The Choke

[Virtual Alex]

I was playing a hot seat game with my friend, he was Hyuna Compac and he used his Quecha scout to put the choke on Hatty after stealing a worker. He then fortified in a forested hill, and hatty made several attempts to take his Quecha down!

She acted in a totally moronic manner of course. She would suicide one archer, or maybe 2 archers, but she would never keep going despite having 6 archers in the city. But she probably ended up attacking his unit 6 times over the course of the choke. She even killed two quechas (he kept sending more until he had a stack).

But yeah, it's not so much of an exploit. The AI are just really stupid about it.

(This was on monarch btw)

 

[Bei1052]

The "choke" is best pulled off on an AI who won't make it his or her goal to wipe you off the face of the map or is such a peacenick that you can get them to friendly even after declaring war on them. The last time I tried this was against Qin, and that game he had declared war on me no less than five times and brought in multiple allies every time (It didn't help that the entire world was Hindu and I had not a single Hindu city).

 

[Shafi]

on the whole exploit thing --- ii a single player game, i think you can play anyway you want and anything is allright i guess, you buy the game to have fun so go ahead.

In a multi player game --- set out the rules at the outset and play accordingly.

I replay maps repeatedly if i dont think i made the right choices and i enjoy it, sometimes i save and reload, since i am playing for my enjoyment that is fine.

 

[kochman]

I can definitely disagree with him, since calling such a thing "exploit" is like calling tech brokering an exploit. The only difference is a pretend mental rule set of what is right. However, since the argument that such an action is exploitative is fundamentally irrational and baseless, it is quite difficult to argue against people who are willing to use such illogical constructs in the first place. If a debate leaves the realm of facts and relies on opinions and feelings as the basis for arguments, it is useless in a situation like this.

In other words, calling choking an exploit is utter nonsense that can and has been exposed as such on this forum (and on many other forums for other games and tactics) many times over. People using it are just putting mental blocks on themselves.

This may be the best post ever at this site. Thank you for posting it TMIT! I love the people who try to attach morality to a video game, hilarious.
Its a game. Do what you want to make it fun for you. You will not have to answer at the Pearly Gates for how you played Civ4.

 

[dalamb]

ii a single player game, i think you can play anyway you want and anything is allright i guess, you buy the game to have fun so go ahead.

I mostly agree with this, but with one small caveat: there are "single player" games where you're comparing your game with others, like the NC and LHC series, shadow games, etc. The xOTMs and HOF have their own rules you have to stick to.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I mostly agree with this, but with one small caveat: there are "single player" games where you're comparing your game with others, like the NC and LHC series, shadow games, etc. The xOTMs and HOF have their own rules you have to stick to.

Building on that, choking is 100% allowed in all of those formats, allowed in MP, basically allowed no matter what. This is in start contrast to things that actually violate rules (HoF and XOTM staff have shown time and again to be dedicated to what they do and they work well. When the infinite oracle/lib bug of 3.19 came out, it was a matter of hours between them becoming aware of it and banning it officially).

 

[dalamb]

And in things like NC and LHC, if you did something unusual like turning off barbarians, it's OK but you're expected to admit it. "I choked XXX, ha ha," wouldn't cause anyone to blink there in an NC.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

And in things like NC and LHC, if you did something unusual like turning off barbarians, it's OK but you're expected to admit it. "I choked XXX, ha ha," wouldn't cause anyone to blink there.

I would do a lot more than just blink upon seeing a successfully executed choke in a LHC game .

 

[yanner39]

Can someone give a brief description of this strategy?

 

[bobbyboy29]

Can someone give a brief description of this strategy?

I am exploring with my initial warrior (in this case i am sitting bull but you don't have to be). On turn 4 i meet wang kon, he is a pushover. I explore north towards where his scout came from, i find his borders and see a cow resource within reach. The choke now becomes a viable option and thus i tech towards bronze working. I then wait with my warrior until the inevitable worker shows up. I take the worker and send it the short distance home unguarded (no great tragedy if he dies to barbs, my priority is the choke). I park the warrior in a forest next to wang's capital. Meanwhile bronze working finishes and i quickly build and send a dog soldier to replace the warrior.
The dog soldier in place, the warrior is relieved of his duties and retires to the simple life of a fogbuster. No unit ever leaves wang's capital again. 2000 years later i remember that he is still alive and finish him off with swords.
The End

 

[Shafi]

I mostly agree with this, but with one small caveat: there are "single player" games where you're comparing your game with others, like the NC and LHC series, shadow games, etc. The xOTMs and HOF have their own rules you have to stick to.

Absolutely. I meant games that you would just play by yourself. If you are playing for comparison there sould be an agreed set of rules and you play by those.

And if it's something like a NC game, you are not competeing it's just to learn from each other, so i guess as long as you spell out whatever you did clearly i guess it does'nt really matter does it?

 

[kochman]

Not for nothing, I have had the computer try the choke on me... on Monarch... and it worked (though not quite as efficiently). He just posted a Samuri between two cities in the forest... big pain in the ass...

 

[DMOC]

I always try to choke whenever possible.

Except, of course, if the other AI's are quicker than me to grab the extra land....

 

[6K Man]

I never remember to choke the AIs. Usually because they have already expanded to more than 1 city by the time I find them.

As for the exploit/not exploit argument: The AIs get huge production, research and diplomatic bonuses at higher levels. If you disallow yourself tactics that the AIs don't use themselves... how can you possibly win?

 

[Yesod]

This may be the best post ever at this site. Thank you for posting it TMIT! I love the people who try to attach morality to a video game, hilarious.
Its a game. Do what you want to make it fun for you. You will not have to answer at the Pearly Gates for how you played Civ4.

Yeah, there's no morality to the game if you don't want it. But choking, if you can pull it off, is a guaranteed way to take out an AI. It's not that it's inherently cheating, it's just so effective that if you got used to using it, you'd really be cheating yourself out of some talent. I don't see anyone using it in posted games, even if they're willing to defend it's honor. You build maybe 5 units, and neutralize an AI. You could probably do it to the other two civs on the same continent as you. Someone should develop a "strategy" based off it: Choke the other two guys with your first ten units and then REX with Charlemagne like crazy. Deity win by 1700 A.D. spacerace!!!

I did try this twice, but it just doesn't occur to me to simply build 3 units and cheezeball the AI when I'm pondering opening strategies...Guess I'm a dummy. They were fun games, though. Even better was when I stockpiled tactical nukes and blitzkrieged the entire map.

 

[Yamps]

Not leaving the capital with settlers/workers when there is a safe route out and not recognizing the danger from woodsman II warriors are AI flaws/bugs. In my book, playing based on AI bugs is exploitative. Not that that I don't do it though, I admit to myself I'm being exploitative. I hope these things do get corrected, perhaps with BUFFY. Leaving morality issues to personal preference, these things matter for competitive GOTM/BOTM games. It's a matter of chance that is most problematic, getting experience from some hut gets a powerful woodsman II warrior that can kill a civ early on. I remember a player saying it's better than popping a settler. Choke is less luck dependent, but it does take away some pleasure from the game when AI handles it poorly. It still does take some skill and care, AI could brake through, archer rush/choke back...It actually happened to me recently, bugger send back some choking archers of his own back to my capital.