1. We have added the ability to collapse/expand forum categories and widgets on forum home.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. All Civ avatars are brought back and available for selection in the Avatar Gallery! There are 945 avatars total.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. To make the site more secure, we have installed SSL certificates and enabled HTTPS for both the main site and forums.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Civ6 is released! Order now! (Amazon US | Amazon UK | Amazon CA | Amazon DE | Amazon FR)
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Dismiss Notice
  6. Forum account upgrades are available for ad-free browsing.
    Dismiss Notice

The Civilization Franchise- dead?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Mouthwash, Feb 12, 2012.

  1. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    5,750
    Location:
    Hiding.
    Still, after this expansion (maybe another one afterward) it could be playable heavily modded.
     
  2. Scifi99

    Scifi99 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2012
    Messages:
    3
    I had to rejoin this forum to post this. loong while since i posted.
    Ive been a civ player for long years, i enjoyed civ 4, and still play it.

    but i must say you aren't playing the mods for civ5 that are out there i suggest you take a look at this mod http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=432802

    Its the best civ experience i had in a while, both the combat system and the AI are great, the only thing i regret is religions arent implemented yet.

    And i dare say the HEX system is better than the stacks of doom from civ 4. Adds a lot more depth and tactics than spaming catapults at cities. This mod adds tons of buildings and research choices. Happiness system is very well thinked of and changed from the mess that it was on civ 5 vanilla game.

    If your looking for a chalenge take a look. Diferent civs bonuses are still a bit unbalanced, and somewhat the medieval cavalry units are very dependant on terrain. Like lancers having penalty defending.(its interesting)
     
  3. Abegweit

    Abegweit Anarchist trader

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2003
    Messages:
    4,810
    Location:
    One step ahead of the authorities
    No matter how much lipstick you put on it, a pig remains a pig.
     
  4. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

    Joined:
    May 19, 2006
    Messages:
    13,818
    Location:
    Lisbon, Portugal
    IMHO Civ V will probably never be as playable as Civ IV or even III, with all of the shortcomings that the latter both have even in their finals versions ( both have bugs to fix and glaring AI defects ), simply because there were too many changes in the core rules to get it right in one shot. Number of units per tile, square ( or iso )-> hex ( that IMHO made a huge influence in the tile yields, that have far reaching influence in the game ), roads having maintenance, the happiness count as empire restricting feature, the whole approach to diplo ... That is a lot of stuff that changed and will take quite a while for getting it all minimally coherent again.
     
  5. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    5,750
    Location:
    Hiding.
    This is ridiculous. I don't care how much rebalancing it has, Civ V will never be as good as Civ IV in any way. Your uninformed comment about "depth and tactics" suggests you haven't actually played Civ IV, much less have the knowledge to compare the two.

    Moderator Action: There's no need to be so rude. Please be friendly to your fellow posters :).
     
  6. gps

    gps Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2007
    Messages:
    885
    The growing neglect of backwards compatibility??? Not quite sure what you're talking about. When I startet computer gaming you had to buy a new machine every second or third year (remeber all those Sinclair or Commodore machines? - that was neglect of backwards compatibility!). Right now we're in a situation we're you can switch on your Windows Vista PC and have a good chance that most of your Direct X 5 games from way back in '96 or so will still run without any problems. Backward compatibility has never been better and longer lasting than it is today. The biggest threat to backwards compatibility actually is greed-driven copy protection paranoia of the producers and distributors. The mere fact that I am posting in a forum where two decades old games (Civ 1 was released in 1991!) are played and discussed fully proves my point...
     
  7. MedicInDisquise

    MedicInDisquise Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2011
    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    The East Coast
    Civ4 and Civ5 is selling well. Just looking at how many posts are in each forum strengthens this. Even if they don't make a Civ6, they still will be selling Civ4 and Civ5 in stores. Money isn't the problem. The problem is that Firaxis did'nt learn. Civ3 was great, Civ 4 was Greater, and now Civ5... was a complete loss. If they kept features from Civ4 and created new features instead of removing others, this post would'nt exist.
     
  8. steveg700

    steveg700 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,712
    So, what is it exactly that makes Civ IV superior to Civ V?

    I've just switched over from V to IV. I like a lot of things about it, but I'm not at a point where I'd call it superior. Over in the newb questions thread, I'm told to never automate workers because the AI is so terrible.
     
  9. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,940
    Location:
    Bristol, England
    The automation AI is awful, though its far better if you use the govenors as the the AIs do, still not great though.
    The major reason the AI works better in civ 4 is because the mecahanics were made to fit around it (stacks) rather than made in spite of it (1 upt) completely breaking the game.

    Theres also much more variety and choice in management coming from sliders, better tile improvements, maintenance, a non ******ed happinjess mechanic and flexible civics. Also, in civ 5 player options were further cut from few to almost none with patches in order to protect the non functional AI by nerfing the bejeesus out of things that did work too....

