The Cold War: Playtest Thread

[tootall_2012]

It's good to see that they will put up a fierce attack when near their borders at least.

Except for Greece and Istanbul and the occasional ground clashes in Manchuria and near Urumchi, the primary form of Soviet attacks were carried out by their attack and bomber aircraft, with a few naval attacks for good measure (until I dispatched many of these latter units to the bottom of the sea).

I hadn't really contemplated the thought that China wouldn't stand any chance if they were AI and the Pro-West was human. I think the AI is going to need substantial reinforcements in the SP game assuming China isn't human.

I won’t say they were an easy mark; it took me 46 turns to finally subdue the CCP altogether, but after the initial onslaught which lasted maybe 10 turns, their attacks were never as sustained afterwards and I was finally able to grind them down with superior numbers and admittedly some pretty significant arms purchases in the form of Early Jets, M-26 Pershing’s and Artillery units.

Well, you've convinced me to move them the developing government model. While the Pro-East don't seem to have this issue with the crazy amount of cash, I suppose something similar would also make sense for them. Perhaps, as they are smaller, they could simply have the Communist government? From my reading, it does seem that many of the Pro-West "democracies" established by the U.S. were in fact often more corrupt than what the Communists may have put forth. But, mainly this is an attempt to balance. The Pro-West gets more cities but worse government. The Pro-East has fewer cities but better government?

Unfortunately, I can’t at this time give any useful opinion on the Pro-Eastern factions. I would have to play a similar game from their side to be able to ascertain what weaknesses, if any, they possessed.

Seeing as how the cargo plane is completely worthless in AI hands, I might write an event to swap these out with modern fighters. I was also thinking perhaps when the AI builds an attack aircraft, it also builds a fighter via events? This might be a bit better option than some arbitrary balancer, and would at least reflect that the AI is investing in aircraft. What do you think?

I recommend you spend some time reviewing the casualties list. Case in point you’ll notice that though the Soviets didn’t build any fighter types, they did build quite a few of the following:

Il-2 Soviet Att Aircraft 138
Su-7 Soviet Att Aircraft 104

which would equal 242 Soviet fighters built through the event file!

By comparison, the combined Pro-West fighter force of produced, gifted and purchased units only accounted for 85:

Early Jet Fighter 38
Spitfire Fighter 29
F-86 Sabre Fighter 18

Also, I noticed Europe doesn't seem to have done much of anything in your game, though I suppose this isn't as critical as the Soviets not putting up the best fight.

Yes, that’s correct. The Europeans performance was rather lacklustre throughout the game. The only real threat they posed was with their fleet at the beginning of the game, and as I mentioned in one of my initial posts was the cause of my losing Greece. But otherwise, they proved to be relative push over’s in the rest of my regional conflicts.

This is significant, in the sense, that many of the games objective cities are controlled by the European power. As the Pro-Western powers mainly control the seas, it's much easier for them to acquire these cities then it is for the East.

 

[JPetroski]

The other is to 'surrender' all units (and the city, if there) on a tile. This is 'free', but the units stay where they are.

@JPetroski can limit what units (or cities) can be given away in this way by changing the function

canGiveTileFn

in diplomacySettings.lua, and, perhaps,

What would I need to write to ensure that only naval units can be abandoned, but nothing else? I've been playing around for a bit and am not getting anywhere with this.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

What would I need to write to ensure that only naval units can be abandoned, but nothing else? I've been playing around for a bit and am not getting anywhere with this.

This should work to do exactly what you've asked. (Not tested, so could be typos, etc.)

local function canGiveTileFn(tile,giver)
    for unit in tile.units do
        if unit.type.domain ~= 2 then
            return false
        end
    end
    return tile.owner == giver
end

However, you may want something more flexible,

local forbiddenTileGiftUnits = {}
forbiddenTileGiftUnits[object.uForbiddenGiftUnit.id] = true

local function canGiveTileFn(tile,giver)
    for unit in tile.units do
        if forbiddenTileGiftUnits[unit.type.id] then
            return false
       end 
    end
    return tile.owner == giver
end

 

[JPetroski]

OK... I have made a ton of changes and believe I've worked out the kinks on any bugs this morning. I think this one is ready for another round of playtests. Note, since I have far too many projects on my plate, I really only invested time in bug squashing but didn't have a playthrough on my own. I took the advice of @techumseh , @tootall_2012 , @Prof. Garfield et al and made considerable changes, which is going to affect the balance, but hopefully speeds things up a bit. I'll be having a playthrough now, but didn't want to delay getting it out to everyone, as, frankly, balance is subjective and I need your help.

Aside from bug fixing, I don't intend to make major changes while anyone is taking a go at this. I remain hopeful that we can get a MP game going "soonish" but don't want to have five people have their empires thrown into chaos by bugs or clear imabalances.

I've spent some time addressing many issues, chiefly trying to balance the U.S. vs. the Soviets. Ideally, the two should be a fairly even match, perhaps with the Soviets getting a slight edge, thus requiring Europe and the U.S. to team up to stop them.

