The Cold War Deluxe; 1950-1991

[El Justo]

all good stuff fellas...

to be more clear, stats on the naval vessels have changed very little since the first phase of TCW. a few minor tweaks. that's all.

what was altered the most was probably the air units, some foot units and some armoured units. nothing drastic, just a matter of ensuring balance.

i'd say that the next revision of TCW should begin in earnest at the end of April. i have a few new ideas to make it even better and of course, i'd love to hear opinions and/or suggestions.

keep going Blackbird...we love reports and screenies

 

[Rocoteh]

I've been trying to play this scenario, but by the time the late 1960s come around, it takes 5-10 minutes between turns. Is there some tweaks or settings to adjust to help speed up the game ?

I have an Athlon XP3000+ processor, 1.5g Ram, 2 HDs(1 30 gig and 1 70 gig, neither are full), a 256 mb video card, I'm running WinXP OS.

Maybe I should just start wars to help thin the global population.

vingrjoe,

With that capacity on the computer you should be able to run
WW2-Global with 5-10 minutes between turns.

Thus I think it sounds like a very long waiting time for TCW.
Its hard to see the reason.

Rocoteh

 

[El Justo]

make sure that there's no other programs running in the background. i have similar specs to what you have vingrjoe and wait about 3-5 minutes between turns when war is not declared. of course, the turns are much faster when war is on.

i am in the early 70s, too.

one thing i've noticed is my norton anti-virus program likes to run whenever it likes. i disable it when i play civ and the turns are much, much faster. no doubt.

 

[El Justo]

i'm not sure if Klyden or myself had announced it but there's an excellent player's guide that my CFC friend Klyden wrote for the MP/PBEM version of TCW.

i linked it to the 2nd post of this thread along w/ all of the other useful info.

 

[Blackbird_SR-71]

Operation South America Overhaul

I continued my campaigns in South America (Officially called the Caracas Campaigns). I increased tank numbers on the continent and went on to conquer Bogota which i had the SA air force stationed at. I destroyed a total of 4 aircrafts there and took the city. then i advanced to take 4 other cities on the West Coast of South America primarily high pop cities that once assimilated would be pretty powerful industrial cities.

i lost a total of maybe 10-13 tanks capturing the other 4 cities. and South America launched a small counteroffensive of 4 tanks innitial of my surge in Bogota that i killed at the price of one tank and then 2 tanks that i fought before conquering my last city for the day with one tank lost.

air support has not been helping much in this sit. they mainly just destroyed crucial improvements such as barracks and lowered city population. but occasionally they hit their target which helped save one of my tanks.

some other stuff have been going on in the world (with pictures numbered):

1) The first picture is my battle plan. It shows my attack targets and shows you really whats going to be achieved in the second phase of the Caracas Campaigns. This is mainly at an attempt to get rid of those pesky cities so that i won't have to fight a two front war, where my army is advancing south but the tanks come from the rear flank of my territory and suprise attack me. once i capture the capital it will be a one front war that will pretty much give the victory.

2) This picture is of Europe. As you can see the cities circled are cities that Europe has captured from the WP, mostly Yugoslavia territory. They have to capture the other city and Soviet Union will be pushed out of europe. europe has pretty much have their situation under control. the arrow shows europes advance south that led to conquering of the two cities that were formly part of Africa.

3) This is a picture of the Middle East position. Middle East is doing successful. They aren't a liability but a gain. They have successfully captured the modern day Saudi Arabia territory and need three cities to push Africa out of the Arabian Pennisula. The cities circled are the cities that Middle East has captured including two cities on their China-India border which is a surprise as they have been able to keep the Chinese at bay. The two cities in the north that are circled are the two cities that Europe captured from Africa.

News Summary: My Operation South America Overhaul has been going successfully along with the Caracas Campaigns. Europe and Middle East aren't liablities but infact are holding their ground and are gaining land from the commie side. SEATO also is doing good. they have been able to hold the Korean pennisula although they have not made any territorial gains (not sure if they have even encountered military battles). i was thinking that i may have to end my Caracus Campaigns and ship my army to Europe/Middle East or in the South Asia but it seems perfectly alright over there. so i will continue my campaigns the same as before.

