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The Contrast Photojournals II: The Celts - new players welcome!

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by CrabHelmet, Sep 21, 2018.

  1. CrabHelmet

    CrabHelmet Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    590

    Hello all, and welcome to the second edition of the Contrast Photojournals!

    One of the best possible ways to improve one's play is to learn by contrast. When somebody plays by themselves, and makes a decision, often it isn't necessarily obvious why that decision ended up being good or bad, since you never see what happens after all of the decisions you didn't make. However, if you get to see both decisions playing out, and the end result of each, it helps you understand which decisions are good to make and when. This idea has sparked the launch of the Contrast Photojournals.

    In the Contrast Photojournals, for each edition, I will take suggestions as to a particular theme - maybe people want to improve their diplomatic play, or try out very early warmongering - and choose a Civ and map-type that accomodates that theme. I will generate a new savegame, and upload it here. Everyone who wants to participate can download the savegame, and play a portion of 90 turns or so, a nice little bite-sized chunk of the game. While doing so, they ought to keep a photojournal, detailing why they made or did not make particular important decisons.

    At the end, players upload their saves and photojournals, and we can provide critiques for each other - what we thought people did well, and what we thought they did badly. To keep the games close and decisions comparable, at the end of each 90 turns, players upload their saves, and we will all pick one to continue together. This also means that, even if you normally play at a lower difficulty, you can try brief periods of a higher difficulty such as Immortal with a safety net to fall back on. Potentially later on, we can try the reverse - give experienced players a newer player's save, so people can see how to 'rescue' a tough situation.

    For the second edition, our nation is (drum roll please...) the Celts, bearers of Iron and Faith! The goal here is to practice military decision-making... and a second skill which will not be immediately clear. The title of this second edition gives a clue!

    !! Mod version used is the 9/19 Vox Populi with EUI (not 43-Civ version) !!
    !! Please let me know if you have any incompatibility problems !!

    Spoiler Game Settings :

    Civilization: The Celts
    Difficulty: Immortal
    Map Type: Fractal
    Map Size: Standard (8 Civilizations, 16 City-States)
    No Events
    No Ancient Ruins
    Research Agreements Disabled


    If you reach a Religion before turn 90, save and submit your save then, before you make any Religious choices.

    F.AQ.
    Q1. I don't normally play at Immortal - will I be able to participate?
    A1. Yes, and it would be really good if you did! Because we converge back to the same save after 90 turns, if you dig yourself into a hole, that's okay! One of the best ways to learn is to jump into the deep end, and now other people are here to fish you out afterwards as well.

    Q2. How does the deadline work?
    A2. We will choose between saves for each period of 90 turns every Friday at 23:00 GMT, which in practice means you need to have entered your save a few hours before then.

    Q3. Where will each new round be?
    A3. All new rounds for the same edition will be in the same thread - so don't expect a new thread per round for this Celtic playthrough; all saves will be here.

    Subscribers
    If you want to be updated each time a new save or edition is released, let me know, and I can ping you using your username. Presently, I will ping anyone who has participated in the past, so just let me know if you're done.

    @void_genesis
    @Tzar Sasha
    @tu_79
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 21, 2018
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  2. tu_79

    tu_79 Warlord

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    Location:
    Malaga (Spain)
    I had to look what the heck this saying means. Excited to try this out. My only fear is that I'm not used to the last beta changes, especially enhancers.
     
  3. CrabHelmet

    CrabHelmet Chieftain

    Joined:
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    590
    Cenedl heb iaith yw cenedl heb galon. ;)
     
  4. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Chieftain

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    I'm interested in trying but I can't find the 9/19 VP. I only see the 9/15 VP. Am I missing something? Thanks!
     
  5. Tzar Sasha

    Tzar Sasha Tzar of Nowheresville

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Messages:
    440
    Location:
    The Frozen Tundra
    I believe it is the 9/15 with the hotfixes added in. Last one I think was on the 19th if I am not mistaken. If it is not, @CrabHelmet needs to get us the exact link.

