El Justo
Deity
Klyden,Klyden said:
i was also thinking of that. i am thinking that the RNG generator for bombing runs is determined by this stat.
The Cold War Deluxe; 1950-1991
- Thread starter El Justo
- Start date
i was also thinking of that. i am thinking that the RNG generator for bombing runs is determined by this stat.
First I would like to congrat EL Justo for his great work (I am really amazed by the quantity of work needed to create this scenario).
I have a few comments based on the feelings I got after playing a few nations.
1-The first is the fact that some units should be reviewed like the Centurion Mk3 (too strong compared to its counterparts), the F14 (great plane at its time but on its decline at the end of the scenario and in no case equivalent to the F15 like it is stat wise at the moment) and the AMX 32 (I think its 38 defense factor is a mistake as it should be 28 or 30 to be balanced with the other modern armors). I think the Super Sabre range should be brought back to 6.
2-I think the "upgrading" path should be simplified to avoid having multiples units (like 2 P51, 2 F86, 2 M48 or 2 Supermarine Spitfire). For example, if you see the US made armors paths, you have 2 main ones:
- M4 => M48 NATO => Leopard 1 => Leopard 2
- M26 => M48 => M60 => M1 => M1A1
when Israel can not upgrade its armors past the M48 NATO and must create new Merkava 1 units that can be upgraded to Merkava 2 (and the same problems occurs for other nations).
IMHO, the easiest way to do it is to do it this way: M4 => M26 => M48 => M60 => M1 => Leopard 1 => Merkava 1 => M1A2 => Leopard 2 => Merkava 2 as you will get the expected result through the allowed nations filters (the upgrade cost is only linked to the difference in shield costs, not the number of "stages"). It is the way the developpers included the "unique" Civ units in the upgrade paths for example.
The same thing should be applied to guns for example, Field gun => 105mm => 122 mm=> 155 mm => 152 mm self propelled => 155 mm self propelled (the 203 mm can be put in instead of the 152 mm self propelled but the 2 can not fit together in such a tree).
This scheme can be used for all units to simplify the upgrade path (and avoid getting old units like Israeli M48 fighting T80) for the AI. The player is clever enough to choose the units that can be upgraded, not the AI.
3-I think that only two strategic resources should be needed in the game: oil and uranium put in their respective places for oil (the arabian league, north africa, US, Russia, Indonesia, Central Africa and Venezuela, Scandinavia and UK should get one under a Northern Sea harbor to simulate the offshore platforms and for uranium) and uranium (South Africa, Iran, Australia, US and Soviet Union). All the other strategic resources should be IMHO either removed or transformed into bonuses in their real places.
4-It is not IMHO a good idea to give very high cultures values to a few cities (like central africa for example) as the diplomatic relations with the nations that get these cities are very difficult (the relative military, scientific and cultural strengths impact the way negociations are handled).
5-I think that to simulate the vietnamese and korean conflicts, it should be a good idea to define a "communist alliance" with north vietnam/korea and a "democratic alliance" with south vietnam/korea with two agressive AI disliking each other governments and put in each main alliance (I would rather use fascism instead of democracy for the "democratic alliance") with a few units creating wonders (Korea Chineese Intervention, Korea UN Intervention, Vietnam Uprising, Vietnam American intervention) to build to simulate these events (as the AI can not behave correctly there). The goal to create two civilization is to give them equivalent forces and economical capacities (with 5-6 cities each).
6-I read the discussion about planes, from my playtesting, planes are handled in a simple way in Civ3:
- interceptor use only their attack and so should be A/0,
- bombers use only their defence and so should be 0/D,
- fighter/bombers are the only planes using both values but the defence should always be lower that their attack as their attack is their combat value with a fighter setup when their defence is their combat value with a bomber setup.
Finally, I noticed a few mispelling or mistake with the French units/cities:
- the first Dassault plane was named Ouragan (the "u" is missing in the game),
- in the Dassault Mirage F1, Dassault is mispelled (Dassualt instead of Dassault),
- the eastern city should be named Strasbourg instead of Strousboug (with the map setup, I think the correct city name should be Lyon),
- Nantes is not a sea harbor and, from the map setup, I would have named this city Bordeaux),
- the French army used two generations of APC (both used in large quantities) since the war, the first was the AMX 13 VCI (based on the AMX 13 chassis) replace by the AMX 10 P in the 70s (based on the AMX 10 C chassis). The last one looks like the Marder,
- the AMX 32 was never purchased by the French army that skipped it to directly upgrade to the Leclerc (starting in 1993)... but had the French army the money to afford a new MBT, the AMX 32 would have replaced the AMX30.
