The Case Against George W Bush

Formaldehyde

Both Fair And Balanced
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The topic of whether or not George W Bush and his administration intentionally lied to Congress and the American people to invade Iraq recently came up in another thread.

Berzerker suggested that it would make a good thread all by itself, so here it is.

As soon as the facts started to emerge which directly contradicted their statements, Bush and his defenders have tried to spin this as a failure of intelligence, instead of a deliberate attempt on the part of Bush and some of his top advisers to lie to and deceive the American public. Somehow they even managed to get those who knew better to remain silent until recently, even though they were the ones who were blamed.

Mother Jones: George W. Bush's CIA Briefer: Bush and Cheney Falsely Presented WMD Intelligence to Public

For a dozen years, the Bush-Cheney crowd have been trying to escape—or cover up—an essential fact of the W. years: President George Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, and their lieutenants misled the American public about the WMD threat supposedly posed by Saddam Hussein in order to grease the way to the invasion of Iraq. For Bush, Cheney, and the rest, this endeavor is fundamental; it is necessary to protect the legitimacy of the Bush II presidency. Naturally, Karl Rove and other Bushies have quickly tried to douse the Bush-lied-us-into-war fire whenever such flames have appeared. And in recent days, as Jeb Bush bumbled a question about the Iraq War, he and other GOPers have peddled the fictitious tale that his brother launched the invasion because he was presented lousy intelligence. But now there's a new witness who will make the Bush apologists' mission even more impossible: Michael Morell, a longtime CIA official who eventually became the agency's deputy director and acting director. During the preinvasion period, he served as Bush's intelligence briefer.

Appearing on MSNBC's Hardball on Tuesday night, Morell made it clear: The Bush-Cheney administration publicly misrepresented the intelligence related to Iraq's supposed WMD program and Saddam's alleged links to Al Qaeda.

Host Chris Matthews asked Morell about a statement Cheney made in 2003: "We know he [Saddam Hussein] has been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons. And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons." Here's the conversation that followed:

MATTHEWS: Was that true?

MORELL: We were saying—

MATTHEWS: Can you answer that question? Was that true?

MORELL: That's not true.

MATTHEWS: Well, why'd you let them get away with it?

MORELL: Look, my job Chris—

MATTHEWS: You're the briefer for the president on intelligence, you're the top person to go in and tell him what's going on. You see Cheney make this charge he's got a nuclear bomb and then they make subsequent charges he knew how to deliver it…and nobody raised their hand and said, "No that's not what we told him."

MORELL: Chris, Chris Chris, what's my job, right? My job—

MATTHEWS: To tell the truth.

MORELL: My job—no, as the briefer? As the briefer?

MATTHEWS: Okay, go ahead.

MORELL: As the briefer, my job is to carry CIA's best information and best analysis to the president of the United States and make sure he understands it. My job is to not watch what they're saying on TV.

The discussion went on:

MATTHEWS: So you're briefing the president on the reasons for war, they're selling the war, using your stuff, saying you made that case when you didn't. So they're using your credibility to make the case for war dishonestly, as you just admitted.

MORELL: Look, I'm just telling you—

MATTHEWS: You just admitted it.

MORELL: I'm just telling you what we said—

MATTHEWS: They gave a false presentation of what you said to them.

MORELL: On some aspects. On some aspects.

There's the indictment, issued by the intelligence officer who briefed Bush and Cheney: The Bush White House made a "false presentation" on "some aspects" of the case for war. "That's a big deal," Matthews exclaimed. Morell replied, "It's a big deal."

Here is the entire interview which contains even more incriminating statements. That is if you can stand to listen to Chris Matthews...:


Link to video.

George W. Bush didn't just lie about the Iraq War. What he did was much worse.

Not one of the conservatives running for president want to be associated with the last Republican president — not even his brother (for whom stepping away is rather complicated). After all, George W. Bush left office with an approval rating hovering in the low 30s, and his grandest project was the gigantic catastrophe of the Iraq War, which we're still dealing with and still debating. If you're a Republican right now you're no doubt wishing we could talk about something else, but failing that, you'd like the issue framed in a particular way: The war was an honest mistake, nobody lied to the public, and anything bad that's happening now is Barack Obama's fault.

For the moment I want to focus on the part about the lies. I've found over the years that conservatives who supported the war get particularly angry at the assertion that Bush lied us into war. No, they'll insist, it wasn't his fault: There was mistaken intelligence, he took that intelligence in good faith, and presented what he believed to be true at the time. It's the George Costanza defense: It's not a lie if you believe it.