Please let me know if you take the time to playtest this. I appreciate it!

CHANGELOG
-59,29 and 37,47 had swamp removed.
-Western Infantry has no sound because Euroinf.wav is missing. FIXED
-I will take away the "missile" trait from the hydrogen bomb munition and SLBM because I think making these air units will get the AI to use them more. I'm still not sure if the AI will use any 99 attack unit if one hasn't been used against them though.
-Closed off some undersea waterways
-Pro-West should be monarchy. Pro-East has it tough enough already so I might let them stay fundamentalist.
-Bump up cash that Soviets get for Pro-East cities since they start with so few (75 from 25)
-SSKs allowed on main map only.
-Subs now have sub flag. I removed missile classification from nukes since they're destroyed after attack by default given 99 attack
-This should more or less solve this as subs can't carry air units and I can restrict what air units a carrier can carry
-Freight now moves 6 spaces instead of 2
-I added a Trans-Siberian highway/railway from the start, as well as the Autobahn. Trans-Siberian RR allows tanks from Vladivostok to reach Moscow in 3 turns. While not "realistic" it should balance better in MP than allowing them to get there in 1 or 2.
-Tweaked western production costs so that often (but not always) Europe will be able to provide a better deal on aircraft. F-14 and F-16 are cheaper than European counterparts, however.
-AI fighter fix. All non-human players have a 20% chance of getting fighters each turn. China and India get less so they don't overpower (the other civs get more as they'll be more geographically diverse).
-Move Hanoi to 84,94
-Pro-West Cities unhappy
-Pakistani Army = None
-Reduce tech rate to 200.
-Soviet unit costs slightly reduced
-Gun truck now passes impassable terrain as it was spawning in jungles and stuck
-China now spawns neutral rebels via rebel spawn mechanism, but can only do this once they research the tech "international power."
-China now has potential to grow extremely rich because once they research "international power" they get 25 gold per Neutral city as well as 25 gold per Chinese city. This plus freight ought to make them a very powerful nation.
-Added in help tab for individual units
-Metropolis added to Washington
-Ganges should no longer stack up AI units
-Fixed Civil Rights bug @tootall_2012 pointed out. I changed the prereqs to two that the U.S. can't acquire, but which exist in the game, so it should prevent the U.S. player from researching this before the event gives it to them.
-Added diplomacy help screen (F3)
-Disabled ability to "abandon" most units. Exception: ships. Ships need to be moved to a location and then transferred to a new civ.
-Confirmed I'm OK with USA/USSR giving certain techs to their proxies
-Changed "Beijing" name to "Peking" but an event changes it back in 1979
-Saigon becomes "Ho Chi Minh City" once the Pro-East take it. It will become Saigon again if the west restores it.
-Renamed "Harare" to "Salisbury" but now it becomes "Harare" once Europe no longer controls the city. It won't restore.
-Fixed issue with probability rolls that caused them not to work as intended.
-Added ability to acquire peace treaties in the single player game. Press '3' to call up menu. You can secure peace treaties with any nation you're at war with, for a cost (currently set at $2500). There is a 60% probability it will succeed and 40% chance it will fail. You have to pay the same amount regardless of the outcome. At some point, I might add other modifiers that increase or decrease the probability, but for now, this will do. Note: it is impossible to make peace with the proxies.
-Added text for formation of the FRG and GDR
-Added formation text for Hungary and Czechoslovakia as they technically formed after the scenario's start
-Deleted terrorist unit and references to same. Added generic IFV vehicle for China and India (used art for Chinese YW531). Enabled techs to allow China and India to build IFV and APC units.
-Added pirate creation events (1/10 chance per turn) to Somalia and the South China Sea. Fires on turn in SP, after production in MP. Pirates given to Pro-East to cause trouble and stretch enemy navies.
-Pirates now grant a bonus when they kill a freighter ($1000). This should make them worth building.
-Most infantry MP increased with exception of airborne as they are dropped from planes and thus can move very fast already indeed.
-Added batch file option to switch in different unit art and event suggesting same

THINGS I DID NOT DO
-I decided against increasing movement speed of roads. I don't think it would be fun to carefully plan an amphibious invasion of one end of a continent and have your enemy bring all of their forces to bear against it in one turn simply because there are 3 month turn increments. There will always be an element of the abstract in any scenario, and balancing gameplay is my main priority. However, as seen above, I did grant the Soviets the Trans-Siberian RR (in this case, a highway) from the start, which enables them to move from Vladivostok to Western Europe in 3 turns, which I think is reasonable. A strategic reserve could always be kept in the center.
-I have not fixed the issue of units not disappearing at sea. That'll need to be fixed for a later release. I took a quick stab at it but have so many projects, this will have to wait. Consider the floating troops target practice in the meanwhile.
-I did not mess with unit costs via events, hoping instead that the rules file can address this by reducing cost. Also, the Soviets get much more money per city controlled by the Pro-East now, so things should rebalance. If they aren't contained, they could create real problems.