That is all (sorry for the length of the message), in any case, keep the good work on !
I have a few comments based on the feelings I got after playing a few nations.
1-The first is the fact that some units should be reviewed like the Centurion Mk3 (too strong compared to its counterparts), the F14 (great plane at its time but on its decline at the end of the scenario and in no case equivalent to the F15 like it is stat wise at the moment) and the AMX 32 (I think its 38 defense factor is a mistake as it should be 28 or 30 to be balanced with the other modern armors). I think the Super Sabre range should be brought back to 6.
2-I think the "upgrading" path should be simplified to avoid having multiples units (like 2 P51, 2 F86, 2 M48 or 2 Supermarine Spitfire). For example, if you see the US made armors paths, you have 2 main ones:
- M4 => M48 NATO => Leopard 1 => Leopard 2
- M26 => M48 => M60 => M1 => M1A1
when Israel can not upgrade its armors past the M48 NATO and must create new Merkava 1 units that can be upgraded to Merkava 2 (and the same problems occurs for other nations).
IMHO, the easiest way to do it is to do it this way: M4 => M26 => M48 => M60 => M1 => Leopard 1 => Merkava 1 => M1A2 => Leopard 2 => Merkava 2 as you will get the expected result through the allowed nations filters (the upgrade cost is only linked to the difference in shield costs, not the number of "stages"). It is the way the developpers included the "unique" Civ units in the upgrade paths for example.
The same thing should be applied to guns for example, Field gun => 105mm => 122 mm=> 155 mm => 152 mm self propelled => 155 mm self propelled (the 203 mm can be put in instead of the 152 mm self propelled but the 2 can not fit together in such a tree).
This scheme can be used for all units to simplify the upgrade path (and avoid getting old units like Israeli M48 fighting T80) for the AI. The player is clever enough to choose the units that can be upgraded, not the AI.
3-I think that only two strategic resources should be needed in the game: oil and uranium put in their respective places for oil (the arabian league, north africa, US, Russia, Indonesia, Central Africa and Venezuela, Scandinavia and UK should get one under a Northern Sea harbor to simulate the offshore platforms and for uranium) and uranium (South Africa, Iran, Australia, US and Soviet Union). All the other strategic resources should be IMHO either removed or transformed into bonuses in their real places.
4-It is not IMHO a good idea to give very high cultures values to a few cities (like central africa for example) as the diplomatic relations with the nations that get these cities are very difficult (the relative military, scientific and cultural strengths impact the way negociations are handled).
5-I think that to simulate the vietnamese and korean conflicts, it should be a good idea to define a "communist alliance" with north vietnam/korea and a "democratic alliance" with south vietnam/korea with two agressive AI disliking each other governments and put in each main alliance (I would rather use fascism instead of democracy for the "democratic alliance") with a few units creating wonders (Korea Chineese Intervention, Korea UN Intervention, Vietnam Uprising, Vietnam American intervention) to build to simulate these events (as the AI can not behave correctly there). The goal to create two civilization is to give them equivalent forces and economical capacities (with 5-6 cities each).
6-I read the discussion about planes, from my playtesting, planes are handled in a simple way in Civ3:
- interceptor use only their attack and so should be A/0,
- bombers use only their defence and so should be 0/D,
- fighter/bombers are the only planes using both values but the defence should always be lower that their attack as their attack is their combat value with a fighter setup when their defence is their combat value with a bomber setup.
Finally, I noticed a few mispelling or mistake with the French units/cities:
- the first Dassault plane was named Ouragan (the "u" is missing in the game),
- in the Dassault Mirage F1, Dassault is mispelled (Dassualt instead of Dassault),
- the eastern city should be named Strasbourg instead of Strousboug (with the map setup, I think the correct city name should be Lyon),
- Nantes is not a sea harbor and, from the map setup, I would have named this city Bordeaux),
- the French army used two generations of APC (both used in large quantities) since the war, the first was the AMX 13 VCI (based on the AMX 13 chassis) replace by the AMX 10 P in the 70s (based on the AMX 10 C chassis). The last one looks like the Marder,
- the AMX 32 was never purchased by the French army that skipped it to directly upgrade to the Leclerc (starting in 1993)... but had the French army the money to afford a new MBT, the AMX 32 would have replaced the AMX30.