    Theres plenty more, but to explain everything in detail would require a dissertation. I suppose you could look at Sullla's review of why civ 5 fails and work backwards.
     
  10. Abegweit

    Abegweit Anarchist trader

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2003
    Messages:
    4,810
    Location:
    One step ahead of the authorities
    In particular, his long quote from Luddite. Luddite's excellent analysis about the consequences of 1UPT is required reading for anyone who wants to know what happened to Civ V.

    The failure of 1UPT goes far beyond the AI's inability to wage war this way.
     
  11. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    5,750
    Location:
    Hiding.
    I was in your position once. The reason you don't like the gameplay is because you don't know how to play. After a few weeks you start to see different strategies and depth.
    And as for the worker comment, I remember I used to automate workers in Civ V and they destroyed my economy replacing all the trading posts with other improvements. In Civ IV at least there is an option for workers to leave old improvements.
     
  12. attackfighter

    attackfighter Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2008
    Messages:
    1,010
    Location:
    Intellectual Elite HQ
    Civ 3 shall forever live on in our hearts, so it matters not if there is no civilization 6. Also: Alpha Centauri - greatest 4X game, they should've just let the genre die after it was released, since it can never be topped (especially now that we have "3D" graphics ruining everything). So basically Alpha Centauri killed Civilization, that's why FirAxis focuses so much on making useless features like religion: all of the traditional 4X features were perfected already by AC, greatest video game made.
     
  13. steveg700

    steveg700 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,712
    I like the ambition of switching from squares to hexes (which seems like simple common sense) and breaking up stacks-of-death, but I do agree the AI does not seem up to the task that was foisted upon it. If it can't create screens effectively, then might as well back to stacks.

    I think Civics are pretty cool, and having types of government has more personality than sopols.
     
  14. steveg700

    steveg700 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,712
    This option exists in Civ V as well.
     
  15. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

    Joined:
    May 19, 2006
    Messages:
    13,818
    Location:
    Lisbon, Portugal
    Well, Civ V options system is also another issue to gripe on ....
     
  16. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    5,750
    Location:
    Hiding.
    Personally I think a civic-social policy combination would be best. For the matter of square vs hexes, I think squares win hands down. Hexes allow movement to six areas, squares allow eight. It's only an aesthetic decision, although squares can look pretty realistic too.
     
  17. Rusty Edge

    Rusty Edge Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    2,893
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheeseland
    Since I haven't played V for many months, and I only play moded versions of IV, it's hard for me to remember specifics.

    Certainly hexes were something I always endorsed on the Civ V ideas & suggestions threads. We also discussed many ways to correct the stack of doom problem, and armies of seige weapons without making arbitrary limits.

    I certainly agree that civics are better gameplay than social policies. Civics feel like I'm operating a vehicle and I can change gears to adapt to forseeable conditions. Social Policies are more like firing stages on a rocket, the next one just takes you further towards your original objective.

    It's symptomatic of the difference to me. In IV, I didn't feel lokcked into a particular victory condition at the outset,be cause I could reveal the map and my competitors and adapt, or even change victory strategies.

    In V, the advatages of a particular leader herd you down a path to a victory condition, and social policy choices only tend to send you along the way and deepen the rut you are in.

    Or to put things another way, I find IV to be a blank canvas, with endless possibillities and V is a coloring book. While the scenery is prettier in V,I have to color inside the lines and paint by numbers.
     
  18. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Hater

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    1,434
    In V, the governor will starve your city when you pick various kinds of focus. That's how incompetent the automation is. >.>
     
  19. Abegweit

    Abegweit Anarchist trader

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2003
    Messages:
    4,810
    Location:
    One step ahead of the authorities
    Hexes vs. squares is kinda meh. There's really not much to choose between them. The most important thing is how it affects city layout. BFC vs circles.

    I liked the idea of cities growing organically before the game came out. Then I saw the implementation. Same as everything else in Civ5, it was pathetic.

    Hexes and organic growth might be something to take for Civ6. 1UPT has to go, though. Even if they could teach the AI to play it, it's still a bad idea. As Luddite pointed out very well, it simply destroyed the basic mechanics of the game.
     
  20. Antilogic

    Antilogic Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Messages:
    15,602
    1UPT could be easily replaced with a Paradox- or AGEod-style frontage rule, and the weighting on the units could encourage stacks (but small stacks) towards the beginning of the game, but with advancements in military technology could lead to larger fronts (fewer units per tile could actually fight, and more units would mean spreading out to flank). Inconclusive battles would be more common (i.e. both sides retain damaged units after combat), and neighboring units would march to the sound of the guns in later time periods to provide a bonus. I have always liked the idea of the hex grid, and would likely retain that if I were to redesign the game.
     

Share This Page