The Celts

[pineappledan]

Epona gets something like 8 BGP with the Ceilidh hall, so it grows pretty hard. CrazyG did a math breakdown on tile cost and the scaling buff from tradition gets you more tiles for the same BGPs than even -50% tile cost

 

[andersw]

Epona gets something like 8 BGP with the Ceilidh hall, so it grows pretty hard. CrazyG did a math breakdown on tile cost and the scaling buff from tradition gets you more tiles for the same BGPs than even -50% tile cost

With "from Tradition" you mean Sovereignty?

 

[CrazyG]

With "from Tradition" you mean Sovereignty?

You only need the one specific tradition policy to boost border growth (the one with the artist). 2 tradition with 4 authority can be really strong.

 

[andersw]

You only need the one specific tradition policy to boost border growth (the one with the artist). 2 tradition with 4 authority can be really strong.

yes thats sovereignty
"Culture cost of acquiring new tiles reduced by 20% (exponentially) in all Cities. Capital (1 Artist Slot, 1 Great Work of Art slot, +3 Faith).

 

[SpecifiedUsername]

3 science, gold, and golden age points per accessed lux resource AND trade route to or from the city (internal ones count double) AND 15% science and gold during WLTKD pantheon might be solidly overtuned. I'm getting 36 in the capital, plus 9 in other cities, plus about 12 from WLTKD. With Rhannion I would only get 10 culture (not really faster cause I was settling late), and only now start to get more than 14 gold and production at the same point.

Spoiler :

 

[pineappledan]

I was wondering if/when people were going to find that one

I agree, Nuada is probably the strongest belief right now, but it’s been in there for over a year and I have never heard anyone report it before now; everyone is always focused on Rhiannon or Cernunnos

 

[stii]

The reason Cernunnos is so powerful is that it is instant. You don't have to do anything to get a huge power boost early. That said this other one might be really good too, Celts are one of the strongest civs.

 

[SpecifiedUsername]

Celts are one of the strongest civs.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

I many times feel like there would be a normal pantheon better when I play Celts.
I usually go authority, pump some pictish guys, hunt barbs, tribute CS (that's the strongest point of Cetls imo) harass neighbor. Then I am stuck at war at the time I should develop, pictish are quickly becoming laughable when walls/swordsmen/horsemen/xbowa come to play .Even just spearmen are enough to stop them. Getting +16 faith on some warrior kills is not worth the investement for me. They only get pikeman upgrade so long after and so weak.
having mining early and produce actual units very early on is very troublesome to anything but authority and mining start. Many times you don't even utilize well in a capital.
I have trouble with faith as Celts, I have so much more with just other AI progress, Stonehenge and ancestor worship./terrian/sea pantheons. Having to produce pctish warriors delay your cities workers.

 

[Zanteogo]

Celts are all about that early game push. You have to do an early game assessment and pick your pantheon based on how much room you have to expand into, and how close and how aggressive the civs near you are.

The window Pictish are useful is small, so you have to either go all in with them, or go early peaceful.

After they lose their early game advantage with the Pictish the Celts next big advantage comes into play, the fact they are immune to other religions natural spread. This allows you to build a religion without worrying about other civs pressure.

A side effect of their pantheon is that no other civ can make use of it. This means if you spread your religion to other civs they are weaker due to this. However, the Celts religion also has no outward pressure so this has to be done manually.

​

 

[pineappledan]

Celts are hard to balance, your pantheon belief also being approximately 1/2 of your UA, and how that stacks up to other civs that get a UA and a pantheon can be difficult.

Re: your faith economy, the guaranteed 3per city is actually a pretty reasonable faith income early. That is about what you could expect from other early-focused pantheons, unless you had a stacked start.

However, there are pantheons like goddess of beauty or ancestor worship that just keep growing into late game, and the celts don’t have anything like that. Those faith-heavy pantheons are often the top picks for religious civs that want to double-down on their advantage, and you feel that need for strong faith more acutely with Celts because your religion doesn’t spread passively

All this to say: maybe Nuada is the right level of power, and all the other pantheons are too weak? It’s hard to get it right. Before I reworked them, dagda, Rhiannon, and maybe Cernunnos were the only pickable pantheons. I’m not sure if I went far enough, because I don’t hear many people reporting their Ogma games, but at least Nuada is getting picked up

 

[Circe]

The newly discounted luxury valuation is a stealth buff to Nuada and the Netherlands. It may not scale, but you can stack a lot of science and gold early to take the lead, which usually means keeping the lead.
Mannan is excellent with Progress and city spam, I definitely think it's up there with Cernunnos and Rhiannon. I actually don't like Dagda much, it seems to take too long to pick up compared to other beliefs by which point its own yields are less impressive.

 

[stii]

Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

I many times feel like there would be a normal pantheon better when I play Celts.
I usually go authority, pump some pictish guys, hunt barbs, tribute CS (that's the strongest point of Cetls imo) harass neighbor. Then I am stuck at war at the time I should develop, pictish are quickly becoming laughable when walls/swordsmen/horsemen/xbowa come to play .Even just spearmen are enough to stop them. Getting +16 faith on some warrior kills is not worth the investement for me. They only get pikeman upgrade so long after and so weak.
having mining early and produce actual units very early on is very troublesome to anything but authority and mining start. Many times you don't even utilize well in a capital.
I have trouble with faith as Celts, I have so much more with just other AI progress, Stonehenge and ancestor worship./terrian/sea pantheons. Having to produce pctish warriors delay your cities workers.

Turboing out your religion is super powerful and I'd do roughly what you are doing just in a faster way.

Tech right to picts and build warrior then tribute CS very early to upgrade into them. With two and a scout you can clear camps pretty easily and pin wandering barbs. This sets you found a pantheon without ever building a shrine. So you get a lot of faith quickly and same with the pantheon, I pretty much always take the forest/jungle one as it is a huge production boost early on. Once you have cleared camps you can 100% tribute CS.

You are right the picts are pretty useless rapidly for war, just they do other stuff early.