That is all (sorry for the length of the message), in any case, keep the good work on !
El Justo
Deity
hello leclerc!leclerc said:
welcome to the boards.
i agree that the centurion stats, especially the D no's, could be revised to match the other mbt's of that era. however, my sources say that this model was head and shoulders above the rest of the world's mbt's so we'd want to keep it where it was still the 'top dog' but at the same time, we'd want to keep balance. notes taken on the amx32. thanks.
the problem w/ the upgrade paths you mention is that each of the 'multiple' units like the m48, sabre, etc all need to upgrade to a euro flavored unit rather than an american one. of course, Israel screws the pooch b/c they can't build the leo (for example). i may add in another m48 version just for the Israelis. what we don't want is 'dead end' units or ones that are clearly obsolete and still active.
what about rubber and aluminum as strategic resources? granted, i've never been too hip on a 'game of strategic resources' but i think that these 2 should be in. as it now stands, there's 4 big resources: oil, rubber, uranium, and aluminum. each of the 4 are placed at least once in every civi's borders (usually under cities). lose one of the cities that houses one of these resources and you're in for a big surprise when you open up your build que.
high culture values are given out across the board to a.) stop AI razing (it slows it down actually) and to b.) cover land tiles in order to not have unoccupied land tiles on the map.
re the commie alliances in east asia:
korea is lumped in w/ the chinese simply by default (& the korean war support). north vietnam is left out of any alliance so that they can engage in war vs the nato-like civis and not drag 'ole Uncle Joe (or mao) into the conflict. our experiences w/ Uncle Ho show that he is, as Kly likes to say, "one tough nut to crack"
i'd prefer to leave all of the so-called "irrellevant" A/D no's of the air units alone simply b/c it won't affect gameplay too much. however, knowing that the A values aren't applicable for an air unit that can only run bombing missions is quite helpful.
i apologize for my French misspellings. i often make thatmistake w/ Frech names and the like. notes have been taken. thanks.
as for the french apc's...iirc, they have the panhard as their 1st gen of mech inf. i'd have to look into the others you wrote of but i can't see it being a problem to add the one w/ the marder gfx.
no problems on the message length. thee's no such this as it being 'too long'
Anthropoid
Grognard fantome
mid 1962, I did some espionage against Soviets, Arabs, N Viet, China. Found out China and NV not past me yet, managed to get Air Cavalry, and the one for Field Medevac from the Soviets. Also stole their military plans, and the reason for the turn times slowing down here lately to about 6 or 7 minutes became obvious. They had at least 10 to 13 units in all of their cities west of the Urals. Mostly infantry, but a few armored personnel carriers and tanks mixed in. Very few airplanes of any kind. Seems my carpet bombing has resulted in them desperately building tons of cheap defenders to try to hold on to their cities.
Then tried to (re)plant a spy in Central Africa (I must have had a spy in every enemy AI civ at least twice by now, and still have them in most of my allies). This precipitated a new World War. I shifted all of my nukes to the Hannover air base, moved about 14 M-48s across the straits of Gibraltar, rushed a bunch of F-111s, and rebased as many aircraft to the Hannover air base as possible (BTW, what is the actual name of this base?). In the following turns I focused air power on Berlin, and the Spanish took it. Then I focused on Dresden and now occupy it myself. Last turns I played (late 1962) I had moved my F104s and other short-range craft into Dresden to be able to strike at or support an attack on Odessa. My plan is to take the Caspian and Black Sea area, not getting any closer than 7 tiles from Moscow (where the Soviets still have all their nukes, last time I checked, big surprise), then once I have Moscow surrounded, take one closer city in one fell swoop, and nuke Moscow, breaking the back of the Pact, and sealing my eventual victory. Most likely the Pact will sue for peace before this, but that will be fine, I'll just resume my buildup until war breaks out again.
I'm no longer bombing tiles, because at this point, I feel I have a large enough force to hold on to what I take, and I'm focusing bombing runs only on mischievous Central African saboteurs, and of course on cities. I believe my stack of attackers in Europe comprises something like: 10 F-111s, 15 F-104s, 2 A-1s, 9 A-6, 4 F-104, 15 F-100s, something like that.
