The Conquest Training Game

[mabellino]

Looking good! A few thoughts:

Firstly, it is a bit unfortunate that the 40-turn gambit on mathematics didn't pay off, however we know about it fairly early on! Good tech-trading though.

On the 40-turn Gambit: I'm not sure at what point that the science was put to 20%. At 20%, this was 3 beakers / turn. All you need for a 40-turn gambit is 1 beaker / turn, which can be achieved by using a single scientist (even in a far-off corrupt town), or at 10% science. 20% science doesn't actually speed the research, because we're still making less than 1/40 the cost of mathematics / turn, but it was effectively costing 2 excess GPT.

About that science... I checked the advisor just after the 1st settler was built and 10% wasn't enough to do any research so I bumped it up. Guess I forgot to knock it down again once Beijing had grown a bit!

Great thinking using the forest shields for the barracks in shanghai! However, I <thought> that if the square was closer to one city than the other, that the shields actually go to the closest city. Where did they end-up? (I expect the shields from the next forest to go to beijing, even though its being worked by Canton) The barracks in Canton as well means we're ready to get our horseman army ready to kick babylonian butt! Canton may need some plains improved to help it grow to speed-up horse produciton, and shanghai can work around the squares that we need in Beijing for the settler factory.

As far as I am aware forest shields that could go to a choice of cities will always go to the city that is working the tile. In this case I fixed it so that Shanghai would get them. I think the next lot will go to Canton as it is currently working the tile.

I'm not too sure about having the units out-and-about. Good work on keeping the bab settlers at bay, but I'm not sure how the AI treats units running-wild! I know that they take note of total military power, and I know that they often head ofr undefended cities. I don't tend to patrol the wastelands with units, but as long as cities aren't undefended (early game => late game most of mine are undefended), then its probably fine.

I thought keeping our units on the frontiers will help with defense if the AI decides to attack. We won't need to waste turns panicking to get our troops where they're needed. The coast to our south will provide defense for now, but we need to watch out when they get MM.

In beijing, we've almost got the land improved to settler-factory status, which means we should think about getting the population up a bit. With new shields from a forest in one or two turns, then perhaps a horseman would be a better investment? Even if we time a settler to coincide with growth to size 4, it will still drop the pop back to size 2, and we'll need quite a few turns to get up to size again. A barracks is another option, but it wastes shields and we won't get much use out of it!

The new shields will go to Canton (I think... let's ask Sir Pleb or someone like that!). I agree that it will take time for Beijing to grow back up, but I thought since there's hardly any land left, a settler factory has fallen by the wayside a bit. Shame cos I could do with lots of practice in running one!
What about a temple? We need the culture and the happiness bonus will come in handy if we're going for a large city.
Workers will also be needed but for a limited time (join to cities then make loads just before steam power)

Overall, looking good! In summary, I suggest that we focus solely one horsemen in Shanghai & canton, and get the settler factory running.

Good luck!

Thanks! Sorry about the little errors like civil disorder and the min science gambit.

What do you guys think is our next research priority? Lit (40turn gambit?) or max to Poly and hope to sell this high value tech around before they beat us to it?
I also avoided paying for contact with the French, I'm not giving them anything for free after last Sunday! (lol!). We can probably pick it up in another trade or if we're desperate pay for it. Who knows, they might even pay for contact with us themselves!

 

[Berrern]

Guys, you're both wrong about how the Forest-chop shields distribution works.

I seemed to remember a thread detailing this, and after almost an hour of searching, I found it!

Check out this post to see how the Forest chop distribution works
The full thread (Forestry Operations) can be found here.

 

[ainwood]

About that science... I checked the advisor just after the 1st settler was built and 10% wasn't enough to do any research so I bumped it up. Guess I forgot to knock it down again once Beijing had grown a bit!

Micromanagement is a bit of a pain. That's why its often much easier to use a scientist for tech gambits, although we don't really have any citizens to spare at the moment! And even scientists can get stuffed-up when cities riot etc!

As far as I am aware forest shields that could go to a choice of cities will always go to the city that is working the tile. In this case I fixed it so that Shanghai would get them. I think the next lot will go to Canton as it is currently working the tile.

I thought it was the closest city, and went to the working city when there were two equidistant ones. Its good to know the 'actual', without having to test it myself. Nice link, Berrern!

I thought keeping our units on the frontiers will help with defense if the AI decides to attack. We won't need to waste turns panicking to get our troops where they're needed. The coast to our south will provide defense for now, but we need to watch out when they get MM.

