The Concepts of Eastern and Western Europe

I am a Chinese noodle eater actually. (...) I was technically born in the British Empire.
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China resembled a giant cake for Xianyun, Di, Xiongnu, Juan-Juan, Jin, Tibetans, Mongols, Japanese, Europeans, Russians, British and Americans to eat.

Funny how Mongols conquered the Chinese people while failed to conquer a much smaller and much less populous Poland and Hungary.
 
Haha I see what you are trying here. Unfortunately, I am not much of a nationalist. :)

But if you insist...

Domen said:
China resembled a giant cake for Xianyun, Di, Xiongnu, Juan-Juan, Jin, Tibetans, Mongols, Japanese, Europeans, Russians, British and Americans to eat.
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It sure did. China is probably the worst conquerer given its size and resources. However, it does have a tendency of assimilating those who conquered the country and then enslave them once the ethnic majority regains political power. Say hello to Manchus and Mongols.

Funny how Mongols conquered the Chinese people while failed to conquer a much smaller and much less populous Poland and Hungary.
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Poland, Hungary, and allies were repeated rolled over by the Mongols throughout the 13th century. And by the time they scored a major victory Batu was already long dead. So frankly, they weren't even fighting the same generation of Mongols that devastated Eurasia. :lol:

At the same time Poland and Hungary were minor objectives at a distant geographical region.
 
Domen said:
The Red Army was taking part in filming those movies, IIRC. Yeah I'm interested.
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Yes, military consultants usually participated in filming.
I put the first ones which came to my mind, but there are much more good ones.

Spoiler :
Starting from classics:

The cranes are flying, 1957
Probably the most famous Soviet movie about war, received several international awards.


Link to video.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cranes_Are_Flying

They fought for their country, 1975
Classic Soviet war movie. Very good actors, scenes, dialogues.


Link to video.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Fought_for_Their_Country

Less known, but good:

Only Old Men Are Going to Battle, 1973
Soviet Ukrainian movie about fighter pilots


Link to video.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Only_Old_Men_Are_Going_to_Battle

The Dawns Here Are Quiet, 1972
One of my favorites, based on Boris Vasilyev's novel.


Link to video.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dawns_Here_Are_Quiet
 
I mentioned that I have a relative (uncle) who is Upper Silesian (and who was born in 1938).

I see him rarely, but we have had some historical and political discussions, sometimes heated ones.

So let me try to reconstruct his point of view on cultural-historical divisions of Poland:

This reconstruction will be in an exaggerated form, in order to make it more funny:

Silesian_perspective.png


Mazovia.png


Poland.png


Not that I entirely agree with this point on view. In fact I disagree with most of what my uncle says.

=============================================

In addition to my Silesian uncle's views posted above, you can also check this German propaganda video:

"They want Silesia for Silesians and don't want to be governed by politicians in Warsaw":

So they don't want to be governed by Judeo-Mazovian-Ruskies from Warsaw (just like my old uncle):


Link to video.

=============================================

Did I mention that my Silesian uncle says that Warsaw is an ugly city because it is a Jewish city ???

But at least he never said anything openly Anti-Semitic.
 
There are bilingual names of settlements in that region, German forms (created from originally Polish names) are funny, some examples:

> Polish name – German name

> Bąki – Bonken,
> Błachów – Blachow,
> Bzinica Stara – Bzinitz,
> Bzionków – Bziunkau,
> Dąbrowica – Dombrowitze,
> Główczyce – Glowtschültz,
> Gosławice – Goslawitz,
> Kocury – Kotzuren,
> Liszczok – Lisczok,
> Makowczyce – Makowtschütz,
> Malichów – Malchow,
> Myślina – Mischline,
> Pietraszów – Petershof,
> Pludry – Pluder,
> Rędzina – Rendzin,
> Rzędowice – Rzendowitz,
> Szemrowice – Schemrowitz,
> Turza – Thursy,
> Warłów – Warlow,
> Zwóz – Zwoss,
> Dobrodzień – Guttentag.
 
Domen said:
Stanislaw means something like "become famous" and Wladyslaw "rule famously".
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So the suffix "slav" means famous in er... Slavic language? I was under the impression it is a racial reference. You know... big Slav, tiny Slav.

TheLastOne36 said:
Lol, ywhtptgtfo, please don't confused Domen with Iwanow.

- polskaGOLA
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I don't quite remember that name in the Paradox forum. You sure we are talking about the same Iwanow?
 