Then tried to (re)plant a spy in Central Africa (I must have had a spy in every enemy AI civ at least twice by now, and still have them in most of my allies). This precipitated a new World War. I shifted all of my nukes to the Hannover air base, moved about 14 M-48s across the straits of Gibraltar, rushed a bunch of F-111s, and rebased as many aircraft to the Hannover air base as possible (BTW, what is the actual name of this base?). In the following turns I focused air power on Berlin, and the Spanish took it. Then I focused on Dresden and now occupy it myself. Last turns I played (late 1962) I had moved my F104s and other short-range craft into Dresden to be able to strike at or support an attack on Odessa. My plan is to take the Caspian and Black Sea area, not getting any closer than 7 tiles from Moscow (where the Soviets still have all their nukes, last time I checked, big surprise), then once I have Moscow surrounded, take one closer city in one fell swoop, and nuke Moscow, breaking the back of the Pact, and sealing my eventual victory. Most likely the Pact will sue for peace before this, but that will be fine, I'll just resume my buildup until war breaks out again.
I'm no longer bombing tiles, because at this point, I feel I have a large enough force to hold on to what I take, and I'm focusing bombing runs only on mischievous Central African saboteurs, and of course on cities. I believe my stack of attackers in Europe comprises something like: 10 F-111s, 15 F-104s, 2 A-1s, 9 A-6, 4 F-104, 15 F-100s, something like that.
El Justo
Deity
Anthropoid,Anthropoid said:
that's an interesting report and i'm curious to see how your nuclear war turns out
iirc, the most famous american/nato air base in germany is the one at Ramstein. the Landstuhl base also comes to mind but i think it was consolidated into Ramstein some time in the 50s. there's the bases at Zweibruecken and Sembach, too.
obviously, it'd be real hard to put all of those bases into German territory so this is why there's only 1 base there.
Welcome leclerc.
Just a note on the upgrades, there are a couple of points in play. First is that due to the limitation of the game engine, you can only designate 1 unit that a current unit can upgrade to. As El Justo laid out, a way around that is to have the same unit, but change the name and put in the appropriate upgrade. He has a fair amount of this already.
We have intentionally put in upgrade paths of every other generation of units. Thus T55 upgrades to T72 and T62 upgrades to T80. For most civs, this means that they have a combination of the latest and greatest and also some older, yet still useful equipment. This is a consistent theme (especially for ground units and aircraft) throughout the 20th century when armies became much more material oriented and thus it is represented in game. The other reason is to close a player loop hole that they would otherwise take advantage of. In early games (especially as the WP), I could budget to keep a large stockpile of cash on hand (the AI generally does not do this, prefering to spend it on espionage/rush building). I get the latest generation of tanks and all of a sudden the entire WP fleet of 50 tanks is now the latest and greatest on the face of the planet and oh by the way, we want to show our new hardware to NATO up close.
Just a note on the upgrades, there are a couple of points in play. First is that due to the limitation of the game engine, you can only designate 1 unit that a current unit can upgrade to. As El Justo laid out, a way around that is to have the same unit, but change the name and put in the appropriate upgrade. He has a fair amount of this already.
We have intentionally put in upgrade paths of every other generation of units. Thus T55 upgrades to T72 and T62 upgrades to T80. For most civs, this means that they have a combination of the latest and greatest and also some older, yet still useful equipment. This is a consistent theme (especially for ground units and aircraft) throughout the 20th century when armies became much more material oriented and thus it is represented in game. The other reason is to close a player loop hole that they would otherwise take advantage of. In early games (especially as the WP), I could budget to keep a large stockpile of cash on hand (the AI generally does not do this, prefering to spend it on espionage/rush building). I get the latest generation of tanks and all of a sudden the entire WP fleet of 50 tanks is now the latest and greatest on the face of the planet and oh by the way, we want to show our new hardware to NATO up close.
Adler17
Prussian Feldmarschall
This I posted in WW2 Global but is here also valid.
Adler
Here is the MP version. No need to download any other files as long as you have the 1.51 version.
The 8 positions are as follows:
Warsaw Pact (includes Yugoslavia and Cuba)
United Kingdom (Includes the UK, Canada, South Africa and ANZAC)
Seato (includes Japan, SE Asia, Indonesia)
China-India (includes China, India, and Vietnam)
Latin America (includes all of South America and Central America)
Africa-ME (includes all of Africa except South Africa and the old Iran-Afganistan-Pakistan)
Nato (includes Western Europe, Greece, Turkey, and Israel)
United States
Alliance 1 is Nato, UK, US, and Seato
While the WP and China-India are on friendly terms with each other, they are not in a locked alliance.