 

[JPetroski]

I've decided to play myself in a grand multiplayer game with all 7 civs, to try and see if things are balanced, and also to spot bugs. I've fixed a few things:

THINGS TO IMPLEMENT
-I need to put "Vet swap" from OTR in the game
-All civs should probably start with an engineer

DONE ROUND 2
-Fixed issue where Glasgow wasn't a British home city
-Fixed issue where text box of nothing showed up turn 4
-Fixed 3 more swamp (2x in Russia and 1x in Turkey)
-Changed some home cities of Vietnam European units to France at start
-Fixed Quetta so that it doesn't lose 2x units on first turn
-Gave Pro West the Goverment tech so they can build police stations.
-Fixed spelling error with Hungary event text
-Increased aircraft cost by 2 shield rows, decreased tank cost by 2 shield rows

Anyway, I've played 12 turns so far, and feel like the game is much better balanced with the implementations that you playtesters recommended. Granted I'm playing against myself, but I'm trying to play as various parties might. So far:

-The Soviets / Pro-East have made a strong push in Southeast Asia, overrunning almost the entire region. The west did not respond quickly enough. However, European freighters and American aid have managed to turn Singapore into a major fortress. Europe keeps dumping resources into Singapore each turn and American industry is happy to help. It should allow Britain to maintain a stronghold in the region and perhaps push the Pro-East back.

-The Soviets have meddled extensively with Middle Eastern governments and Turkey, Iraq, parts of Syria and Iran as well as the UAE have fallen. Saudi Arabia is also in trouble. Europe is trying to bolster Kuwait, but it's tough to build up two places at once.

-The United States and Europe have both sent fleets to bombard Turkey and other targets near the Aegean. This allows Greece to turn Pro-West. However, turning Pro-West also allows Soviet tank formations to start moving through Romania and Bulgaria towards the Dardanelles. However, this is not without cost, as many ships (very expensive units most difficult to replace) have been badly damaged and a few sunk. Further, what air power is available is running up against the Soviet MiG-15 which has been widely exported.

-The United States has been busy securing friendly neighbors in Central America. Much of Mexico has gone Pro-West, as have Nicaragua and Honduras.

-Both the United States and Soviet Union have developed the Hydrogen Bomb and can now drop nukes from aircraft.

-The Soviets have built up a massive army in Europe. Right now, it's just for deterrence, but I'll bet it could cause some serious issues. The Europeans are investing in a bigger army and infrastructure, bolstered by the Marshall Plan.

-China is mostly unified as well and is starting to build trade units.
-India is struggling a bit but is making gains in Pakistan.

 

[Konig15]

Hey I checked out the Cold War mod, and this is criticism of your instructions and not the play just yet but

Why can't I build the freight unit as the Americans? Trade is kinda our bag.
Is there a workaround, a not so intuitive thing involving like a freighter or something?
Can I build railroads?

I mean the documentation, IMO needs to have the following very simply laid out
If specialized units are restricted, like say third worlders can't build spies, which civs can and why and possible workarounds

What is the Sorfoxes? transport mechanic?
Is the undersea map just for subs or something else too?

Why on earth would I want to not sign a nuclear Profiliferation pact? I want to crush Communism the right way, with blood and guts, mostly the Red Army grunts Hitler didn't get.
Heck I'd sign a no-first-use pact, maybe even unilaterally if the mechanics were in place. And to further step back from MAD I'd be happy to sign treaties that keep my stat bombers from attacking cities, only attacking units in the field. Cause you know the problem of nuclear war isn't the nukes, it's the doctrine of strategic bombing

And in Europe questions:
Can I/should I bring Greece and Turkey into my camp as they were historically NATO members or not?
Can I/how should I bring in Franco and Scandinavia?
So what happens when DeGaule pulls out of NATO?
Can I do the CANZAUK and bring Australia and New Zealand into a British Federation? If not would you consider making mechanics?
How can I resist decolonization?

As America, how do I stop or what can I do to stop China from falling to Mao?


As of right now I'm getting lua errors every time I select on units. The events seem to play, the whole intro replayed three times as it got to my first turn as America but the hotkey funtions are a no go
I got the Lua patch here:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/totpp-important-bug-fix.648804/#post-15522776
Which was updated in February, but there are no instructions on how or where to install it. I put it in my scenario folder and that didn't work.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

I've attached the scenario in its current state. It requires v0.16 of TOTPP, (and that version doesn't need the bugfix).

Why can't I build the freight unit as the Americans? Trade is kinda our bag.
Is there a workaround, a not so intuitive thing involving like a freighter or something?

You're supposed to play America and Pro West at the same time using hot seat (but still with single player events). Pro West can earn money from delivering Freight, and America can earn a profit selling weapons to Pro West in return.

Can I build railroads?

They're highways in this scenario, and require a tech.

