortify to keep AI units out... you won't go far wrong.

    NB: Was disappointed they were rated so low... :(
     
  17. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    Boli they're not a bad civ and the UU is OK. But theres around 15 civs that have better UU and traits.
     
  18. Boli

    Boli Warlord

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    Yeah... as I said I was just a bit disappointed they are rated so low. as they mirror my style of play really well and I rarely loose a game using them.

    Just think of it as being told yor favourite car is a POS compared to the new lotus for example... *sniff*
     
  19. majk-iii

    majk-iii Eeh?

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    ...however, if you dont get iron untill late aa or ma, it's not so bad with the Numidian Mercenary... nor is it so bad if you dont get any salpeter... i hardly ever find it worthwhile to upgrade to muskets anyway. Paying out for a meesly +1 def seems rather redundant at times. Sure cavalry is nice but if u really have to, u can easily make due with a few stacks of NM's and trebuches.
     
  20. Pook

    Pook Bloviating

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    Great idea!... I never thought of that. I usually avoid goody huts unless I'm an expansionist civ. I played as Carthage a couple of weeks ago, and I wish I had known that strategy.
     

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