It sounds like you've been playing losts of PBEM & Multiplayer!
The AI is very stupid. They probably won't come around the coast if they can come via land, and if they do, it will be with one or two units. Also, the AI attacks cities. I normally keep the units in the outlying cities. The fortification on the hills is good though.

I agree that it will take time for Beijing to grow back up, but I thought since there's hardly any land left, a settler factory has fallen by the wayside a bit. Shame cos I could do with lots of practice in running one!

We are running short on land. However, there is still a lot of room between us and the babs (for at least another 4 - 5 cities). Secondly, it is possible that the bab cities may be autorazed when we capture them, so settlers on-hand is useful.

What about a temple? We need the culture and the happiness bonus will come in handy if we're going for a large city.

Well, if we're going to use beijing as a settler factory, then the happiness isn't crucial yet (We'll have to hook-up the wines pretty-darned-quick).


The key point early-game is to decide on one thing, and stick with it. In this case, the lack of land has made one of the decisions for us: Attack the babs. We don't have iron, we do have horses, so the 'how' decision is made as well. Therefore, the focus has to be on getting our war machine ready.

Re Beijing: Canton and shanghai don't have a lot of growth potential, and neither will Nanking. A horse every 6 to eight turns / city is probably what we'll get. We want to get the babs early, before they run out of land themselves and start building units and thinking about attacking us! For this reason, I think that we need another 4 or so cities between us and the babs. I would still recommend getting the settler factory going.

 

[Mauer]

We are running short on land. However, there is still a lot of room between us and the babs (for at least another 4 - 5 cities). Secondly, it is possible that the bab cities may be autorazed when we capture them, so settlers on-hand is useful.

Well, I'm not really sure where the 4-5 cities will be. I will be up soon and it will probably be up to me to plant at least a city or two, so I better get it right! Ainwood, maybe you or somebody else with CRPRings could open the save with it and show me where you are talking about.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Wow we're really are beng helmed in.

This is the first time I've seen a ICS stratergy played out very exciting stuff.
With so many combat units being built so early.

 

[Mauer]

What is the research plan? Should we maybe shoot for Republic? or should we save our cash and sponge off of the rest? I think maybe we are at too high a difficulty level to get our own techs. At least for a millenia or so. Maybe we should also start thinking of a victory path. I have done spaceship and domination mostly. Not very good at conquest, and horrible at 100K. I would like to maybe try for 100K.

 

[Mauer]

First priority should be the settler factory in Beijing.

As for Shanghai, you don't need defensive units. A warrior is good for keeping any barbs at bay (although by the looks of our terrain, there probably won't be many), and also for happiness control. Get a barracks built there, and we'll start on some horsemen. Ditto for the other cities.

How can you tell by the terrain where the barbs will be? I have seen barb encampments on just about all types of terrain. I think

 

[Berrern]

I agree with your point abuot the Settler Factory, ainwood. Let's keep it running until we've wiped out the Babylonians

As for the roster, it now looks like this (I removed spleen, due to him going awol):
1 Mauer on deck
2 Detlef
3 FriendlyFire
4 mabellino just played
5 Berrern up now

As for research; how about beelining towards Construction or Monarchy? I normally always do this, and get the final tier tech before the AI (as they normally go towards Map Making and Republic). I reckon Construction will be most viable for our situation, seeing as we're researching Mathematics.

I'll play my turns tonight

 

[Detlef Richter]

How can you tell by the terrain where the barbs will be? I have seen barb encampments on just about all types of terrain. I think

Barb camps are build in foggy lands, so Babylon is used as shield against Barbs.

 

[Detlef Richter]

As for research; how about beelining towards Construction or Monarchy? I normally always do this, and get the final tier tech before the AI (as they normally go towards Map Making and Republic). I reckon Construction will be most viable for our situation, seeing as we're researching Mathematics.

I normally went directly to Monarchy but i don't know if it's best.

 

[ainwood]

Well, aiming for a govt change is a good option. I'll post more on that later (have got some 'real life' stuff to do today

Re barbs: I simply meant that because we are hemmed-in, there is not much free-land for barbs to pop-up on.

 

[FriendlyFire]

I normally went directly to Monarchy but i don't know if it's best

same here.

rubs hand in anticipation of impending war.
Blame AI in advance of cheating at combat ..

heeee

 

[Mauer]

Well, it doesn't look like we are going to be done before SGOTM 3. Maybe we can all get together on 4 or something. I think maybe everybody is playing all the games at once I don't think I am gonna submit Gotm 32 (Aztecs) It is going extremely horrible. Anyways so are we decided on monarchy? I think if the Babylonians are left alone for too long they will get it after Poly. I still don't think were gonna out research any of the other civs, maybe we should just save our cash and buy techs or get them as plunder. Do you agree or disagree and why?