What is the Sorfoxes? transport mechanic?

It's a way to simulate loading a unit onto a land or air unit, for transport, and triggered by a key press. I think you need transport aircraft to take advantage.

Is the undersea map just for subs or something else too?

I think it's just for subs.

Can I/should I bring Greece and Turkey into my camp as they were historically NATO members or not?
Can I/how should I bring in Franco and Scandinavia?

There is a tech to research (for some tribes) called Align European Nation. On the turn you research it, you will have a choice of neutral countries to bring over to your side. Your Pro East or Pro West forces could also make the attack directly.

 

[Konig15]

Awesome!

One question:
In single player can you hotseat America, Pro West AND Europe? Or if not can you hotseat Europe and pro West in a single hotseat?

 

[JPetroski]

Konig I'm a little bit at a loss because the mechanical questions you ask (in regards to freight and Sorfox) are laid out in the readme. Perhaps not the "why" but then its not the designers prerogative to defend every decision they make, they simply tell you what is available and you play or don't. It probably could use, however, an appendix that helps you understand what buildings are needed to build what unit. I do think this scenario badly needs that.

As for all of this:

Why on earth would I want to not sign a nuclear Profiliferation pact? I want to crush Communism the right way, with blood and guts, mostly the Red Army grunts Hitler didn't get.
Heck I'd sign a no-first-use pact, maybe even unilaterally if the mechanics were in place. And to further step back from MAD I'd be happy to sign treaties that keep my stat bombers from attacking cities, only attacking units in the field. Cause you know the problem of nuclear war isn't the nukes, it's the doctrine of strategic bombing

And in Europe questions:
Can I/should I bring Greece and Turkey into my camp as they were historically NATO members or not?
Can I/how should I bring in Franco and Scandinavia?
So what happens when DeGaule pulls out of NATO?
Can I do the CANZAUK and bring Australia and New Zealand into a British Federation? If not would you consider making mechanics?
How can I resist decolonization?

As America, how do I stop or what can I do to stop China from falling to Mao?

I don't know that I'm willing (or that it would be useful) to write a large section dealing with every potential choice and rendering my own opinions.

The "Cans" for Greece Turkey, Scandinavia are all discussed on page 10. The "shoulds" I leave to you.

As for CANZAUK - I haven't considered it. I might consider it in a future version if I research it more and can determine how to handle it, but I'm running out of advance slots.

As for resisting decolonization or stopping China from falling... Kill the baddies that are trying to take your/your friend's cities

 

[Konig15]

Konig I'm a little bit at a loss because the mechanical questions you ask (in regards to freight and Sorfox) are laid out in the readme. Perhaps not the "why" but then its not the designers prerogative to defend every decision they make, they simply tell you what is available and you play or don't. It probably could use, however, an appendix that helps you understand what buildings are needed to build what unit. I do think this scenario badly needs that.

As for all of this:



I don't know that I'm willing (or that it would be useful) to write a large section dealing with every potential choice and rendering my own opinions.

The "Cans" for Greece Turkey, Scandinavia are all discussed on page 10. The "shoulds" I leave to you.

As for CANZAUK - I haven't considered it. I might consider it in a future version if I research it more and can determine how to handle it, but I'm running out of advance slots.

As for resisting decolonization or stopping China from falling... Kill the baddies that are trying to take your/your friend's cities

Well...coming from a newcomer, I don't think the readme lays out much of anything. BUT instead of asking you to fix the documentation, would you be interested if I experimented with the scenario and wrote up the places I feel is lacking in the documentation. After all, I am I am the outsider, and I know very well that when you know something quite well, there are certain things that are obvious to you that aren't to a neophyte. And this way you, you don't have to spend any time trying to figure out what people like me don't know cause I'll explain all in the write up, which can use at your discretion.

 

[JPetroski]

I mean you're free to write up whatever you want and I'd appreciate the help but I would say we're in the midst of a playtest here and have changed things somewhat significantly so you might want to table that until I have a chance to update things with what has been added as there are concepts that are completely unmentioned there (because they didn't yet exist when I wrote it).

My point however is that if there is an unmentioned mechanism, yes it should be mentioned and sorry for the miss. However, the "why" behind things (like "why doesn't the U.S. have freight?") isn't really something I have time to explain in a readme. It's more of an interesting point of conversation for a podcast or something someday but not something necessary in the game materials.

However, since you're starting out as a designer and may simply be curious I'll explain that for your own edification - the U.S. cannot create freight itself because it would be too extremely powerful with it. All former Cold War scenarios struggled with this. Different solutions included combining the U.S. and Europe (which I didn't want to do). Forcing the U.S. to create markets via its proxy was the way I chose to address this. It compels expansion via the proxy. I gave Europe trade because Europe can get beaten up by all angles so I thought this was a useful way to balance against the other players. Your cities might be under assault, but your best cities can really rebound if you invest in trade.

