The case for public tax information.

[Estebonrober]

The article only discusses income and amount paid in taxes being released. Nothing about the government sharing SSNs (obviously).

Yes I knew there would be a lot of push back to this idea but even I’m shocked to see how many people really want to keep their income private. Why again? I think there is this cultural thing about having things that makes people feel guilty? Idk. The privacy argument is ridiculous. You don’t have that right. It’s already been public in the past and considering the scale of financial fraud perpetrated by banks and private white collar criminals these days I think it wouldn’t help if our desperately understaffed ORD ha did some help. On top of the fact that every complaint about the abuse of this information is already illegal.

Transparency with each other on the economic front would help a lot right now. Instead we have laundering the size of California’s GDP going. On annually right now. Those Panama Papers have already been forgotten about clearly.

 

[rah]

Have suspicion, get a court order, and you have transparency. I don't see why you want more.
At least make that hackers/scammers work to find the information. Let's not make it any easier.

Feel free to post your tax returns here. I won't be.

 

[Estebonrober]

Have suspicion, get a court order, and you have transparency. I don't see why you want more.
At least make that hackers/scammers work to find the information. Let's not make it any easier.

Feel free to post your tax returns here. I won't be.

I've stated why I want more, capitalism in the shadows gets us an unbearable amount of crime, leads to ever worse outcomes for equality, and bastardizes our politics.

 

[Berzerker]

and why does that mean my taxes need to be available to everyone?

 

[rah]

And with a warrant the information is available. Why must all give up their privacy for a few bad apples? All it takes is enough to get a judge to agree.
You have not convinced me that it will solve issues that already have a solution. (i'll agree that the president is an exception, but that battle isn't done yet)

And so much for your Sunday swoon,

 

[Estebonrober]

And with a warrant the information is available. Why must all give up their privacy for a few bad apples? All it takes is enough to get a judge to agree.
You have not convinced me that it will solve issues that already have a solution. (i'll agree that the president is an exception, but that battle isn't done yet)

And so much for your Sunday swoon,

Well I guess my foundation is I'm not sure we deserved that privacy in the first place. The government represents the people, it collects taxes in the name of the people, it should not hide its proceeds and process from the people. Also the IRS is completely overwhelmed and having it public would open it non profit groups to investigate.

Sunday swoon?

 

[rah]

The swoon was for berz, sorry. His fantasy BB team served up our first loss of the season and probably one of the worst our team has ever suffered. Just giving him props.

Well you are entitled to your opinion on privacy. Fortunately you're in a minority on that one. Most of us don't want an endless flurry of having to sort out real concerns vs neighbors trying to get some petty revenge for some unintentional slight. At least now you have to convince a judge. Can you just imagine how many people would take a shot at somebody out of spite?

 

[Estebonrober]

The swoon was for berz, sorry. His fantasy BB team served up our first loss of the season and probably one of the worst our team has ever suffered. Just giving him props.

Well you are entitled to your opinion on privacy. Fortunately you're in a minority on that one. Most of us don't want an endless flurry of having to sort out real concerns vs neighbors trying to get some petty revenge for some unintentional slight. At least now you have to convince a judge. Can you just imagine how many people would take a shot at somebody out of spite?

Sure, I think much much less than is supposed by you and some others on here for example. Most people couldn't be bothered, especially when doing so would have penalties of its own. Wasting government resources is generally frowned upon, doing so as revenge actions tends to be punished by law.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

The article only discusses income and amount paid in taxes being released. Nothing about the government sharing SSNs (obviously).

Dunno about your tax forms, but on ours, the SIN number is very prominently at the top of the tax form. That's a number we're told never to give out to anyone who doesn't absolutely need to know it, and therefore should be used with caution as a form of ID.

Yes I knew there would be a lot of push back to this idea but even I’m shocked to see how many people really want to keep their income private. Why again? I think there is this cultural thing about having things that makes people feel guilty? Idk. The privacy argument is ridiculous. You don’t have that right. It’s already been public in the past and considering the scale of financial fraud perpetrated by banks and private white collar criminals these days I think it wouldn’t help if our desperately understaffed ORD ha did some help. On top of the fact that every complaint about the abuse of this information is already illegal.

So in your country it's illegal to complain about the government/police/whoever misusing your information?

Transparency with each other on the economic front would help a lot right now. Instead we have laundering the size of California’s GDP going. On annually right now. Those Panama Papers have already been forgotten about clearly.

The point is that people suspected of illegal activity is one thing - clearly the legal system (cops, courts) need to have access to tax documents. Money laundering in British Columbia is an example. People from China come in, buy property at insanely high prices (driving up the prices for people who actually live there), and then never live there. Expensive homes and apartments sit empty, because their only purpose was to launder money.