You'd find it hilarious if you knew "slav" means glory around here. All it's missing is an a.
 
ywhtptgtfo said:
I don't quite remember that name in the Paradox forum. You sure we are talking about the same Iwanow?
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You post in my mod thread from time to time. :( (MPM)

If the Polish nationalist on paradox forum called Iwanow is the one you are referring too, then yes. Iwanow says stupid things and his arguments are bad. Domen's argument structure is sometimes lacking but I appreciate his arguments and what he has to say.
 
Slavic word "slava" / "slawa" means "glory" and "fame". In Polish rather "fame". Wladyslaw is a name constructed from two elements - "wladac" (to rule) / "wladca" (ruler) / "wladza" (power) and "slawa" (fame) / "slawny". Stanislaw is constructed from "slawny" (famous) and verb "stać się" (to become).

Wladyslaw can also mean "rule gloriously" (see above, slava has two meanings).

But in Polish language "chwala" has been a word for "glory", while "slawa" more often for "fame".

Name Chwalimir means "glorify peace" from "chwala" (glory) and mir (peace).

Then you have for example "praise peace" or "praiser of peace", Slawomir (mir = peace; slawic = to praise). And then for example name Stanimir stands for something like "become peaceful".
 
ywhtptgtfo said:
So the Slavic race should really translate to the "glorious race" in English?
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No. Etymologically it derives from "slovo", i.e. "word". Slavic 'race' (sic) would then mean something like "a race of people who can speak [the language]".

The notion that the etymological source is "slava" - glory - is a 19th century romantic nonsense.
 
Two posts from another thread should be quoted here:

Kaiserguard said:
I wouldn't say I'm a nationalist, let alone a German nationalist. As much as I like things that happen to have something to do German history and German culture, I have lived in the Netherlands for most of my life and I am also of Dutch descent, so in daily life I'd identify more readily with the Netherlands than with anything else, including Germany.

I prefer to identify with regional identities of places I have lived in (i.e. Friesland, Amsterdam) and simultaneously with continental identies (i.e. Europe) over national identities, which I find largely an outgrowth of modernist thought and comparatively artificial, the result of an all-out teleological and political effort rather than something that arose spontaneously.
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Domen said:
Continental identities are comparatively more artificial than national ones.

As much as I like things that happen to have something to do German history and German culture
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Well, you see, and I simply like things that have something to do with Polish history.

Like you, I prefer regional identities over national, but the region I live in is the cradle of Poland as a nation.

The Netherlands was part of the HRE, so we can say it has something to do with "German" history. But as you noticed, German national identity is an artificial result of all-out teleological and political efforts. Dutch identity emerged spontaneously as a separate identity in opposition to that forged "Pan-German" identity.

Most of national identities exist "in opposition" to others and thus are based on perceived - both stereotypical and real - differences from surrounding nations, rather than on similarities within a given nation.

Also concepts like "civilization" are based on perceived differences from others rather than similarities within. "Western Europe" wants to be called "Western" because they would like to be seen as different than (and existing in opposition to) "Eastern Europe"; not because there are any strong similarities between countries which claim to be within "WE". The concept is artificial, more artificial than Central Europe.

Central Europe is to some extent also an attempt of former Russian / Soviet satelite states to avoid being labelled as "Russia". So it also exists "in opposition" to something. But IMO this CE thing is less artificial than WE thing.

The concept of CE is older than Communism and perhaps also older than the concepts of WE and EE.

national identities, which I find largely an outgrowth of modernist thought and comparatively artificial
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Some of them are more artificial (like German) than some others (like Dutch), though.

National identities are fluent and weaker than regional ones in "transition regions" located in borderlands between nations. On the other hand, they are stronger in more centrally located regions.
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Ethnonym Slovianie (Slavons / Slavs) most likely comes from Proto-Slavic "slovo" (word / speech).

For example "Slovo Boze" = "Word of God".

Thus Slovianie are these "belonging to the people who speak the language".

Deutsch (Germans) comes from Old High German "duitisc" (people).

Thus Deutsch (but also Dutch) are these "belonging to the people".

Deutschland means "land of the people".

Teutons comes from Proto-Indo-European root "*teuta" (people).

Thus Teutons are these "belonging to the people".

Etc., etc.

Names of ethno-linguistic groups are more boring than some people imagine.

=====================

Name "Slavs" perhaps comes from Gothic word "slawan", meaning "to be silent / to not speak".

Polish name for Germans - Niemcy - comes from "niemy", meaning "one who doesn't speak".

=====================

Proto-Slavic word "slava" ("fame", "glory") comes from Sanskrit word "sravah" ("glorious activities" / "famous" / "celebrated"):

http://sanskritdictionary.org/sravah
 
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