The College Kids' Consensus

s09119

Chieftain
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
62
As one of about a dozen friends at my college who were waiting fanatically for Civilization V, I can say that we're all pretty pleased with the result... but we've universally had two major concerns that we believe can be game-breaking. There are plenty of nitpicks here and there over minor things, but these two issues sometimes have gotten all of us to want to turn off the game and just go back to Civ IV for a while.

1. Happiness. Probably the biggest annoyance for all of us, as we just feel that we can't control anything related to it. Once the game's underway and we've begun to work and improve all our luxury tiles, the unhappiness begins to mount from population. I've had a few games now where I'm allied with 4 city-states all handing over luxuries and my populace is STILL livid. We all preferred the Civ IV model where if your happiness plummeted, it was generally your fault... and you could at least do something. When you're working everything, getting every city-state around to give you more, and every contacted civ is refusing to trade you their luxuries for short of everything you have, it gets unbearably frustrating. Even moreso when you've built all the happiness buildings your current technologies allow and the next one to come up isn't for another 3 or 4 techs.

2. Wartime diplomacy. Not necessarily as bad as the last point, but just as insanely annoying. My friends and I have had quite a few games now where even offering nearly everything we had was met with refusal in war. And this wasn't as some last-ditch effort to save ourselves, it was just a test after 300 years of Civ X attacking, usually making no dent in our own nations. It's simply illogical that the AI refuses to give up even for things like all your cities or all your resources when its attacks for the last 50 years have gotten nowhere. Even worse, though, is when you've conquered 3/4 of a neighboring civ, slaughtered their entire army, and are marching toward their last outpost... and they still refuse to accept peace unless YOU hand over everything you have to your name. Completely unacceptable system that really just ruins the experience.

As I said, though, these were the only two big complaints my friends and I have had so far. It's just a shame that these two aspects play such a critical role in the game that they can sometimes outshine the positives.
 
agreed with point 2. Conversely, I had Elizabeth surrender almost all her cities to me while I was engaged in really just a phoney war with her. I didn't even send any units her way and yet she completely rolled over and gave me her empire :crazyeye:
 
The AI is oddly inconsistent when it comes to peace offerings. I've seen them quickly offer a city or two to make peace and stubbornly refuse no matter what. Ironically, it seems that they're more likely to offer a city when they have few, but would rather lose them in war when they have a lot. Or it could just be army sizes (neither one could hold onto their cities, but the larger of the two would have slowed me down at least).
 
1. Sounds like you are expanding too fast. Every new population point in civ adds another unhappiness to your total. You need to expand slow & make sure you have the + happiness infrastructure in place before doing so. This isnt like Civ III or even to an extent Civ 4, where the goal was to expand as quickly as possible right off the bat.

2. Why should they have to make peace with you? Maybe they have pride. If I was playing multiplayer I wouldnt give you anything to stop beating up on me. I would make you wipe me out. :p
 
1) I both agree with this and don't. Sometimes happyness seems to have gone insane when it plummets, but then I look around and realize its my fault because I'm expanding like a beast and the more citizens/cities the more unhappy it gets.

2) Sometimes I hate how they wont agree to peace, sometimes I love it. I've never had them actually offer my anything for peace, but I love it when were evenly matched but the AI is still desperate for peace, so I can take a city or two then peace and keep them.
 
agreed with point 2. Conversely, I had Elizabeth surrender almost all her cities to me while I was engaged in really just a phoney war with her. I didn't even send any units her way and yet she completely rolled over and gave me her empire :crazyeye:

Her plan was to kill you with unhappiness.
 
2. Wartime diplomacy. Not necessarily as bad as the last point, but just as insanely annoying. My friends and I have had quite a few games now where even offering nearly everything we had was met with refusal in war. And this wasn't as some last-ditch effort to save ourselves, it was just a test after 300 years of Civ X attacking, usually making no dent in our own nations. It's simply illogical that the AI refuses to give up even for things like all your cities or all your resources when its attacks for the last 50 years have gotten nowhere. Even worse, though, is when you've conquered 3/4 of a neighboring civ, slaughtered their entire army, and are marching toward their last outpost... and they still refuse to accept peace unless YOU hand over everything you have to your name. Completely unacceptable system that really just ruins the experience.

As I said, though, these were the only two big complaints my friends and I have had so far. It's just a shame that these two aspects play such a critical role in the game that they can sometimes outshine the positives.

I am a little surprised by your number 2. My wars never lasted long before they accepted peace. My recent game england negotiated for peace by giving me all their cities except for their capital. And if i destroyed most of their forces that are trying to invade me. They usually will accept peace.
 
I like the way happiness works. It is supposed to be a check on expansion, thats the whole idea. You have to consider happiness when founding cities and planning your whole expansion strategy.

Playing on King, I find happiness is a challenge but certainly not impossible. This is at it should be.
 
Happiness is fine, IMO.

Wartime diplomacy OTOH, is something that comes close to ruining the game. It's not so much the lopsided peace treaties where after losing 1-2 units they offer everything to me that's a problem, as I can refuse those: it's when they do it to AI civs that the game gets ruined. Hello monster AI civ.
 
How about a slider that lets you contribute a % of your gold (NOT commerce) to happiness? like, each 10% gives you 10% more happiness. Not very original, but it would work- and its tried and true! ;)
 
How about a slider that lets you contribute a % of your gold (NOT commerce) to happiness? like, each 10% gives you 10% more happiness. Not very original, but it would work- and its tried and true! ;)

That's in the game, build happiness buildings and that'll contribute gold toward happiness.

It's just no longer possible to quickly switch back in one turn.
 
Happiness is fine when you get the hang of it. Like others have said, you just need to not over-expand. I kind of wish your social policies and great people generation didn't get hit so hard from expansion, though, because it seems like the game really doesn't want you to have a large empire even if you're playing a civ whose abilities/buildings are suited to it (like Russia). India's ability supports the "3-4 really good cities" playstyle, but I've never been able to have a large empire (even expanding slowly) without having total crap in the social policy and great people areas.

Wartime diplomacy still needs work (even after the patch I've seen the "Please take all of our freaking cities in exchange for peace even though we're not doing too badly in this conflict" bug) but I've never seen the problems you describe. It was much, much harder to get peace in Civ4, as far as I can recall. Here it's made sense to me, and the AI is almost always willing to agree to at least a peace treaty with no terms if I've taken several of their cities and dominated/out-teched their armies. Sometimes they'll even offer it themselves.
 
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