    EDIT: Just double checked, it is a hotfix in the 9-15 thread. It is, however, called 9-19.
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...ptember-15th-9-15.636440/page-5#post-15221724
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
    amateurgamer88 likes this.
  6. tu_79

    tu_79 Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    5,182
    Location:
    Malaga (Spain)
    Spoiler Celts found first :

    I move my settler over the sugar tile, since the improvement is not that great.

    From what I gather, I'm in a small continent with just one city state. With a single pictish warrior I defended against a massive barbarian wave against the capital, giving enough faith to start the pantheon. Suspecting I was isolated in a small continent (we were asking for this), and I can't abuse early combat or bully a few city states, I went Progress. Celts thrive in settling fast (+3 faith per city). I took a detour to Bronze Working in order to achieve the dye monopoly, which I'm getting in some turns. With most my potential cities being coastal (the settled and the conquered ones), I chose Mannanan. This pantheon does not scale very well, but makes all coastal cities start nicely with free food, production and gold. And I need a nice start if I'm alone.

    I held my army (of 2 pictish warriors) just for cleaning barbarian camps when I needed to settle, farming those brutes for some faith meanwhile.

    I stopped at turn 85, when the first great prophet is born, so you can choose yourself the founder belief.

    My stats, for comparison:

    19 people, 5 cities, 0 wonders. 7 techs, 3 progress.
    Yields: +10 :c5science:, +18:c5culture:, +24:c5faith:, 4 :c5unhappy:, 56(+14):c5gold:, :c5capital:(+3:c5food:, +2:c5science:, +3:c5culture:), :c5war:(5/12)

    Religion: +3:c5citizen:, +3:c5production:, +4:c5gold: in coastal cities. +2 Great Admiral points in Ceilidh Hall.
    Celts turn 85.jpg

     

    Attached Files:

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  7. CrabHelmet

    CrabHelmet Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Interesting. Our Austrias had very similar openings, we've played our Celts very, very differently to one another, with totally different outcomes.

    EDIT: I'd recommend nobody reads anyone else's playthrough until they've done their own, since there's lots of... "spoilers". It makes it much more interesting played blind!
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
  8. CrabHelmet

    CrabHelmet Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    590
    Spoiler :
    You can find my photojournal here. Let me know if the format is readable and if you want less/more pictures.

    My stats, for comparison:

    17 people, 3 cities, 1 wonder (Great Lighthouse), 11 techs, 4 progress.
    Yields: +23 :c5science:, +11:c5culture:, +19:c5faith:, 0:c5happy:, 43(+7):c5gold:, :c5capital:(+9.42:c5food:, +20.38:c5science:, +6:c5culture:)
    Military: :c5war:(4/8), 2 Pictish Warriors, 1 Warrior, 1 Pathfinder

    Pantheon: Ogma, the Learned (+1:c5science: per 3:c5citizen: in a City. +3:c5science: +3:c5culture: +3 Great Scientist Points in the capital).

    Eidyn (7:c5citizen:)
    - Market
    - Palace
    - Council
    - Granary
    - Monument
    - Shrine
    - Well

    Dulyn (6:c5citizen:)
    - Great Lighthouse
    - Granary
    - Monument
    - Shrine
    - Well

    Caerdydd (4:c5citizen:)
    - Monument
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
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  9. CrabHelmet

    CrabHelmet Chieftain

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    @tu_79
    Spoiler :
    Very different play! You went immediately wide, I played an initially tall Progress (although I've just reached the point where I feel comfortable in going very wide). I think this is the first time I have ever out-tech'd you without City-state quests making the difference. :p I did consider Mannanan, but I disagree with your logicin the end, I think. Isolation doesn't need to burst out of the gates immediately because, well, there's no threats to need to be ready for. You can take your time and build something that picks up momentum later on. I'm surprised you left it until Truro to settle Mt. Kailash - you could have Religion a good 10 turns back if not more given how wide you played. I am very surprised at how different our City placement is, in the Austria one we picked about the same places, a few tiles off either way, here we have had totally different priorities.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
  10. tu_79

    tu_79 Warlord

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    Location:
    Malaga (Spain)
    Spoiler Commentary to CrabH savegame :

    I was tempted by Ogma too, but I didn't even try to build the Great Lighthouse. I didn't think this was posible in Immortal. In my game there's still some turns since I can build trirremes, and I don't have that wonder, so if we are truly isolated, my savegame is in more trouble.