NOTE: Operation South America Overhaul is over. It's mission was to establish a firm beachhead on the South American continent which has been concluded. the operations in South America are now called the Caracas Campaigns from now on.

 

[warmwaffles]

But I can't shut down my Norton Internet Security only disable it???? WTF..........but civ does seem to run faster cuz I figured out which programs to cut and then which ones to keep......

Aww El you want me to put the dates instead of the turn numbers? why....I guess I could but it would start like a little too far into the mod like at turn 108 It would then transition to the actual dates...........hmmmm maybe I can just put the date below the turn indicator.....the turn indicator helps me ALOT when I am reviewing.

 

[JG99_Korab]

So what Would I do playing as the little as a little civ in the game?

 

[El Justo]

Blackbird,

very nice.

it looks like the south americans simply couldn't resist. did you lose any aircraft due to interceptors? any buff'ers?

the euro advances are quite surprising. i've never seen them (in single player TCW) go on the offensive like that. i know in my personal game (single player, not MP like yours), my euro allies are pretty much wusses and haven't done squat really. i've even cordoned off the commies in france and i'm about to do the same in the yugoslavia area. they're prime for the pickins' but i'm afraid my allies just don't care.

the ME picture is also surprising. i'd like to see them be able to hold off any initial onslaughts and it appears they doing just that. very nice.

are you preparing for a euro expedition? make sure you have your carrier groups at full strength and bring alot of AAA w/ you b/c if you don't, the AI will know it.

i look forward to the next round of reports

 

[El Justo]

So what Would I do playing as the little as a little civ in the game?

hope and pray...no, kidder. which civ are you referring to?

greece, turkey, israel and even WG/LL are all fairly difficult to play as are the yugoslavs i'm sure.

 

[El Justo]

straying a bit from what has been discussed, i've thought of a few new ideas as for a possible update for TCW...

i've always gritted my teeth over the quick expulsion of the amricans from their intl airbases; especially in kora and germany.

as such, i've given thought to an immobile, pre-placed 'division' type unit for the areas under question. for example, i could create a unit with extra HP, unbuildable and maybe MF gfx that would serve as a stiff defender of the airbases.

this would accomplish a few things...
it'd make it an extremely bloody affair for the commies to overrun these positions w/ such a unit in place and it'd be a bit more realistic as far as historical purposes are concerned. i mean, really, do you think that s korea or germany would fold so fast if the reds had invaded?

also, in conjuction w/ this, i'd like to see a static BAOR (british army of the rhine) setup for the the UK somewhere near the border.

the whoile point of this would be to realisticlly delay the early commie overrunning of these positions. it seems to happen in every game i play. of course, these beefed up units would have to be immobile b/c their offensive capacity would be overwhelming to the reds.

are there thoughts on this?

 

[Klyden]

Some interesting observations. I had metioned the BAOR before and think it would be cool to include them in Germany. Part of the issue for the Germans is when those airfields get polluted and then they can't clean them. (This is a universal problem with the overseas airfields unfortunately).

One thing about the Commies overruning positions has a lot to do on what difficulty level you are playing on. Case in point, on Demigod level, the WP gets something like 12 additional units. This makes a big difference in their available initial surge. Granted the other positions get additional units, but those are generally spread out (safe for WP), which is not the same for concentrating for the attack. The game plays differently at the lower levels (I personally like Monarch as it gives just a couple of units and a slight discount to the AI, but I think the game plays more true for what a multiplayer game would have take place). I would be interested to know how fast the WP pulls the trigger on a war at the higher levels (lots of extra units ready to go to war with) compared to lower levels.

Now, this brings up the topic of how to balance the game. My personal opinion for the most part is that you need to balance for the middle. In otherwords, the game should play well with the middle settings. If you have to jack it way up, then my thinking in most cases is that it needs work. One thing to try as well is at the higher levels, don't give the AI the free units. They screw up the initial balance the game is intended to have with starting units.