 

[Konig15]

All right, I'm checking the scenario and I definitely see why the US doesn't have freight capacity, GOOD LORD. But actually, if anything Europe is worse in peacetime. I have a LOT of thoughts but am keeping them to myself for the moment as I'm only in 1949, but I do have to ask about the colonial system improvement. Documentation says you can move units between any city with the Colonial system improvement. But HOW? there's no number to call up, L doesn't work. How do you do this?

Also, the Europeans seem to be able to transport their units by gifting themselves, but only with international ports, so I don't think that system is the colonial system transport.

And...as a European player, is there any alternative to utterly smiting India to prevent the discovery of the Decolonization and thus the canceling the British Empire wonder? Actually it sounds liek Crishing Inida is a top goal for a completely ahistorical European player given the allign techs.

I know the documentation says only play a superpower and their proxy, which makes since for everyone not in the West, especially with the Sino-Chinese split historically but is it as a grave a thing to hotseat the US, the EU and the Pro West?

And what about hotseating Europe and the Pro West? With America as the clueless (AI controlled) benefactor of both?
Can the US fund any proxy wars that create Western Inf or Nothern Asian Inf?
And of couse, which file has the proxy wars scripting. If i play around with this I want to have the Europeans able to proxy war as well via the Pro West, but thats a personal thing I don't see as completely ahistorical.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Also, the Europeans seem to be able to transport their units by gifting themselves, but only with international ports, so I don't think that system is the colonial system transport.

I just started a couple games (sp, mp) as the Europeans (with the same scenario files I provided), and I was able to "gift" units between cities with colonial system just fine.

@JPetroski In one of those tests, I host Hanoi on the first turn, and the bug that plunders all gold on the first turn happened, causing some improvements to be sold due to the low tax rate. I think this can be fixed by hex editing the value containing the number of cities owned by the tribe (when modifying A Soaring Spirit, I did that to remove the riot factor for a tribe on the first turn), so that it isn't 0 on the first turn (the number updates every turn).

 

[JPetroski]

But actually, if anything Europe is worse in peacetime.

Not quite sure what you mean by this?

Documentation says you can move units between any city with the Colonial system improvement. But HOW? there's no number to call up, L doesn't work. How do you do this?

It's "2" - I looked and I see the documentation says "between two civs" and so I should probably update this.

And...as a European player, is there any alternative to utterly smiting India to prevent the discovery of the Decolonization and thus the canceling the British Empire wonder? Actually it sounds liek Crishing Inida is a top goal for a completely ahistorical European player given the allign techs.

If you leave the non-aligned movement up to the AI, you will eventually have to deal with a couple of colonies going astray. I think it would be challenging to conquer India in time without losing significant other areas to the Pro-East / Pro-West rebels, but it might be fun to try and pull off.

I know the documentation says only play a superpower and their proxy, which makes since for everyone not in the West, especially with the Sino-Chinese split historically but is it as a grave a thing to hotseat the US, the EU and the Pro West?

And what about hotseating Europe and the Pro West? With America as the clueless (AI controlled) benefactor of both?

No, you should not do this. The U.S. is not necessarily a "benefactor" of Europe in the SP game. Pro-West units will spawn in European controlled colonies to try and take them over in the SP game.

Can the US fund any proxy wars that create Western Inf or Nothern Asian Inf?

I'm not sure but I don't think so.

And of couse, which file has the proxy wars scripting. If i play around with this I want to have the Europeans able to proxy war as well via the Pro West, but thats a personal thing I don't see as completely ahistorical.

It's in the EventsSP and EventsMP files. Unfortunately the way this is coded would take you considerable work to make this little tweak.

@JPetroski In one of those tests, I host Hanoi on the first turn, and the bug that plunders all gold on the first turn happened, causing some improvements to be sold due to the low tax rate. I think this can be fixed by hex editing the value containing the number of cities owned by the tribe (when modifying A Soaring Spirit, I did that to remove the riot factor for a tribe on the first turn), so that it isn't 0 on the first turn (the number updates every turn).

I wasn't aware this was even a bug, so thanks. Is this something you hex edit the scenario file for or the 'work on' save?

 

[Prof. Garfield]

I wasn't aware this was even a bug, so thanks. Is this something you hex edit the scenario file for or the 'work on' save?

I just realised that cities counter isn't the relevant value here. Plunder is calculated using a formula along the lines of treasury*(cityPopulation/(civPopulation+1)), but civPopulation is 0 at the start of the scenario.

In catfish's saved game reference the label appears to be "Sum of the city sizes".

I think you would only have to edit this in the work on save, but I haven't tried it out.

 

[Konig15]

Not quite sure what you mean by this?

Well, Because I'm hotseating a personal three player game (Europe, US, West) I have altered several of the movement values, the transports and the frieght units especially because I like micromanagement but logistics I find tedious, and frankly unrealistic. If there's a hot war with the Soviet block that would actually impede naval traffic, I'd reserve those values.