    You must have killed a few more barbs than me if you were able to found in exactly the same turn with that many fewer cities. (Nevermind, I see that you relied on Mt Kalash, no surprise, I didn't revealed that part of the map in time).

    Anyways, I'm already connecting cities and a few turns to monopoly, I don't think we are in very different situation, except for the fact that you are ready to sail over an ocean rift if need be.

    My logic behind Mannanan was to settle fast for benefitting that extra faith in every city asap, without falling too behind due to the number of cities. Now, my cities are more or less well developed and I can rely on scholasticism for faster research.
     
  11. CrabHelmet

    CrabHelmet Chieftain

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    Messages:
    590
    Spoiler :
    My personal view is that the Great Lighthouse is a lifesaver on isolated starts. Sometimes it can be the difference between finding other Civs on Compass vs finding them in early Medieval. Even if there's no rifts it helps, when you do make Compass, you at least find other people easier, and can defend your island more easily against everyone else, who will inevitably be many techs ahead.

    Taking Ogma was absolutely essential to getting it, because a) I teched to Sailing so fast, and b) I could then double back and clear early techs really fast for cheap and easy Culture. Even then, I agree I was cutting it fine - I've seen Immortal AI take the Great Lighthous from turn 76, so I was definitely taking a gamble.

    I did the same as you and left barbarian camps alone for a long time to farm them for Faith, which definitely helped on founding.

    You are much further in getting your monopoly up, for sure. I would conservatively say that I am 20 turns away still. That said, not entirely sure I mind too much - I don't rate Dyes, it's just gold. I am also starting a road, which will lead to Dulyn, which has a lighthouse, so I can connect all newly settled Cities now quite easily.

    I think our play will probably converge over the next few turns, since my next plan would be to send out a lot of Settlers, and yours is probably to slow down and do infrastructure.
     
  12. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Chieftain

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    Spoiler The Amateur's Attempt :

    Well, we'll see how this goes since I'm still a relative amateur and haven't played much with the VP versions with distress included. This is gonna be a rough ride (and a good learning experience).

    I chose to settle on the forested hill as I don't like the other locations too much. I have considered settling on the sugar or dye but decided against it. Personally, I just like having the capital on a hill. Afterwards, I just made a number of mistakes like being indecisive of what to tech. I know I need Fishing to embark but I also need bronze working to connect my luxuries. My techs are all over the place and lots of things like connecting luxuries and embarking are delayed quite a bit.

    Being inexperienced with the recent patch, I also didn't realize how badly I would hurt from happiness. Makes me wonder if I went for trade just way too late. Overall, it was a good learning game. I also picked Authority because I wasn't sure how many cities I'll be able to settle outside of this continent of ours and I was under the impression that you want to go fairly wide to take advantage of progress itself. I did leave one barbarian encampment so I can farm science, culture and faith from it. Don't know if it'll be worth it but, given that I won't be settling anytime soon with all the unhappiness I have, I can leave it and just let it give me some benefits.

    For pantheon, I picked Mannanan. I know it doesn't scale great into late game but it can give new cities such a big boost. Its benefits, with Authority, gives my city quite a production boost and allows my cities to develop their infrastructure relatively quickly early game. With the help of Mt. Kailash, I've found my religion at turn 76.

    20180922082424_1.jpg

    My stats:

    18 people, 5 cities, 0 wonder, 7 techs, 3 Authority.
    Yields: +11 :c5science:, +9:c5culture:, +26:c5faith:, 7 :c5unhappy:, 40(+10):c5gold:, :c5capital:(+2.79:c5food:, +8.36:c5science:, +3:c5culture:)
    Military: :c5war:(4/13), 3 Pictish Warriors, 1 Pathfinder

    Pantheon: Mannanan, Son of the Sea (+3:c5food:,+3:c5production: and +4:c5gold: in coastal cities. +2 Great Admiral Points from Ceilidh Hall).