The US actually starts with a rather distinct advantage because of all their overseas bases. This gives them a pool of units available to play with and it gives them several options at game start and some of these could be considered unbalancing (like the US dumping most of their free units into Korea and taking out the Manchurian area without the Chinese being able to do much about it).

I think the idea of having fixed defensive units on the air base may be a pretty good idea, but not for the reasons El Justo has come up with. I like the idea to keep the US from yanking troops out all over the place to pile them up in one spot. I would like to see several of the infantry units changed to a fixed unit that can't be air transported. This keeps the bases defended and also does not give the US a huge advantage. Leaving some of them available to be moved should be allowed.

When I have been involved as the US, I have never had the issue of getting an airbase run over that I did not want run over. One other thing to consider as well (especially in Korea) is that if the US does not reenforce its airbases, then they should get run over.

I think you try a game or two at the higher levels you like to play at and reduce the free AI units to zip and see what happens.

 

[MaxRiga]

Here is microbic cold war 1.5 scenario
Please, inform me if u find any bugs to fix it
The main diferences from original big 1.5 scenario is that american units are more realistic now in power and choppers can move on land as usual land units ( just ignoring all terrain types ). There are also global 4 alliances and Australia free of any.
enjoy
MaxRiga

P.S. this is my final 1.3 version, which one a little improved and fixed some bugs. Hope, this is final release of the micro scenario for ColdWar.

 

[El Justo]

Klyden,

iirc, i think i lowered the free units the AI gets at the higher levels. i'll have to check it though. i do know that i've always hated that default setting in all civ3 games. it's unfair if you ask me. what i'm looking for is a more aggressive and smarter AI rather than sheer numbers.

one of my only reservations about adding the UK to germany is the loss of that tile for WG/LL production/shields/food. it may not seem like much but the WG/LL position needs all the production it can get.

I_Batman has suggested that we re-visit the WP air units again. i know you an i had discussed it briefly and i'm in agreement that the stats could be nudged up for balance purposes.

as for the potential differences in game levels in correpsondence w/ WP overruninng the US airbases, i was able to hold off one position (korea) whilst the other (WG) fell due to my ealry mobilization towards Vladivostock. this is at demigod level. Sid level? forget it. they crushed me no matter how many foot units i sent in. wave after wave it seemed like and this is all w/in the first dozen turns or so!

i firmly believe that levels lower than demigod would present much more of a creampuff AI opponent (no to disparage my friends who like these levels ) thus making those bases being overrun much less likely if at all possible. these are just my opinions however.

also, to follow up on my revision thoughts...
i feel that WG/LL needs more teeth from the get-go. after all, they fall quite easily or least they've fallen quite fast in my games. in my latest, WG/LL has been wiped off the map some time in the mid-60s. completely unacceptable i you ask me. WG was armed to the teeth at this time.

 

[Klyden]

Like I say.. try it with reduced starting forces and see what happens.. T55 vs defending US infantry = tough match up, especially in better defensive terrain.

To say WG was armed to the teeth is not exactly accurate. While the Bundswher was a formidable force, also consider the amount of US troops in Germany and the sizeable contingent of UK troops as well. The problem you are going to have in game is getting the AI to coordinate the defensive efforts of all the different western states. France and Spain both have plans to send expeditionary forces (the Low Countries already are incorporated into the WG position). If you ran all three (along with the UK ground forces and US support) the WP would face a far more formidble opponent, although what they have to face now is pretty nasty.

They may take out WG, but it is at a steep price and they don't do it every game. The other thing to consider is the WG position is pretty damm tough as it is for what it is.. remember, you are talking a state the size of Wisconsin holding off the entire WP and it just won't happen without help from the outside.

I agree on WP air units in that they need to have their bombard scale upward. We have too many things in the WP inventory that have a bombard of 20-30 and it simply does not get much done against a M1 or M2. Even Bears and Backfires have troubles with the end game tanks. As far as air to air, I don't know that there is a lot of tweaking required there.

