The Cold War Deluxe; 1950-1991

[El Justo]

well i appreciate your kindness in answering me, i do not always get it

no problem and please, if you have any problems/questions/whatever, don't hesitate to ask.

welcome to CFC btw!

also, at some point or another, i'd like to compile 'intel reports' for specific civs. things like unit usage/preferences, AI behaviour, naval activities, etc.

it'll be a little while before this happens though.

what speeds this along is play-test reports...

 

[Klyden]

Got a chance to download and start looking things over. Not exactly sure who I want to start with as there are so many good choices.

Some early things I saw: (Mostly WP items as I went through them first).

Map issue. Arkhangel'sk needs moved. Right now, it has no access to the sea.

I also think more cities need to be added to the Urals area for the Soviets as this was on of their major production areas during and after WW2. Right now, there is really nothing there.

Units:

Kiev Class carriers should not be available at start (first laid down in 1970). Suggest you move this to the "Super Carrier" tech slot.

Moskva class carriers have some issues. They have a greater attack/bombard than the Kiev class and that simply is not accurate by any stretch. Moskva class weapons were mainly oriented towards ASW and they had a good AA capability, but very, very limited surface to surface. They also have no air capacity. The first ship was complete in 1967. Suggest swapping the attack/bombard values between the two classes and move this one to the "advance carrier" tech slot.

Yak 38 Forger. These are supposedly available at start. This was the primary fixed wing aircraft designed for the Kiev class. Should come into service at the same time as perhaps the Sea Harrier (Modern Naval Tactics advance).

Kirov class cruiser. Was laid down in 1973/74 and not in service until 1980. Suggest this ship be made available with Modern Naval Tactics.

For starting forces, the Soviets have some "Golf II" class SSB's. There were maybe 13 of these subs in service as compared to the 240 or so of the Whiskey class by 1957. The first November class SSN's were in service by 1958.

Suggest the Golf II become the more recognized Whiskey class and a few more added here and there. (There is nothing in the Baltic for Soviet naval forces there and very little in the Black Sea or elsewhere). Up to you on the November class, but perhaps 1 or 2 might be appropriate.

There were also 14 Serdlov light cruisers in service at this time as well. While basically a WW2 ship, these were among the best Soviet ships completed up to the time and were very handy. They carried strictly a gun armament for a long time (there were some later missle conversions). Guns were 12 x 6". Suggest putting some of these in at each of the 4 fleet locations (Black and Baltic Sea, Northern and Pacific fleet).

Looking forward to getting a game going after I get done doing some more reviewing of positions. Again, this looks very exciting. Well done!

 

[Rocoteh]

"Moskva class carriers have some issues. They have a greater attack/bombard than the Kiev class and that simply is not accurate by any stretch. Moskva class weapons were mainly oriented towards ASW and they had a good AA capability, but very, very limited surface to surface. They also have no air capacity. The first ship was complete in 1967. Suggest swapping the attack/bombard values between the two classes and move this one to the "advance carrier" tech slot." Klyden

I will comment on that, since I have been involved in the unit-stats.
However I have not been involved in Order of Battle.

Kiev has Bombard 30 Range 3 ROF 4.
Moskva has Bombard 15 Range 1 ROF 3

I suggested 40 in attack for Moskva since this is in fact
the ASW-factor.
No one have since 1960 had any plans for surface-combat with guns.
Such actions (surface actions with guns) is easy to count.
Thus the attack-factors I proposed is the ASW-cap.

Rocoteh

 

[El Justo]

@Rocoteh & Klyden

thanks for the thoughtful responses.

i will consider all of the remarks for the revision.

re soviet union issues:
i've been doing more play-testing as china and have noticed that western europe has really ganged up on the commies by taking berlin, warsaw, moscow and a few other western soviet cities. this is disturbing b/c it strips the soviets of their western sea ports, pre-placed unit-producing wonders in moscow & warsaw as well as the backbone of their industrial capacities.

there are a few options to consider:
-make soviet units cheaper
-boost the initial productivity levels (pre-placed improvements) of western Soviet Union
-pre-place a stronger Soviet force in eastern europe

comments and suggestions are welcome!

 

[warmwaffles]

Did you get this fix EL JUSTO?

The Fix

It's on page 4 with a screen shot of the error

 

[El Justo]

silly me...another option to initially strengthen USSR is for an "iron curtain' of sorts...

opinions on the three from above and this?

@Drivebymaster,

if that's the last one you posted, then yeah, i linked up to that post on the first pg. thanks alot for finding these, too. it'll make the next version (patch free) free of the silly little errors that i made. so, on that note, post them as you find them (if you do).