The bottom line is this:
With the Colonial system in place, building a freight unit in Jakarta using a rush build a primary school (yes I ignore the rush build, I consider micromanagement an important part of playing the game optimally) costs maybe 115 gold with one to ten shields in the kitty. Getting it to New York yields 3000 gold, not a compatible commodity, just anything. Also, if you take goods from London, giving it all the space it in it's city space, you max out the trade connections with New York, then you run the rest (cause in my game London's been producing Armaments since turn 1), funnel these freights through Canada and then sail through Vancouver to Tokyo, and assuming the devastation has been cleared, you're going to net 2500 from London, similar numbers from a very infrastructure deficient Paris.

My upping the movement points makes this process faster, a lot faster, but the payouts are still extreme, and the costs of building freight is low.

Also, for the Europeans gutting India, it's not hard, it's a geostrategic necessity. The British and French navies together are the second biggest in the game, can be in Indian waters by the middle of 1948 or sooner, but the big driving issue for me was that making freight out of Cairo and Alexandria was so stupidly profitable, shipping it via Casablanca to New York that losing it OR Algeria OR Indonesia would be so crippling, I'd rather losing West Germany by a damn sight because I was making so much Scrooge McDuck money from my colonies I could literally buy enough Pershing tanks to down the Soviets, then equip the entire Imperial Gaurd of Warhammer 40K. Not the Cadia Garrison, the ENTIRE Emperor forsaken Gaurd.

So even the thought of what the Non Aligned movement could do to my little slice of heaven, I was was gonna bring more pain to Nehru than a Hellraiser marathon and there would be no talk of Angels to Some. Frankly, once you get either of India's international ports, it's over. You can import anything you need and you have all the blood-money of colonialism to pay for it. It's the second coming of Charles Napier, and it's kinda awesome like Joe Pesci crushing that guy's face with a Vice in Casino. Brutal, without any finesse or sympathy and it makes you squirm, but it's impressive. It took me like five turns to conquer India and I purchased....four f4s, two tanks, and an artillery piece. Being international ports repair naval vessels after one full turn and cannot be destroyed, as long as I kept the frigates out of the line of fire, anything on the coast died. I may also have used spitfires from Hong Kong to cover the advancing army but that was generally unnecessary.

And now it's 1952 and the Dutch have completely won in Indonesia, and my British guys are hanging out in Bengazi on standby if Nasser has any ideas about overthrowing the Monarchy.....we already pitilessly restored Peter to the throne in Yugoslavia. we will brook no dissent on our rule....but everyone's making so much money there really isn't a lot of popular support for revolutions either.

 

[JPetroski]

The scenario is not designed for a single player to use the three civs you are utilizing with the SP events. Lua has an "isHuman" check that I have utilized. Basically, by having all three of these civs "isHuman," you've made it so you've taken away 1/2 of Europe's competition, because negative events from Europe's perspective will not fire with the situation you've set up. Even if these events did fire, it's unlikely you'd use the western forces to challenge Europe.

So, basically, you're playing in a sandbox, but doing something the scenario was neither intended nor designed to support. I'm not going to worry about how you play, but I don't intend to add support for this situation going forward either.

On the other hand, did you have any ideas for how CANZAUK might be implemented? I haven't done much research on this and am curious what you think.

 

[Konig15]

OK, I'm not sure given I don't know how the Pro West/European interactions are supported to work on the deep level. See, I had NO idea how much I screwed up the events chains, in fact I still don't, because I can't read lua.

Roleplaying wise, you're gonna have to convince the fuddie duddies in the UK the writing's on the wall and that the Empire is doomed and that a more racialist "White" Federation is the only sustainable way to have any clout via between the US and the and the rising European Unionists. RP this is Brexiteering before the EEC can really start and turning it into an alliance, which I'm more than fine with.

So....you end free trade, enact protection within the "white dominions" South Africa never counted for this for many ethnic groups, the Boers especially, lots of bribes and maybe five turns of 2000 gold of "integration costs" ei the most brazen bribes you've ever seen

As to how to facilitate, I suggest unit consolidation. Western Infantry, really should be for Europe and for Pro West with a script to add another movement point for Europe. I personally would be OK with replacing US Infantry with Western Inf and soviet too, even it it meant a script where the soviet got a second infantry for everyone they built instead of one more balanced with the actual current shield cost.

Also, I think you don't understand my point about the colonies. The Pro West's ability to take colonies and the ability to hold them are NOT the same the same thing in this game. The passive income stream from the colonies is absolutely irrelevant, it's their ability to built freight, and because the Pro West tend to spawn in Africa, which can't build the urban expansion, I'm losing the opportunity to build maybe 600 gold freight units? African colonies are probably a wash. MIDDLE EASTERN ONES, on the other hand...

And the Pro West never spawned with ANY stuff there. I'm afraid to lose Dakar. Not engaging with the Por West was a Roleplaying decision, and in this game, it's not a one-sided one. I could and would crush the balls of Pakistan and Isreal if so challenged. In this game, unlike real life, I have the political will to hold onto my colonial holdings at all costs, the one exception being in theory Vietnam but that's only until I'm wealthy enough to come back in and curb stomp it to come back in and make a point.