    Edinburgh (4:c5citizen:)
    - Palace
    - Council
    - Granary
    - Monument
    - Shrine

    Dublin (5:c5citizen:)
    - Monument
    - Shrine
    - Council
    - Well

    Cardiff (4:c5citizen:)
    - Council
    - Monument
    - Shrine
    - Well

    Truro (4:c5citizen:)
    - Council
    - Monument
    - Well

    Nantes (1:c5citizen:)
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 29, 2018
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  13. Tzar Sasha

    Tzar Sasha Tzar of Nowheresville

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    The Frozen Tundra
    Spoiler Here we go... :

    Contrast journal - The Celts part 1

    Turn 0
    Initial thoughts without moving any units. Only one dye and one sugar within view and from the starting point they are both in the 2nd ring. This is actually okay as it takes a bit of time to get to Calendar to improve them. They are both on forest so bronze working will be needed as well. Having plenty of grassland tiles to farm and some hills for production, this is a good spot. I'd love to know if there was coast nearby but doesn't look like there would be, at least not for the capital to make use of. I do see a tundra hill to the south, so we are on the southern portion of the map. Not sure what the second challenge thing mentioned might be. I'm wondering if we are isolated... At any rate, I believe I will found on the spot and go with it.

    Lock citizen on the forested hill, it provides 1 food & 2 hammers. Yes it reduces growth from 5 turns to 8 turns but changes monument production from 17 turns to 11. Sacrifice 3 turns to save 6, I think that is good.

    I know I want my UU sooner rather than later so that it may be of use much quicker. I'm just going to go ahead and get that out of the way. Mining for 11 turns

    Turn 8
    Edinburgh pop 2, locked new citizen on a grassland tile. growth in 13, 3 turns left on Monument, 3 turns left on Mining. Barbarians have been spotted and pathfinder has been attacked already. Have found a source of crab, it would be in the 5th ring of Edinburgh. As long as I have a coastal city to send a work boat, I don't think I'll need to settle to grab it. I did find another dye near some desert. Not sure if I want to try for Petra. Really don't want to over do it with trying for wonders. Think I may just work on infrastructure / defense and possibly offense. I can always get wonders from conquest if necessary.

    Turn 11
    Mining finished, researching Pottery for 10 turns
    Monument finished, building Pictish Warrior for 10 turns
    next growth in 10 turns
    The grassland tile I had locked in on turns out to be a stone tile, now have another hammer
    Spoiler :


    Turn 12
    That is a bummer, pathfinder was killed. I have got to remember to move it only one tile then look before moving the next. I had moved it the full two tiles and it landed next to a barb camp. No more scouting till the Pictish Warrior is done.

    Turn 16
    Three barbarians now on my unprotected city. 5 turns till Pictish Warrior is built. Wonder if I can hold them off with just the city bombardment

    Turn 21
    Pictish Warrior built, one barbarian was killed in its attack on the city a turn earlier.
    Pictish Warrior kills off one unit, 14 faith.
    Building Shrine paid down 80 gold to make it 5 turns.

    Turn 22
    Pottery finished, researching The Wheel in order to improve research times with the Council.

    Turn 26
    Shrine finished, building another Pictish Warrior.
    Policy: Opened Authority
    I might as well get some culture from killing these barbarians...

    Turn 28
    Between a few kills with the Pictish Warrior and a couple turns with the Shrine, I now get to choose a pantheon (first pantheon of the game). The Celts get their own set of pantheon beliefs that no one else can benefit from. But what of these can we benefit from?

    The downside to my selection is that with the death of my pathfinder, not much territory has been explored. I have forests which do make Cernunnos, the Horned Stag a viable choice. I do like that one, it makes the forest extremely viable and productive. There is no dirt specific pantheon such as plantations or mine etcs. But there is Rhiannon, Goddess of Sovereignty. It provides +2 culture to each city and every improved resource gains +1 gold an +1 production as well as +5 golden age points from the Ceilidh Hall.

    Almost any of them could be useful...
    I think I will go with Bran, the Sleeping Guardian. Why? It gives +100 to ranged combat strength which will help once I get ranged units. It provides 25% growth as well as +8 culture when a citizen is born. This may be the "tall" pantheon but I feel it will have benefit here. Especially, since I may not get many settlers out until these barbarians are dealt with.