Here's the problem, though. It might be possible, with some incredibly narrow definition of the word "lie," to say that Bush told only a few outright lies on Iraq. Most of what he said in order to sell the public on the war could be said to have some basis in something somebody thought or something somebody alleged (Bush was slightly more careful than Dick Cheney, who lied without hesitation or remorse). But if we reduce the question of Bush's guilt and responsibility to how many lies we can count, we miss the bigger picture.

What the Bush administration launched in 2002 and 2003 may have been the most comprehensive, sophisticated, and misleading campaign of government propaganda in American history. Spend too much time in the weeds, and you risk missing the hysterical tenor of the whole campaign.

That's not to say there aren't plenty of weeds. In 2008, the Center for Public Integrity completed a project in which they went over the public statements by eight top Bush administration officials on the topic of Iraq, and found that no fewer than 935 were false, including 260 statements by President Bush himself. But the theory on which the White House operated was that whether or not you could fool all of the people some of the time, you could certainly scare them out of their wits. That's what was truly diabolical about their campaign.

And it was a campaign. In the summer of 2002, the administration established something called the White House Iraq Group, through which Karl Rove and other communication strategists like Karen Hughes and Mary Matalin coordinated with policy officials to sell the public on the threat from Iraq in order to justify war. "The script had been finalized with great care over the summer," White House press secretary Scott McClellan later wrote, for a "campaign to convince Americans that war with Iraq was inevitable and necessary."

In that campaign, intelligence wasn't something to be understood and assessed by the administration in making their decisions, it was a propaganda tool to lead the public to the conclusion that the administration wanted. Again and again we saw a similar pattern: An allegation would bubble up from somewhere, some in the intelligence community would say that it could be true but others would say it was either speculation or outright baloney, but before you knew it the president or someone else was presenting it to the public as settled fact.

And each and every time the message was the same: If we didn't wage war, Iraq was going to attack the United States homeland with its enormous arsenal of ghastly weapons, and who knows how many Americans would perish. When you actually spell it out like that it sounds almost comical, but that was the Bush administration's assertion, repeated hundreds upon hundreds of time to a public still skittish in the wake of September 11. (Remember, the campaign for the war began less than a year after the September 11 attacks.)

Sometimes this message was imparted with specific false claims, sometimes with dark insinuation, and sometimes with speculation about the horrors to come ("We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud," said Bush and others when asked about the thinness of much of their evidence). Yet the conclusion was always the same: The only alternative to invading Iraq was waiting around to be killed. I could pick out any of a thousand quotes, but here's just one, from a radio address Bush gave on September 28, 2002:

The Iraqi regime possesses biological and chemical weapons, is rebuilding the facilities to make more and, according to the British government, could launch a biological or chemical attack in as little as 45 minutes after the order is given. The regime has long-standing and continuing ties to terrorist groups, and there are al Qaeda terrorists inside Iraq. This regime is seeking a nuclear bomb, and with fissile material could build one within a year.

What wasn't utterly false in that statement was disingenuous at best. But if there was anything that marked the campaign, it was its certainty. There was seldom any doubt expressed or admitted, seldom any hint that the information we had was incomplete, speculative, and the matter of fevered debate amongst intelligence officials. But that's what was going on beneath the administration's sales job.

The intelligence wasn't "mistaken," as the Bush administration's defenders would have us believe today. The intelligence was a mass of contradictions and differing interpretations. The administration picked out the parts that they wanted — supported, unsupported, plausible, absurd, it didn't matter — and used them in their campaign to turn up Americans' fear.

This is one of the many sins for which Bush and those who supported him ought to spend a lifetime atoning. He looked out at the American public and decided that the way to get what he wanted was to terrify them. If he could convince them that any day now their children would die a horrible death, that they and everything they knew would be turned to radioactive ash, and that the only chance of averting this fate was to say yes to him, then he could have his war. Lies were of no less value than truth, so long as they both created enough fear.

And it worked.

Do you think the American public, especially the conservatives who continue to deny the facts even today, will ever accept the truth about what occurred?

Should Obama's wishes that it remain forgotten and not criminally prosecuted in order for the nation to supposedly heal be followed?

Or should George Bush, Dick Cheney, and the others directly involved in this be tried in a court of law for war crimes and other atrocities against humanity directly resulting from this campaign of intentional deceit?
 
No, what is new is that the former CIA deputy director finally quit and wrote a book about his experiences. So it is now becoming virtually impossible to blame the intelligence community instead of the real culprits.

At the time, about 15% of the American public and most of Europe didn't buy into the intentional lies. But it certainly fooled a lot of people, even though the US has a habit of going to war under false pretenses.
 