As far as the AI goes and higher settings, besides the free start units, the only other thing the AI does is get cheaper rates on builds and a cash trade bonus. This does not in of itself mean the AI plays better, but rather uses the additional resources to its advantage. At the higher levels, the game looses the correct feel, especially as the WP side as you are supposed to be the side with the quantity advantage and the other side has not only quality, but quantity because of the massive discount it gets. I like working with the AI settings more with the agressive setting and also tinkering with the AI settings in the editor.

One other thing for the next revision and that is to figure out how to get the AI to build the pollution reducing wonders because in my games, pollution has done more to slow down the AI than a lot of things. They will clean it, but building the pollution reducers is not a priority at all for the AI. Perhaps giving the recycling center and pub transport a factor of 1 culture would give the AI the incintive to build them.

 

[El Justo]

i like your ideas and you point re Wisconsin has been noted Mr. Senator

we'll look it all in earnest in a short while.

 

[warmwaffles]

My god.............I have 512 MB of RAM and a 2.4 Ghz Processor....WTF why is it taking 15-30 minutes a turn?

I can only get like two turns done daily..

I shut off Norton Anti-Virus
I shut off My wireless card
I shut off MSN
I can't shut off Norton Internet security only disable it....

But when I am playing I look in the processes menue and I see that CIV III is taking up more than it usually does its like in the 400 thousand range.......but i have processes running like svhost wtf is that.......and I think I am going to have to take notes on pieces of paper then transfer them to word after I am done with the session.......any more ideas on what to shut down

 

[vingrjoe]

Welcome to my world, Drivebymaster. I maybe got 10 turns in last night. On the bright side, I got to read my old Far Side books from the 80's.

 

[warmwaffles]

Ya I beat super mario and I played my most favorite original gameboy game ever "F-1 Racer" hahahaha I love them both..

I love the old school games like pong...still a classic

 

[warmwaffles]

I beat super mario again because waiting for about 4 turns to get done is a long time!!! ohh well at least I am catching up on Rainbow Six Book and my Gran Turismo 4 on my PS2 ....

But I am using a different computer to post this because I want to optimize all the space possible on my PC for speed reaons you see......funny thing is I am on our laptop next to my computer.......it has Wireless and our DSL Modem is wireless too.....I know it sounds like bragging but hey its cool.

BTW DO NOT set the priority level for Civ 3 at highest or real time BIG A$$ mistake don't do it

 

[El Justo]

more play test results

Dec 1972 demigod level USA

peace has been declared for about 1 yr now and the turn times have lengthened. i need to look into a solution to redeuce them somewhat. for some reason or another, turn times are much longer when peace is declared.

i'm considering merging civs again as a result. if there are other options outside of reducing or changing the map then i'm all ears...

possible canidate(s):
greece/italy
turkey/israel

not entirely sure if this would help or if it's the proper combos. it could help but i'd have to look into it some.

i've been able to maintain good intl standing and don't want to have to sneak attack if i don't have to. however, the next wave of 24 mech unit is about to land in france and as you can see in the screen shot, i have quite a few Corps units and an assload of others. in total, there's 62 counting the Corps unit defending the workers due south-east of Stuttgart. there's a variety of M60, M1s and half dozen Dusters and a few M109 Paladins. they're in big trouble.

my CIA Operatives (2) have been busy little bees. i vicked five wrokers from the chinese in greece and stole a few more from WP. my intl flavored (captured) worker force are transforming tiles completely (irr/road/rr/poll) w/in 1 turn.

pollution is very annoying. maybe give worker units 2 movement instead of 1? the worker rates are ok though. just built (autopro'd) my first "Civil Eng" unit in Frisco.

i've finally taken to building a pacific fleet on scale w/ my atlantic fleet. a half dozen tico's, a bunch of tarawa amph transport/carriers and a few nimitz cvn's loaded w/ f15s and a10s. straight nasty. i'm still considering where to open up my pacific/asian front. maybe indochina but it's a ways off.