    Turn 32
    Continuing to kill barbs as they approach the city. 3 turns left on building the second Pictish Warrior. Then I can start to take the fight to them. Finished researching The Wheel going with Trapping, get those Archers on line to give support to the Pictish Warriors.

    Turn 35
    Pictish Warrior built and heading to closest barb camp. Building Council for 7 turns. Then I got to get a new pathfinder out.

    Turn 38
    Policy: Dominance

    Turn 41
    Trapping finished, researching Animal Husbandry

    Turn 46
    Pathfinder finished, just found Mt Kalesh with a Pictish Warrior. Building a settler to claim it. 6 faith a turn when worked, you better believe I am grabbing it.

    Turn 48
    Animal Husbandry finished, researching Fishing in order to improve where my new pathfinder can go. I put it on auto-explore. I cannot be arsed to control it right now.

    Turn 50
    Probably a bit late compared to others, finally met Colombo. They gave me 50 gold for being the first. Definitely isolated if no one found them by now.

    Turn 52
    Policy: Tribute

    Turn 55
    Settler finished, sending it towards Mt Kalesh. Building a granary and bought a worker.

    Turn 58
    Dublin founded, Mt Kalesh tile purchased, building shrine.
    Spoiler :


    Turn 60
    Building a Settler in Edinburgh
    Researching Bronze Working now that Fishing is complete. I need both Bronze Working and Calendar to improve these luxuries. Might as well see if there is any iron first. I plan to place this settler north of Dublin and east of Edinburgh to claim two horse tiles and a marble that will be in its 3rd but out of reach of Dublin.

    Right now if something does not change, it looks like a great prophet at turn 94. Not bad but it should have been sooner.

    Turn 67
    Settler finished and taking it to the locale I mentioned with a Pictish Warrior escort. Farming in Edinburgh as I do not have the GPT to safely do another unit at this time nor are there any buildings available to build.

    Turn 71
    Cardiff founded. Building a Shrine
    Spoiler :


    Turn 74
    Shrine finished in Dublin, building work boat followed by a Monument
    I can improve whales in 8 turns and help out my happiness which has dropped to 1
    Looking at turn 88 now for a great prophet.

    Turn 75
    Bronze Working finished, Research Calendar
    Iron found in Edinburgh's 3rd ring. It will be the next grab in 40 some turns. There is also Iron in Dublin's 3rd ring. No idea when it will expand that way.

    Starting to think, I picked a poor pantheon. Sometimes a steady rate is better than bursts at certain events.

    Turn 76
    Antananarivo discovered on another land mass. They also have a barbarian nearby. Too bad, my two Pictish Warriors are heading to a new camp that spawned not far from Colombo. Colombo also has a quest to clear it so yay.

    Turn 78
    Switched Edinburgh from farming to building a new worker.

    Turn 80
    Cleared the barb camp for Colombo, heading one Pictish Warrior to deal with the barb camp for Antananarivo. The other is returning to Edinburgh

    Turn 81
    My happiness went negative with the growth of Dublin.
    Shrine finished in Cardiff, building Monument.
    5 turns till great prophet at turn 86. Can not get any closer unless that one Pictish Warrior makes it to that barb camp in time. However, that was going to take at least 5 or 6 turns just to get there. So no, turn 86 for GP looks like it.

    Turn 82
    Work boat finished in Dublin and Monument started. Whales connected but it wasn't enough to offset the unhappiness. Now at 2 unhappiness due to Edinburgh growth. 5 turns from finishing Calendar and 2 turns from finishing the second worker in Edinburgh. I'll just let it sit on a lux tile till the research is complete. The other worker is improving horse over in Cardiff.

    Turn 83
    Met Yerevan. Buddhism founded by another civ in between turns.

    Turn 86
    Great Prophet born in Dublin
    Everything left untouched and ready to continue
    Spoiler :


    Thoughts:
    With better pathfinder movement I might have been able to have kept the first one alive. That may have allowed me to find Mt Kalesh sooner and settle there sooner as well. However, I really doubt it. To have the faith for kills, I needed the Pictish Warrior and those cost almost twice what a regular warrior costs. I could have pumped out plain warriors to deal with the barbarians and settle to grab Mt Kalesh much sooner. That would have pushed the pantheon founding back but perhaps brought the religion finding sooner. Should have gone that route instead since the Celtic pantheons are unique and cannot be used by anyone else.