Some changes from the basic version:
1. AA values have been doubled on all units.
2. Road movement is now 4
3. Some VP locations have been added here and there and a few taken away.
4. F100 range reduced to 6
5. Some roads added here and there. A couple of African cities now have access to the sea. (And yes, I know Cairo is not a port, but there are plenty of naval bases around it and we simply don't have room to add a port city on the map as it is).
6. Couple of additions to the starting WP order of battle.
7. Many infantry are tied to a particular resource in order to keep them "local"
8. Several wonders have had corruption reducing effects added to them.
9. Infantry cost and value tweaked to fit each position.
10. The AI build priorities have been tweaked compared to the regular game.
For "house" rules, I would say no war on the first turn in order to allow everyone to get one turn in.
Enjoy!
*EDIT* Removed V1.0 and put V1.1 up to avoid a crash bug with a unit later in the game.
*EDIT* Removed V1.1 and put 1.2 up. There are several changes in this version from the old one.
The 8 positions are as follows:
Warsaw Pact (includes Yugoslavia and Cuba)
United Kingdom (Includes the UK, Canada, South Africa and ANZAC)
Seato (includes Japan, SE Asia, Indonesia)
China-India (includes China, India, and Vietnam)
Latin America (includes all of South America and Central America)
Africa-ME (includes all of Africa except South Africa and the old Iran-Afganistan-Pakistan)
Nato (includes Western Europe, Greece, Turkey, and Israel)
United States
Alliance 1 is Nato, UK, US, and Seato
While the WP and China-India are on friendly terms with each other, they are not in a locked alliance.
Some changes from the basic version:
1. AA values have been doubled on all units.
2. Road movement is now 4
3. Some VP locations have been added here and there and a few taken away.
4. F100 range reduced to 6
5. Some roads added here and there. A couple of African cities now have access to the sea. (And yes, I know Cairo is not a port, but there are plenty of naval bases around it and we simply don't have room to add a port city on the map as it is).
6. Couple of additions to the starting WP order of battle.
7. Many infantry are tied to a particular resource in order to keep them "local"
8. Several wonders have had corruption reducing effects added to them.
9. Infantry cost and value tweaked to fit each position.
10. The AI build priorities have been tweaked compared to the regular game.
For "house" rules, I would say no war on the first turn in order to allow everyone to get one turn in.
Enjoy!
*EDIT* Removed V1.0 and put V1.1 up to avoid a crash bug with a unit later in the game.
*EDIT* Removed V1.1 and put 1.2 up. There are several changes in this version from the old one.
El Justo
Deity
excellent work Kly!
it most definitely will be a certain hit!
we should begin to take a formal signup i guess.
it most definitely will be a certain hit!
we should begin to take a formal signup i guess.
nivekclough
Working Like Crazy
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2004
- Messages
- 352
Just got the MP version... If I didn't have to go to work I'd fire it up now 
Band
Chieftain
It's been some time I don't post here. Anyway, things are going like this (US, Demigod):
-In 1957 I waged a short war against the Soviets and managed to capture Berlin and Dresden. Now I have a more permanent base in Europe. I just have to prepare myself for the final war against the Soviets. But for now I'm biding my time.
-In 1959 the British declared war on the Chinese, the SE Asians declared war on the Soviets, and the Soviets were already at war against the Chinese, so now I can say I'm really going through World War III. Although this war wasn't part of my plans, things are actually going better than I expected. I took this war as an opportunity to remove the Soviet missiles from Cuba. Just carpet bombed their base and sent the Rangers there (if I'm going to capture a base, I must do it with style). Unfortunately, the Brazilians were faster and captured the base before me. After that, just made the Rangers join the main invason force of 8 M48s and 8 M113s. The following turn I carpet bombed Cienfuegos and captured it without suffering any loss.
Now I'll just finish what I started in Cuba and wait for peace. The Soviets aren't really attacking Europe, so I'll just hold things as they are over there. This isn't the time for the real war against the Soviets.