 

[mabellino]

Monarchy is good if we're planning war (which we are!) as it lets us get out of stinking despo without crippling us with unit costs!
The Babs will almost certainly go for monarchy before Republic (at least they usually do when I play them) cos they love to build wonders! The Hanging Gardens of Babylon anyone? Death Kill Destroy!

@Mauer
I haven't even started GOTM32 yet cos we're at a critical point in SGOTM2, it's now just me and I.Larkin on Team Ankka so if anyone wants to come and see how we're doing, and who knows, maybe chip in with advice here and there (non spoiler related of course! I'm meaning more like the forestry operations discussed earlier!)

 

[Mauer]

It has taken us 1 month and 4 days to get to the year 1675 BC

 

[ainwood]

It has taken us 1 month and 4 days to get to the year 1675 BC

Are we that far through?

I think there is general frustration at the lack of progress being made here. Can people give a general indication as to whether they want to continue or not? I do!

But if we do continue, it has to be done differently => we need to be more organised, and I think we've been a bit bogged-down in the detail. We need to just get on with the game, and analyse it in parallel with what we are doing. If we make a mistake, then so be it! The important thing is to recognise it, and move on! Its about learning, not about trying to play the perfect game! (I actually think that a good lesson is that even if you make a lot of mistakes, you can still win confortably).

I think that we should try and play a minimum of two sessions of 10 turns a week, hopefully three. We use the roster posted above, and give people 48 hours to complete their turns. If you can't play (for whatever reason), then say so, and I can play or the player can be skipped, or we can perhaps get one of the GOTM staff to fill in.

Thoughts?

 

[mabellino]

I'm still interested! I've been playing civ3 since xmas 2001 and have learnt more from the two SG's I'm involved in than any of the SP games I've played.
I think the slowness could be attributed to nervousness on our (the trainees) part not to mess up in public! I for one am very conscious of cocking up this game in the same way I usually cock up my GOTM's!

I've been thinking a lot recently about several smaller "scenario" type succession games eg "opening moves", "trading" (like Moonsinger's exercise) and "a successful war". I don't know about anyone else, but I find some of the experts' game plans and spoiler discussions a little too complicated without a save file or indepth knowledge of the game in question. Perhaps a smaller exercise will prompt people to actually play along rather than sit and shiver on the sidelines

 

[Detlef Richter]

I think we should not kill this Training-Game. This "short" time helps me a lot and it seams that i can finish GOTM32 with dom or conquest victory. (My first GOTM win ) If we proceed it more organized we can go on faster (Look what Ainwood sayed.) We should not discuss it down. It's ok to find a agreement on Mayor points and the other things could be managed by each player. Ainwood or anywone else from the staff or the master players can train us after each turn about goods and bads.

@ our game: looks that we have an agreement on monarchy and an early war against Babylon. I think we should build 4 inner ring citys with barracks for our unit support. And we should build only offensive units. Can someone tells me if we have iron or horses connected? If yes we should build only such units. If not we should build warriors, warriors and warriors for later upgrades.
At the moment we have reached 10 units, we can move them to the Babylon border, declare war and capture their citys so we don't have to build our owne.

@Berrern: how does it work??

 

[Mauer]

@ our game: looks that we have an agreement on monarchy and an early war against Babylon. I think we should build 4 inner ring citys with barracks for our unit support. And we should build only offensive units. Can someone tells me if we have iron or horses connected? If yes we should build only such units. If not we should build warriors, warriors and warriors for later upgrades.
At the moment we have reached 10 units, we can move them to the Babylon border, declare war and capture their citys so we don't have to build our owne.

@Berrern: how does it work??

Sounds good! Monarchy war with Babylon. We have ten units you say. Wonder what the military advisor has to say about Babylons strength. Correct me if I'm wrong but we have 3 cities. and a settler on the move? Beijing is building settlers now right? The other two should be nothing but attack units. We have horses and I think earlier discussion was that we would start on a horsey strike force. I think we should move quick. Maybe see if we can get another trade out of Babylon (i.e. techs cash whatever) and declare war.

Now about Berrern, nothing against you man, but we got to get this thing rolling. If you haven't posted by this time tomorrow I will play the next ten turns. Comments and or suggestions?

 

[Berrern]

I'm terribly sorry guys, but work has taken most of my time.. It's so much to do now in late June, I often work 14-hour days

Anyway, skip my turn for now - go right ahead and play Mauer! I'll stick to giving comments for now, and play the next turn I'm up! Work should cool off after this week so I'll have more time!