The Concepts of Eastern and Western Europe

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Czechia (Bohemia) has Western tech in EU3 and EU4. Slovakia on the other hand should be Eastern.

Thats what you get when mumy is Eastern and dady Western: Central European child....

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

Population density in Europe in late 1930s (map was published in 1938):

Notice how sparsely populated are some regions of Germany (and allegedly they had shortage of "Lebensraum"):

They need to think of the future. Beside, they needed to regain the land connection to Ostprussen anyway...

 

[Domen]

They need to think of the future.

And in this future (i.e. nowadays) Germany is becoming Lebensraum for Turks.

Beside, they needed to regain the land connection to Ostprussen anyway...

So they started a World War and lost both the connection and Ostpreussen. Wise!

 

[Domen]

But at least we can say, that after WW2 Germany became a Western European country.

Because it lost its eastern territories, and also lost its central territories until 1990.

After the reunification in 1990, Germany became Central European again.

 

[potatokiosk]

Wow... I never realized some people cared so much about which part of a continent they're classified as being a part of.

 

[Domen]

Europe is technically not a continent, though. Rather a subcontinent of Eurasia.

 

[Traitorfish]

But at least we can say, that after WW2 Germany became a Western European country.

Because it lost its eastern territories, and also lost its central territories until 1990.

After the reunification in 1990, Germany became Central European again.

That seems dubious.

 

[Domen]

I agree. But at least it seems.

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

Wow... I never realized some people cared so much about which part of a continent they're classified as being a part of.

That's because Western Europe usually means advanced, rich, etc, etc and Eastern Europe usually means the opposite. So often times, we have people from Eastern Europe desperately trying to argue that their country is not in Eastern Europe.

 

[Domen]

Western Europeans desperately argue that Germany is in Western Europe because Germany is richer and more advanced than Western Europe.

But we know that Germany is in Central Europe, and France, Britain, Italy or Spain are not as rich and advanced as Germany.

 

[Domen]

At least Germans themselves acknowledge that they are not part of Western Europe, but of Mitteleuropa.

Of course Western Europe together with the USA were briefly occupying Germany after 1945.

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

Western Europeans desperately argue that Germany is in Western Europe because Germany is richer and more advanced than Western Europe.

But we know that Germany is in Central Europe, and France, Britain, Italy or Spain are not as rich and advanced as Germany.

As I've said before, there are different ways to split Europe. If we simply use the East-West partitioning scheme, then Germany would fall into Western Europe, as would Italy and Austria.

When I think of Western Europe, I usually think on the lines of Western tech countries in EU3. Everything east of the HRE and Sweden are Eastern tech except for the Teutonic Order.

 

[Domen]

When I think of Western Europe, I usually think on the lines of Western tech countries in EU3.

What exactly is included in "Western tech" in EU3 ???

 

[Domen]

Everything east of the HRE and Sweden are Eastern tech except for the Teutonic Order.

In Civ games when capturing or sacking enemy cities you get their technology.

And Poland has within its borders a hell of a lot of former HRE's, TO's and even Swedish and Danish cities.

 

[potatokiosk]

What exactly is included in "Western tech" in EU3 ???

Every country in or west of the HRE and Scandinavia, Every possible colonial revolter (e.g. USA, Brazil), Kurland, Livonian Order, Prussia, Teutonic Order, The Knights, Venice.
http://www.eu3wiki.com/Tech_group
Poland starts sucking pretty bad in the 1500s if it doesn't westernize... which it won't if it's not human-controlled.

 

[Domen]

Thanks for the link. Very funny that Chinese have only 40% research speed. In which year does this game start?

===============================================

Ok I see, in 1453. And it ends in 1789.

But in such case, funny that you are applying a game which covers only a 300 years long period 1453 - 1789 to entire history and present.

 

[potatokiosk]

Yes, it is funny when people apply stuff that happened hundreds of years ago to the present.

 

[Domen]

BTW - by no means everything in or west of HRE and Scandinavia had the same "research speed" in period 1453 - 1789.

Yes, it is funny when people apply stuff that happened hundreds of years ago to the present.

Even more funny when people don't know what happened. I laughed hard at comment by Pangur Ban in post #152 on page 8.

Great majority of modern territory of Poland has never been part of the Russian Empire, but instead of HRE / Prussia / Germany and Austria.

Most regions of historical Poland which later became part of the Russian Empire are today called Ukraine, Belarus and Lithuania.

Moreover, status of all Polish areas under Russian rule was not the same. There was Kingdom of Poland (autonomous) and Western Krai.

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

Yes, it is funny when people apply stuff that happened hundreds of years ago to the present.

Ironically, the game's decisions on tech groups and relative strengths of nations are heavily influenced by more recent historical events... Namely the locations of the former great powers of Europe and the iron curtain which came later.

 

[Domen]

In year 1850 the following areas of Poland were parts of Prussia, Austria and Russia (WK + CP):

So as you see majority of territory of modern Poland belonged to the Kingdom of Prussia in 1850.

Compare, if you don't believe:

http://home.versatel.nl/gerardvonhebel/euro1850.GIF

The border of the Holy Roman Empire - red line - is also marked on this "euro1850" map posted above.