Since I'm not engaged in anything illegal, why should just anyone be able to look at my tax documents? It's none of their damn business.

 

[rah]

Think how much time would be wasted to determine which it was. IF you think they're overworked now.

 

[jarred!]

Yes I knew there would be a lot of push back to this idea but even I’m shocked to see how many people really want to keep their income private. Why again?

I'm not sure if I want my tax info published, I've never really thought about it before. At first glance I'm not too worried about my income being public (especially if there's a log of who's looked, or better yet, a notification), and I think wage transparency is important.

Dunno about your tax forms, but on ours, the SIN number is very prominently at the top of the tax form. That's a number we're told never to give out to anyone who doesn't absolutely need to know it, and therefore should be used with caution as a form of ID.

The article only discusses publishing income and amount paid in taxes. It does not discuss publishing full w-2's or 1040's (as they are known in the states, income form from my employer, and IRS tax document).

 

[Old Hippy]

I'm not sure if I want my tax info published, I've never really thought about it before. At first glance I'm not too worried about my income being public (especially if there's a log of who's looked, or better yet, a notification), and I think wage transparency is important.

I would not tell one of my brother's my income incase his wife found out... why cause trouble for him... he probably can guess it but I bet he does not tell 'his better half' what my income is... just saying

 

[Bamspeedy]

Sure, the SS# should obviously not be shown, but how to know you go the right 'John Smith'? Include the address? How would people feel trying to escape an abusive relationship and/or stalker about their address being able to be looked up so easily? Birthdate? Nobody needs to know my birthday or how old I am, and if they do they can ask me.
In Wisconsin for free I can search people's court history and get their (often former) addresses and birthdate and many people think this is an invasion of privacy, when court records are already a matter of public record, it's just put on user-friendly website. Yes, my name can be found there (as a joint plaintiff in a small claims case). Another guy with the same name (just a few months older than me) is listed there when filing for divorce. Wonder how many didn't look closely at the birthdate and just assumed we were both the same person.

So if you include just the 'Net income' and 'taxes paid/owed' that leaves out all the deductions that can explain why Joe paid less in taxes than Susan despite having similar income. But if you include the deductions and schedules (also obscuring personal information from those forms) you can still get alot more detailed information about the person than you need to know. If I want you to know how much $ I made selling my car last year or what my mortgage interest is I will tell you, otherwise bugger off.

A tax return doesn't show debt (unless that debt is tax deductible). It doesn't show savings. Going in debt or using savings can make one appear to be living a richer lifestyle than what their income should support, leading to false suspicions from his nosy neighbors of 'cheating on his taxes'.

 

[Lexicus]

I don't think "every person's tax returns should be public!" is an appropriate response to Trump refusing to turn over his tax returns to Congress.

 

[rah]

Agreed.
Public officials that could benefit from their office are a whole different ball game, and I'm sure only those that have their heads far up his butt are defending his refusal to release them.

 

[jarred!]

I would not tell one of my brother's my income incase his wife found out... why cause trouble for him... he probably can guess it but I bet he does not tell 'his better half' what my income is... just saying

Not sure what you're getting at... My coworkers and family know how much I make hourly. I'd tell them my yearly income if they were interested.

@Bamspeedy, it seems appropriate that a restraining order would protect against the evil ex from viewing info. A registry of who's viewing what would help deter mischief makers, although maybe not organized crime. Point being, legislation would be made to regulate this.

I don't think "every person's tax returns should be public!" is an appropriate response to Trump refusing to turn over his tax returns to Congress.

This. But, it is interesting to discuss the implications. I think governing bodies should have the power to view them.

 

[rah]

I can just imagine all the calls from charities seeking donations to those that had above average incomes.
(not including scammers of course)

 

[Lexicus]

This. But, it is interesting to discuss the implications. I think governing bodies should have the power to view them.

Congress does have the power to view anyone's tax returns.

Upon written request from the chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means of the House of Representatives, the chairman of the Committee on Finance of the Senate, or the chairman of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified in such request, except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

 

[rah]

Unless you think you're above the law and tell the IRS not to do it like our jerk in chief.

 

[Old Hippy]

Not sure what you're getting at... My coworkers and family know how much I make hourly. I'd tell them my yearly income if they were interested.

does your boss tell how much he/she makes... you can probably guess but i doubt your boss brings it to your attention... most people prefer not to know they are getting payed less than someone else...its polite not to bring it up...I don't tell people at family gatherings I earn probably twice as much as them... my two brothers have the same qualifications as me... one has a wife... loverly women but very materialistic always talking about the price of things... just saying