Has Hillary already supplanted Obama as the source for all our misery and grief?
 
Yes, GW one of the worst presidents in US history.

:deadhorse:

I don't really get the point of this thread, except let me say that if we end up with Jeb vs Hillary I'll probably lose all faith in the US two party system (what very little I have left) and not even bother voting.
 
The problem with Obama is twofold - he was unpatriotic by not voting for W's authorization to go to war and unwise for not voting against it.
 
I don't really get the point of this thread, except let me say that if we end up with Jeb vs Hillary I'll probably lose all faith in the US two party system (what very little I have left) and not even bother voting.
We might get some people to disagree. I know there are a number in this forum.

And welcome to the club. I have voted a total of once my entire adult life. And that was in 2004 to do everything I possibly could to get Florida to go the right way this time. I know. That somehow makes me a terrible person that I think we get a choice between vanilla and chocolate ice cream most of the time when I really want cake.
 
The problem with Obama is twofold - he was unpatriotic by not voting for W's authorization to go to war and unwise for not voting against it.
And utterly irresponsible, to boot, because the young whippersnapper didn't even think to be a member of the US Senate at the time, and spent time dawdling in backwater politics.
 
Do you think the American public, especially the conservatives who continue to deny the facts even today, will ever accept the truth about what occurred?

Should Obama's wishes that it remain forgotten and not criminally prosecuted in order for the nation to supposedly heal be followed?

Or should George Bush, Dick Cheney, and the others directly involved in this be tried in a court of law for war crimes and other atrocities against humanity directly resulting from this campaign of intentional deceit?

I think it will continue to be denied for at least a decade and maybe until it is out of living memory. The hawkish establishment is back in force, and it suits them to spin stories of intelligence failures and good intentions gone awry.

This is not new, and was well known at the time.

They will not be brought to book, that won't be new either.

But, those that hath ears to hear, let them hear.

I think it was more well known outside of the US, but within our borders there is still a media that protects these guys.

We might get some people to disagree. I know there are a number in this forum.

And welcome to the club. I have voted a total of once my entire adult life. And that was in 2004 to do everything I possibly could to get Florida to go the right way this time. I know. That somehow makes me a terrible person that I think we get a choice between vanilla and chocolate ice cream most of the time when I really want cake.

I use those other opportunities to vote for gadflies and third party candidates (and recommend all other posters to do the same).
 
Yes, GW one of the worst presidents in US history.

:deadhorse:

I don't really get the point of this thread, except let me say that if we end up with Jeb vs Hillary I'll probably lose all faith in the US two party system (what very little I have left) and not even bother voting.

The point of this thread is to keep this fact in the forefront:

The people who were not prosecuted for this are not limited to "vice president and up," and if they were this would not be a big deal. But people who are among those who should have been prosecuted are nameless enough that without vigilance there are plenty of candidates who would gladly give them a chance to do it again, in the name of "putting together an experienced foreign policy team," and plenty of idiot voters who will vote for such a candidate. Since we aren't going to get them prosecuted every election needs to revolve around keeping them away from the power they misused before.
 
This thread has the best of timing and the worst of timing.

The best of timing: Last night was delivered to my house, prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi's The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder. (Bugliosi was Los Angeles' ace Dept. D.A., the guy who prosecuted mass murdered Charles Manson among others.) This book is touted as laying out the evidence and law which would support a conviction of Bush.

The worst of timing: I have yet to read the book and so cannot set out exactly what is in it.
 
Well, be sure to keep posting updates in this thread as you go along.
 
Look, I kinda knew this already.

What I can't fathom is -- well -- why would Bush trick USA to invade Iraq? Oil? Are you guys profiting in any way from the current situation in Iraq and Syria? Did the administration really expect to do so?
 
The point of this thread is to keep this fact in the forefront:

The people who were not prosecuted for this are not limited to "vice president and up," and if they were this would not be a big deal. But people who are among those who should have been prosecuted are nameless enough that without vigilance there are plenty of candidates who would gladly give them a chance to do it again, in the name of "putting together an experienced foreign policy team," and plenty of idiot voters who will vote for such a candidate. Since we aren't going to get them prosecuted every election needs to revolve around keeping them away from the power they misused before.

apparently the GOP has no other foreign policy team to put together, the Republican media and establishment wont be supporting anyone who doesn't embrace the lie they sold us
 
apparently the GOP has no other foreign policy team to put together, the Republican media and establishment wont be supporting anyone who doesn't embrace the lie they sold us

Therefore, we must vigilantly oppose the GOP.
 
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