That is something to keep in mind for the scenario design, unlike the RL Suez crisis, I will take death before dishonor. Power is what matters to me. And in practice, the US does not have a means of leverage over Europe to compel a historical outcome in a situation like that. Not that I've seen anyway.

 

[Konig15]

The scenario is not designed for a single player to use the three civs you are utilizing with the SP events. Lua has an "isHuman" check that I have utilized. Basically, by having all three of these civs "isHuman," you've made it so you've taken away 1/2 of Europe's competition, because negative events from Europe's perspective will not fire with the situation you've set up. Even if these events did fire, it's unlikely you'd use the western forces to challenge Europe.

So, basically, you're playing in a sandbox, but doing something the scenario was neither intended nor designed to support. I'm not going to worry about how you play, but I don't intend to add support for this situation going forward either.

On the other hand, did you have any ideas for how CANZAUK might be implemented? I haven't done much research on this and am curious what you think.

Given I've played only up to April 1957, I have several comments and one strikingly important bug
Cargo Planes
1. Cargo Planes WILL NOT load or unload on tiles with rives on them. Tired this at London Bamako and Niamey (the latter two in French Western Central Africa), as well as Mandalay in Burma, which the rules also make COMPLETELY unreinforceable via this tactic without changing the possibilities of transforming terrain

I will also admit I'm not happy with the possibilities of the cargo planes as of this moment. At the very very least, elite infantry units like Marines, French Legion, Ghurkas, as well as spies and engineers should be able to use these birds as well, that's logical, If it's not too mechanically complicated, then using the squadron function, then lashing two together should allow things like regular infantry and field artillery and RPG squads/gun trucks. Maybe, make it so more cumbersome units can only do one unit per plane. Again IF it's not a nightmare to code

2. It's kinda asinine to have roads going through swamps, like the eastern approaches to Thunder Bay in Canada freight trucks cannot cross over or jungles in central Africa when these trucks are the kinds of vehicles those roads are built for. At the world scale, making freight unable to cross impassable terrain makes no sense though in a more restricted space like a much more detailed space like a dedicated Vietnam map where armored cavalry would be needed for specialized roles, then yeah.

3. The Soviet science advancement is very VERY slow. It's 1957 and because it's hot seat I can't cheat to check on progress but they have NOT researched hydrogen bomb.
Suggestion:
In a non-Communist game, or maybe even non-Soviet game, the Soviets need to have the Great Library wonder, maybe call it the Kim Philby Effect or something, certainly, if the Pro West manages to conquer a core Soviet city they should seriously get something, maybe not the hydrogen bomb tech, but something's gone seriously ahistorical.

4. Something I deeply DEEPLY want is to be able to do is to bring up the generic diplomatic screen. Sometimes, when I'm kicking the ever-loving crap out of a foe it will bring it up, this is how I got Pakistan to win a swift and rather humiliating war in the first (and last) Kashmir War in 1947 by storming into Jaipur. But here I could straight-up swap tech with the AI, and while your tech-giving interface might be better than nothing, it's....clunky on a good day and frankly, almost insultingly limited. As Europe, I couldn't even give the US International Commerce, which had NO military significance

5. Settler Units
To be frank, the early game does not please me, and does not give the feeling of rebuilding after a horrifically devastating war. The map looks the part, damn does it look the part, and still does 10 years later. This is because of the OBSCENE cost of Military engineers, no settler unit

Now what I did was give the Pershing tank settler abilities and as the Americans set the buy cost as low as possible. And believe me, for the Europeans the food costs were OBSCENE. But it was worth it for a long time. It's 57 and Europe the EECC has its horsehocky in order

I don't think Military construction should be a tech, I think it should be given, free up the slot, I know it's the slot that allows fortresses but still. The AI desperately needs a settler unit that prioritizes cleaning up devastation, maybe giving the USSR and Europe 10 of them with nones, maybe a movement of 1 if you want to keep the ambiance. Call them War Ravaged Civilians. Also Bring down the cost of Engineers to between 300 and 400 shields, reduce their movement2 but give them impassible movement and treat all as road.

On the other hand, if you REALLY want to keep them at 600 shields, then allow the big three to sell them under the other with the price points to match the shield costs BUT have them and only them be generated as NONE. That would make proxy play a lot more interesting and you'd get some real bang for the buck.

6. Terrain
The notion you can't transform deserts is not entirely unrealistic, but this is the era of "Israel turned the desert green!" so it's not unheard of. Draining swamps happened ALL the time in this era. I think you could free up the city terrain slot by just giving the urban terrain two food and being done with it. Although to be fair, the Urban terrains from Over the Reich are better, in that they are more evocative, the rest of the terrains are great though.