 

[warmwaffles]

Ya that is the last one I posted becasue I just woke up but I modding you will ALWAYS run into errors you can never get around them you just have to bear with them.

But my most dreaded part of modding is after loading everything and all the units is game play because I always get the SU76Mrun.flc can't be found, and all that other garbage.

 

[El Justo]

Ya that is the last one I posted becasue I just woke up but I modding you will ALWAYS run into errors you can never get around them you just have to bear with them.

sure i'll run into them but i WILL get them fixed. i am now an expert in bug-fixing after all of the testing w/ this hog.

But my most dreaded part of modding is after loading everything and all the units is game play because I always get the SU76Mrun.flc can't be found, and all that other garbage.

IIRC, i didn't include this unit in the DL.

did you check your SU76M unit folder? the INI? maybe there's a typo or something.

 

[REDY]

It looks very good, but placing cities in Europe are horrible! I understand then in the World map you are limited, but when is Amsterdam under Denmark and influental cities like Vienna, Prague or Budapest arent concluded...Western and Eastern Germany are placed in 40 percents in Europe and all Balkan has Yugoslavia, and Bulgaria and Romania arent...

 

[El Justo]

It looks very good, but placing cities in Europe are horrible! I understand then in the World map you are limited, but when is Amsterdam under Denmark and influental cities like Vienna, Prague or Budapest arent concluded...Western and Eastern Germany are placed in 40 percents in Europe and all Balkan has Yugoslavia, and Bulgaria and Romania arent...

i am sorry but there is just not enough room in europe to include such cities.

this was really the only "compromise" that i had to make when i included the small world map and being that it wasn't a very hard decision to make....i left them out.

 

[Klyden]

I would like to see somewhat of a compromise on your three versions as they all have advantages and disadvantages:

1. Cheaper Soviet units while realistic, might also tip the balance too far.

2. I like this one the best of the bunch, but I think it needs to be applied to most everyone. This will allow some immediate construction of units to help. I don't know that western Russia needs to be built up anymore, but this does fall in line with my comment about the area around the Urals needing some attention.

3. Pre placing a stronger force just invites halvoc by the Human who knows other countries force pools are low. By "buying off" some countries, they would be able to take these extra forces and launch a serious campaign elsewhere, or by loading up a sector, they can make it very painful for a human player to compete as the AI has a tendancy to "come after the player position" anyway.

I think some map work needs to be looked at in the Black Sea area. This is probably one of the strongest historical ship building areas for the Russians and they can't produce a single ship there. Black Sea needs to be made big enough to get 3 sea hexes in there, so people can do normal stuff with the naval aspect.

 

[El Justo]

@Klyden

all good points!

i think a boosted 'initial production capability' + a few (not as many as the screenie) units pre-placed is the best way to go.

i'll take a look at the soviet map issues. feel free to send it to me by email like the last time(s). i like that ;-)

 

[warmwaffles]

@el justo
Yes I already got the bug fixed I'm just sayin I run into it evry now and then.
Current Update On My Save:
Commies Declare War 14th turn

Seattle Should have something like the Boeing Plant That creates a B-52 every 10-18 turns. Sound cool?

 

[warmwaffles]

Oh encountered some minor stuff

 

[warmwaffles]

Ohh and some more things

Factory is in the ICBM Spot why?
Because the Nuclear Powerplant comes before it and the oil refinery?

 

[El Justo]

@Drivebymaster

i thought about adding in that but decided against it b/c the US can build them instead.

every unit that is autoproduced by a wonder is 'unbuildable'. i didn't necessarilly mean it to be like this but it just kinda happened...

i would add it if the USA AI refused to build them. this way, it'd 'force' the AI into deploying them.

the b-52s are monsters, too.

 

[warmwaffles]

That you got me at and why can't we build the New Jersey class BB? To powerful?

 

[El Justo]

Oh encountered some minor stuff

man, you're really hen-pecking now

the asthetic stuff is at the bottom of the list right now.

however, as Rocoteh would say, "notes have been taken"

finding any typos that would cause a crash or effect game-play are at the top of the list.

i'd like to have an update completed by jan 6 or 7 at the latest.

i will be out of country from jan 8 to about jan 17.

 

[El Justo]

That you got me at and why can't we build the New Jersey class BB? To powerful?

there was only one them (USS New Jersey) you know & i think it's an iowa class bb...

BBs were being phased out by this time but the NJ (my home state btw ) took part in the korean war as well as vietnam. iirc, it may have even been used one last time during gulf war i.

it is now a 'floating museum' in camden, nj. neve rbeen to see it though. saw it from the air during a flight from philly last month.

 

[warmwaffles]

Where are you going? You could use a laptop.....and so could I. Wish i had one