-In 1957 I waged a short war against the Soviets and managed to capture Berlin and Dresden. Now I have a more permanent base in Europe. I just have to prepare myself for the final war against the Soviets. But for now I'm biding my time.
-In 1959 the British declared war on the Chinese, the SE Asians declared war on the Soviets, and the Soviets were already at war against the Chinese, so now I can say I'm really going through World War III. Although this war wasn't part of my plans, things are actually going better than I expected. I took this war as an opportunity to remove the Soviet missiles from Cuba. Just carpet bombed their base and sent the Rangers there (if I'm going to capture a base, I must do it with style). Unfortunately, the Brazilians were faster and captured the base before me. After that, just made the Rangers join the main invason force of 8 M48s and 8 M113s. The following turn I carpet bombed Cienfuegos and captured it without suffering any loss.
Now I'll just finish what I started in Cuba and wait for peace. The Soviets aren't really attacking Europe, so I'll just hold things as they are over there. This isn't the time for the real war against the Soviets.
El Justo
Deity
i'll take a look Adler. thanksAdler17 said:
El Justo
Deity
hi Band. welcome back.Band said:
i've had a devil of a time capturing Berlin, etc. did you sustain heavy losses?
did you notice soviet activity in cuba before you captured their air base? ie did they at least put up a fight?
we're hoping the special ops units ar emore valuable now for v1.51 and beyond.
keep the reprots coming!
Anthropoid
Grognard fantome
I'm still quite keen on the PBEM. I'm traveling and not at my laptop with the game on it at present, but can be tonight or tomorrow, and will download the game at first opportunity (though sadly by dialup instead of dsl).
My turns have got to be 5 to 10 minutes so I'm slowing down in my progress. The last turn I played was not quite 1964 I believe. WWX or something alnog those lines was well underway, and I was cranking out F-14s. research labs, and working on the Lunar Landing, and Overseas Research Center. I had taken Odessa, Sevastopol (and I THINK one other city in that vicinity), and rush built Natl TV Stations, Cinemas, and entertainment complexes in all my European cities, as well as barracks and airport in Dresden. When I last played, the war had been on for about 4 or 5 turns, and no troop actions by any of the opposition, so I was just waiting, building up a nice force of scores of M-60s, F-111s, F-14s, etc. Will post a more substantial report later.
My turns have got to be 5 to 10 minutes so I'm slowing down in my progress. The last turn I played was not quite 1964 I believe. WWX or something alnog those lines was well underway, and I was cranking out F-14s. research labs, and working on the Lunar Landing, and Overseas Research Center. I had taken Odessa, Sevastopol (and I THINK one other city in that vicinity), and rush built Natl TV Stations, Cinemas, and entertainment complexes in all my European cities, as well as barracks and airport in Dresden. When I last played, the war had been on for about 4 or 5 turns, and no troop actions by any of the opposition, so I was just waiting, building up a nice force of scores of M-60s, F-111s, F-14s, etc. Will post a more substantial report later.
El Justo
Deity
10 September update
i'm definitely going to release a v1.6
there's a few fixes, additions, and tweaks that we have in mind.
all units in bold are new additions.
added in:
F-104 [export] same stats, techs, etc - upgrades to F-104G [export]
F-104 (US) same stats, techs, etc - upgrades to F104G (US)
F-104G [export] +5A/+1D, same op range, +10 (20) bmb, +1 rof (3), requires "Adv Jet Ftrs" tech (about 5 techs after F104) - upgrades to Tornado GR1 (the old "Tornado" unit - see below)
F-104G (US) +5A/+1D, same op range, +10 (20) bmb, +1 rof (3), requires "Adv Jet Ftrs" tech (about 5 techs after F104) - upgrades to F-16 Falcon (US)
F-16 Falcon [export] existing stats
F-16 Falcon (US) existing stats
Tornado GR1 - was the "Tornado" unit, same stats (G/A aircraft~no interception)
Tornado F3 - was the "Tornado - RAF" unit, same stats (interceptor/lt bomber)
now, the f104 is already in-game. however, Adler raised a good point about the f104G variant and how it upgrades to a Tornado. as such, the "export" Starfighter now is upgraded to the G variant and then the Tornado GR1 which was fka as the "Tornado". the unit fka "Tornado - RAF" is now the "Tornado F3" which is a high-end interceptor and lt bomber. all civi assignments to these units remain unchanged; ie whoever could build the old Starfigher and Tornados can also upgrade to and from the G variant.
the f16 falcon (US) is also in b/c the G variant Starfighters (US) upgrade to it. hence no dead end unit line for any civi.