7. Freight
I did a little experiment and came to the following conclusions
1. Europe is FANATICALLY OP in SP, and no amount of Bush wars with the Pro West Faction in Africa will ever, ever change that. By the early 50s, without much straining, my tax rate screen was showing one advancement PER TURN. India's valuable, it's not THAT valuable is sending freight from every corner of four European Empires to New York then using the funds to build research labs EVERYWHERE. The Colonial System it seems is OP barring a shooting war.

America is NOT OP with freight under the following house rule:
America may build freight ONLY to fill out it's its trade slots, no more. In other words in place, every city in America gets three goods to London then it's back to building engineers. Unless they are building food trucks, which aren't all that necessary for a republic, but occasionally the need comes up

8. Ideas
Latin American linked cities should be able to build urban expansions but not Metropolises to keep in spirit with the mod design

All countries should be able to give cities away for PR purposes

Messages accessible with the 1 button should include the reports of insurrections. Those get really hard to remember.

9. Awesome things I probably should have been able to do
1. Started the Interstate Highway program under Truman
2. Used a World War II Carrier Fleet to CRUSH the Vietminh siege of Hanoi, then used another to run interdictions for the ROC until they could retake Manchuria
3. Crushed Tito like a Tootsie roll in a fat man's back pocket sitting down on a park bench
4. Rebuilt Japan and Europe in record time
5. Crushed Kim and Mao in the spring of 49 and there a damn thing Stalin could do to stop me

10 Awesome things I'm pretty sure I should not an
1. (Re)Conquered India as the British....I mean Europeans I swear......without a peep from Washington
2. Put a Man on the Moon in the summer of 1956 so Ike would clinch reelection....like he'd need it against Adlai Stevenson
3. Built my first in my first F-15 in 1957?
4. Built an F-15 in 1957 in a universe that actually WASN'T an Americanwank?! (this is actually more impressive than anything else on this list)
5. I'll have Star Wars in 1958, before ANYONE'S research the Hydrogen Bomb BTW
6. I'm, totally living out my right-wing lunatic/Bond supervillain fantasy of an actually heroic Blofeld covertly leading a motley coalition of.....
Israel
Syria
Iraq
Arabia (not Saudi anymore)
Pakistan
and...Portuga?l
As the Pro-West Faction, Europe and America are totally at peace with the USSR. Not a PEEP. Not a shot fired!

All Bankrolled By Chang Kei Shek and the Empire of Japan and equipped with fully bought and paid-for Bradley IFVs and enough Sabres, Corsairs, and Superfortresses to bomb the Eastern block to rubble AGAIN. Which we're doing.

And once we destroyed the red air force over the Sea of Marmara, it's been a rock star liberation tour of eastern Europe. I put the Hapsburg's back on the throne in Austria and the Hohenzollerns back on the throne in both Romania and what was East Germany! I got one of the Kaiser's sons who wasn't neck-deep in Nazis and he's on a white horse going "Screw you Bundesrepublic, we're Prussia again!" and the horse goes "NEEEEEHHEEEEE!" and it's awesome.

We liberated the revolters in Hungary, the seething Czechs and finally, FINALLY, the Ukrainians walk FREE, FREE AT LAST! Next turn is Warsaw, if not only because Konigsberg has the port. Russia loses EVERYTHING she's gained since 1919! You dance with the Devil, you pay for the drinks, you pay for the bed, you NURSE the hangover AND you deal with the lice!

This was not my intention, but after I got done with the Chinese Civil War there was no option to make peace with the Soviets and they kept nosing around my business, and things got ugly from these.

And this little alt wank, which is totally possible in your gem of a scenario is why I'd like the diplomacy screen back for single player, and for all factions to be able to give cities back via the 2 button.

All and all, hotseating three factions is a self-inflicted Hell I'll NEVER do again, but I'm having a BLAST. I hope this is actually useful feedback

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Given I've played only up to April 1957, I have several comments and one strikingly important bug
Cargo Planes
1. Cargo Planes WILL NOT load or unload on tiles with rives on them. Tired this at London Bamako and Niamey (the latter two in French Western Central Africa), as well as Mandalay in Burma, which the rules also make COMPLETELY unreinforceable via this tactic without changing the possibilities of transforming terrain

It looks like the bug is on line 5179 of the single player events version.

            elseif firstUnit ~= nil and firstUnit ~= "firstUnitFakeLoading" and (activeTile.terrainType == 0 or activeTile.terrainType == 1 or activeTile.terrainType == 2 or activeTile.terrainType == 6 or activeTile.terrainType == 7) then

Which should be changed to

            elseif firstUnit ~= nil and firstUnit ~= "firstUnitFakeLoading" and (activeTile.terrainType % 16 == 0 or activeTile.terrainType % 16 == 1 or activeTile.terrainType % 16 == 2 or activeTile.terrainType %16 == 6 or activeTile.terrainType % 16 == 7) then

I haven't tested this fix.

The function name is

function unloadUnitsOffTruck()

so you can search for that.