The Concept of Civilization

Infantry#14

Emperor
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Dec 26, 2006
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Bear with me, this is a long thread.

In the beginning of time at 4000 BC, all teams begin as a civilization. However, this is not really correct as nomad dont just become “civilized” when they first settle together and builds their first city. Therefore, I propose that these nomads must live up to the ages and perform great deeds over time in order to become true civilizations. My proposal is a gradient level, which the 1st level is "nomad", the 2nd level is "city-state", the 3rd level is "national-state", the 4th level is "empire", and the ultimate level is "civilization", each requires a set of prerequisites and benefits for becoming that level.

So how can this change incorporate into civ 4? Well, firstly, each leader wont have their starting traits at the beginning in their game. Instead, they need to gradually develop their countries into civilizations. Each time a level is advanced, the leader gains traits that will benefit their countries as I soon discuss in below. (Note that in this system, the civ leaders can pick whatever traits they want, so this allows a replay values and each game will feel different. Of course, Ai controlled civ leaders would have a preference of some traits over others.) In addition to leaders getting traits at each level, there are some minor benefits as well. Lastly, each level has a “collapse” factor, which if not done correctly, that country suffers a 10 turns Dark Age period where each city produce 50% less food, hammer and commerce.

Nomads
Prereq: Build the first city
Benefits: Can pop goodie huts

City-State
Prereq: Build 2 more cities (standard map)
Granary and Library in capital
Benefits: Leaders gets a 1st trait
Two free military units appear at the capital (best possible ground units according to tech and resource)
Collapse: Control beyond 5 cities before reaching Nation-State
First to Reach: The first country reaches city-state gets to switch to hereditary rule without having researched monarchy yet

Nation-State
Prereq: Fight 3 wars in ancient time, or 2 wars in classical time, or simply reaching medieval
All cities are connected via road or sea routes to capital
Minimum of 6 cities (standard map)
Benefits: Leaders gets a 2nd trait
Collapse: Have a Worker Strike
First to Reach: A 25% bonus in hammer production in capital

Empire
Prereq: Control at least 1 World Wonder
Control over 100 military units, or have 1 city in Influential Status in culture
Minimum of 8 cities (standard map)
Benefits: Leaders can improve 1 of 2 traits
Courthouses cover 10% more maintenance
Collapse: Wars that last more than 60 turns (normal speed)
First to Reach: Golden Age lasts 1.5 longer

Civilization
Prereq: Obtained 5 Great People
One Golden Age
Control 3 World Wonders, and build 5 National Wonder or Capitulate/Destroy another country
Reach Renaissance Age
Have a game score of 4000
Benefits: Leaders can improve the upgraded trait, or improve another trait
Get a 3rd trait
Collapse: Combine Unhappiness is over 25% in all cities
First to Reach: One free Golden Age


Traits (Note, Secondary Effect can only obtained at Empire Level, and Tertiary at Civilization Level)

Militaristic
Primary Effect: Barracks, Stables, Walls and Castles build faster
Secondary Effect: Melee and Gunpowder Units start with 2 exp (instead of 0)
Tertiary Effect: Melee and Gunpowder Units train faster and start with Combat 1, Woodsman 1, Guerilla 1

Imperialistic
Primary Effect: Barracks and Courthouses build faster
Secondary Effect: 1 free Great General, and subsequent GG comes faster
Tertiary Effect: Mounted Units train faster and start with Flanking 1 and 2

Seafaring
Primary Effect: Harbors and Dry Docks build faster
Secondary Effect: Wooden Ship train faster and start with Navigation 1
Tertiary Effect: Harbor generates 2 extra trade routes, Can trade over ocean without Astronomy and each water tile gives 1 extra commerce

Engineering
Primary Effect: Granary, Aqueduct and Factory build faster
Secondary Effect: Forge and Factory each yields 10% more production (double with power)
Tertiary Effect: Siege Units train faster, begins with Accuracy and Barrage 1, and Armor Unit begins with Barrage 1

Financial
Primary Effect: Marketplace, Grocer and Banks build faster
Secondary Effect: +1 commerce on each tile already has at least 1
Tertiary Effect: Corporation cost less maintenance and 1 free merchant specialist in each city

Scientific
Primary Effect: Library, University, Observatory, and Computer Labs build faster
Secondary Effect: 1 free scientist specialist in city with Academy and Academy +50% science bonus
Tertiary Effect: Each scientist specialist yields 3 more beakers and 1 free scientist specialist in each city

Spiritual
Primary Effect: Temple, Monastery and Cathedrals build faster
Secondary Effect: No anarchy and Holy City gives 3 free priest specialists
Tertiary Effect: 2 free priest specialists in each city

Creative
Primary Effect: Monuments, Theaters and Broadcast Towers build faster
Secondary Effect: 1 free artist specialist in each city
Tertiary Effect: 1 free Great Artist and each artist specialist yields 4 more culture

Industrious
Primary Effect: Forges, Factories and Wonders build faster
Secondary Effect: Workers work 50% faster
Tertiary Effect: 1 free engineer specialist in each city

Expansive
Primary Effect: Granary, Aqueduct, Harbor and Hospital build faster
Secondary Effect: Workers and Settlers build 100% faster
Tertiary Effect: +1 population to each city (one time only), +5 health in each city


Example:
Lincoln
City-State: pick Industrious
Nation-State: pick Expansive
Empire: Improve Industrious
Civilization: Improve Industrious again, pick Financial
 
no.

1) Would lead to exploiting to get the requirements. For example, for the "fight 3 ancient wars" requirement, just find 3 people who can't get to you, declare war, wait 10 turns, peace.

2) Would be overpowering if you got it before someone else.

3) Wouldn't really add anything to gameplay.
 
I think it's an interesting idea to walk people through the stages of world dominance. There are a few problems, though.

- Nomads are pretty far outside the Civ model. The game starts at the city-state level. Not to say that they couldn't introduce something like this, but it would have to be dead simple. The early game is one of the things about Civ that really works, and I know I'd hate to see it get mucked up.

- the nation state did not essentially exist until the 1600s, or the 1800s -- depending on who you ask. (still, you could probably impose a "kingdom" level between the city-state and empire level)

- the empire level does not really come after the nation state level. Nation States trump empires, and cause them to collapse. The Ottoman Empire could not oppress Greece for too long. The British Empire could not oppress India for too long. Nations emerge within an empire, and demand their own state-hood. This often results in bloodshed.

- the civilization level is kind of nebulous. some people think of civilizations as being synonymous with nations. i tend to think of a civilization as a meta-identity, almost like race or ethnicity, but with more content: like how European civilization is basically Chrisitian. European civilization is not really the project of someone who started out as a nomad and grew, but really something that emerged between multiple states.

Still, I think the idea of in game rewards for certain levels of achievement is a basically good idea.
 
The overall idea is fresh and very good.

I would still like a civ to start with the basic traits at the Primary level as the standard option.

Ok, 'fight three wars' doesn't work. So how about win three wars (points assigned for defeating, pillaging, razing & capturing).

I would like to see more than one way of achieving the civilazation levels.

Some of the benefits are unbalanced and some should be different, but that is often the case in these kinds of suggestions. No big deal. I would would expect Firaxis to refine these.

Instead of defining names for levels of civilization, call it something else. I don't know, civilization control or cohesiveness or something.

I like the dark age idea, as you have control over whether it happens or not. But it is too harsh and no one will like it. I would rather see stunted growth and reduced science. Maybe the dark age could be "cancelled" with a golden age, or at least sacrificing one great person.
 
The idea is too frustrating. If they put it in, sales would depriciate.
 
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