Knox class & Meko 200 class frigates: the FF ---> FFG line
the knox is now available at the middle of the 1st era. the meko is unlocked mid-way through the 3rd era. it's important to note that the frigates in TCW are the 1st sea vessels outside of the subs (the knox class that is) to 'see invisible'. iow, this is the frigate's only real redeeming quality but an option it is. top end DDs/DDGs also have this ability but are unlocked later in the game.
civis who can build the Meko 200 FFG: Greece, Turkey, WG/LL, Australia/NZ, Spain/Port
also added:
- to WG/LL: 3 "Veteran" Panther mbts; removed ability to build the M4 Shermans
- to WG/LL: the HNLMS Karel Doormann CVL (colossus class cvl) + 1 Hawker Seafury
- to WG/LL: Type 209 class submarine, available middle of the 2nd era, other civis who can build it: Arg/Chile/Bol, Col/Peru/Venez, Greece, Turkey, S Afr, Indonesia, India
- to WG/LL: Type 206 class sub, available late 2nd era/early 3rd, WG/LL only unit
it's good to add the 209 b/c it fills in the gap we had w/ the french subs serving as the 'de facto' export subs.
the range on the F100 has been nudged down to 6 (was 12). thanks DarthCycle.
i've also done some extensive tests w/ the AA defense no's and the actual kill ratio and percentages for the ground-based AA units. i'm still fiddling w/ it...
there's a few other minor things we're exploring but all in all, it's looking like a 'fine tuning' is in order for v1.6
i'm definitely going to release a v1.6
there's a few fixes, additions, and tweaks that we have in mind.
all units in bold are new additions.
added in:
F-104 [export] same stats, techs, etc - upgrades to F-104G [export]
F-104 (US) same stats, techs, etc - upgrades to F104G (US)
F-104G [export] +5A/+1D, same op range, +10 (20) bmb, +1 rof (3), requires "Adv Jet Ftrs" tech (about 5 techs after F104) - upgrades to Tornado GR1 (the old "Tornado" unit - see below)
F-104G (US) +5A/+1D, same op range, +10 (20) bmb, +1 rof (3), requires "Adv Jet Ftrs" tech (about 5 techs after F104) - upgrades to F-16 Falcon (US)
F-16 Falcon [export] existing stats
F-16 Falcon (US) existing stats
Tornado GR1 - was the "Tornado" unit, same stats (G/A aircraft~no interception)
Tornado F3 - was the "Tornado - RAF" unit, same stats (interceptor/lt bomber)
now, the f104 is already in-game. however, Adler raised a good point about the f104G variant and how it upgrades to a Tornado. as such, the "export" Starfighter now is upgraded to the G variant and then the Tornado GR1 which was fka as the "Tornado". the unit fka "Tornado - RAF" is now the "Tornado F3" which is a high-end interceptor and lt bomber. all civi assignments to these units remain unchanged; ie whoever could build the old Starfigher and Tornados can also upgrade to and from the G variant.
the f16 falcon (US) is also in b/c the G variant Starfighters (US) upgrade to it. hence no dead end unit line for any civi.
Knox class & Meko 200 class frigates: the FF ---> FFG line
the knox is now available at the middle of the 1st era. the meko is unlocked mid-way through the 3rd era. it's important to note that the frigates in TCW are the 1st sea vessels outside of the subs (the knox class that is) to 'see invisible'. iow, this is the frigate's only real redeeming quality but an option it is. top end DDs/DDGs also have this ability but are unlocked later in the game.
civis who can build the Meko 200 FFG: Greece, Turkey, WG/LL, Australia/NZ, Spain/Port
also added:
- to WG/LL: 3 "Veteran" Panther mbts; removed ability to build the M4 Shermans
- to WG/LL: the HNLMS Karel Doormann CVL (colossus class cvl) + 1 Hawker Seafury
- to WG/LL: Type 209 class submarine, available middle of the 2nd era, other civis who can build it: Arg/Chile/Bol, Col/Peru/Venez, Greece, Turkey, S Afr, Indonesia, India
- to WG/LL: Type 206 class sub, available late 2nd era/early 3rd, WG/LL only unit
it's good to add the 209 b/c it fills in the gap we had w/ the french subs serving as the 'de facto' export subs.
the range on the F100 has been nudged down to 6 (was 12). thanks DarthCycle.
i've also done some extensive tests w/ the AA defense no's and the actual kill ratio and percentages for the ground-based AA units. i'm still fiddling w/ it...
there's a few other minor things we're exploring but all in all, it's looking like a 'fine tuning' is in order for v1.6
Band
Chieftain
Actually, I suffered few losses. I expected their resistance to be tougher. But I forgot to mention that I have a Corps with 3 M48, thus making my attack a lot easier. "Freeing" Germany wasn't hard at all. Also, each city was bombed with everything I had before the attack. Those B-52s are fantastic. Something that surprised me was the absence of any air defence.
There was only one infantry in their base in Cuba. Since I expected some resistance there, I bombed the base before attacking. That infantry was destroyed by the second B-52. The only Soviet action in the region was an attack with bears against my transport convoy on its way back. I've lost 3 empty (fortunately) transports and a fourth one got severely damaged.
Now I've finally "freed" Cuba. It took me only 5 or 6 turns. And I also made peace with the Soviets. As I said before, it's not their time yet.
There was only one infantry in their base in Cuba. Since I expected some resistance there, I bombed the base before attacking. That infantry was destroyed by the second B-52. The only Soviet action in the region was an attack with bears against my transport convoy on its way back. I've lost 3 empty (fortunately) transports and a fourth one got severely damaged.
Now I've finally "freed" Cuba. It took me only 5 or 6 turns. And I also made peace with the Soviets. As I said before, it's not their time yet.
Band
Chieftain
One thing I might suggest. Maybe the F-4 Phantom could be avaliable earlier. It is bit strange making it avaliable at the same time as the F-14 Tomcat because the latter replaced the former in the US Navy.
nivekclough
Working Like Crazy
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2004
- Messages
- 352
Any news on when the PBEM will be set up? It looks like 6 players would be good (US/Seato, UK/Nato, WP, China, Africa, and Latin America) However, having the AI play a few would be ok (I'd say China and Africa would be the "best" to be played as by AI).
I really like the idea of Latin America being out of the alliance. This way, the US does have to either leave some forces at home, or make the Latin American's happy allies. (Although I know a war between Latin America and USA would be historically inarcurate, it'd make VERY interesting playing).
I really like the idea of Latin America being out of the alliance. This way, the US does have to either leave some forces at home, or make the Latin American's happy allies. (Although I know a war between Latin America and USA would be historically inarcurate, it'd make VERY interesting playing).
donkeyimage
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2005
- Messages
- 16
First of all I'd like to say that playing this scenario is like rediscovering civlization III, and I have been playing it every chance i get for the past few months. Thank you El Justo for making this wonderful scenario.
Now I'd just like to say two things:
1. my time counter thing doesn't work. The one that says week __ year ____, it's just stuck on december and I can't seem to get it to work. This also happened with 1.4.
2. Also, I think the smaller third world nations should get more unique units, at least specific to third world countries only, that would help in repelling an onslaught of porwerful troops from powerful nations. I am saying this as Iran/Afghanistan/Pakistan being overrun by warsaw pact troops and wasting large portions of my army driving them back. This actually isn't that significant, but as an underdog player i think it would be great.
One more thing, I don't know if this was mentioned but spies from friendly and enemy nations keep stealing my workers but when I tried it the game just killed off the player...
Once again, thank you for this great scenario and I look forward to the next one.
Now I'd just like to say two things:
1. my time counter thing doesn't work. The one that says week __ year ____, it's just stuck on december and I can't seem to get it to work. This also happened with 1.4.
2. Also, I think the smaller third world nations should get more unique units, at least specific to third world countries only, that would help in repelling an onslaught of porwerful troops from powerful nations. I am saying this as Iran/Afghanistan/Pakistan being overrun by warsaw pact troops and wasting large portions of my army driving them back. This actually isn't that significant, but as an underdog player i think it would be great.
One more thing, I don't know if this was mentioned but spies from friendly and enemy nations keep stealing my workers but when I tried it the game just killed off the player...
Once again, thank you for this great scenario and I look forward to the next one.
nivekclough
Working Like Crazy
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2004
- Messages
- 352
To fix the week year bug, just update your version of conquests with the newest patch (1.22f I believe). These should be availible on the main Civilization homepage.
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