    Plus, these barbarians are way too ragging than what I am used to. I usually do ragging barbarians with the chill barbarians option.

    I could have also picked a different pantheon. I never did get archers built to take advantage of the ranged bonus. I'm sure it will help out later but certainly didn't in the immediate. And having to rely on kills only for culture is not a good thing. Never did get the policy which gives a free settler. It is way too late to be having only 3 cities unless planning to go tall or there is a neighbor already crowding the area. I'm sure it is survivable, just not ideal.


    EDIT: Forgot to include save file, it is now attached.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
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  14. Tzar Sasha

    Tzar Sasha Tzar of Nowheresville

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Messages:
    440
    Location:
    The Frozen Tundra
    Spoiler After reading everyone else's... :
    I feel that I really screwed it up. Definitely could have done a better policy selection than what I did. However, most of us hit the great prophet pretty much about the same time despite going totally different routes. And while amateurgamer88 feels that his game is off as well, they did get the great prophet ten turns earlier just as CrabHelmet said tu_79 would had he settled to work Mt Kalesh sooner rather than later.

    Obviously not going with my save...
     
  15. CrabHelmet

    CrabHelmet Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2017
    Messages:
    590
    Spoiler :
    I wouldn't worry, @Tzar Sasha. You unfortunately made one of those "tiny mistakes with big consequences" when your Pathfinder was killed early, since that lost you an awful lot of defence and stopped you finding what the others found, and made you waste production building another one later on, which knocked everything out of synch, and meant your capital got hammered early on by barb raids. I wouldn't judge yourself too harshly, there's no way to have foreseen it would have had that much impact and it is a really easy mistake to make, I've often accidentally moved a Pathfinder two moves instead of one when I wasn't concentrating, and I'm just glad it wasn't me that did it here!

    Outside of that, I thought your play was pretty good. I think this start can definitely be worked into an Authority start (although you have to pick the right Pantheon, I think Nuada or Rhiannon is basically compulsory if you want to go Authority here, you need a secondary source of culture). You picked the right techs given you had much less information than everyone else due to your Pathfinder getting lost. I think probably the focus on Shrines was a mistake, since if you had swapped Shrines for Pictish Warriors, you'd have kept the same amount of Faith in the short-run and been able to batter the barbs back a bit. Your Pantheon was probably not ideal - if you went Mannanan and are isolated, you need a source of Science, which means you need to have taken Progress, or alternatively you need to have a nearby Military City-state to extort Science from. Authority and Mannanan are a bad overlap for isolation, you end up with Science and Culture problems.

    Regardless, you still hit your Great Prophet at the same time as myself and tu_79, despite having a much harder start of it, by far. That is no bad achievement, at all.
     
  16. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Chieftain

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    Spoiler :
    I could've gotten my religion even earlier if I knew about Mt. Kalesh. I had to defend my capital from barbarians with pathfinder so it was delayed. I settled Dublin first so things can be rather interesting if I knew about the natural wonder sooner. My pantheon did allow me to work Mt. Kalesh with my first citizen since I get the extra food. Overall, I'm not too happy since I know lots of things could be improved.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
  17. CrabHelmet

    CrabHelmet Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    590
    Spoiler :
    @amateurgamer88 - if this were Pangaea, I would go so far as to say you've basically already won. Your Production is absolutely enormous at such an early stage, goodness me! And the religion so early! On Pangaea, if you took Diligence now, that's it. Nothing can stop you. Clean sweap.

    Unfortunately, we're isolated, and as it stands, I think your strategy is a bit at odds with your environment. Now you have all this Production... but there's nothing to leverage it for. Nobody to war. At best you can take that City-state, but that will take you all of a few turns with what you can do, then your Production is... sat around not doing much.

    In order to get your Production to do what you want, you need to tech, since you need to be able to get across the watery blues. In the mean-time, you are really going to struggle for Culture, since you have nothing to kill for your Policy to do its work, and your Pantheon doesn't present culture.

    Now, because you've hit Religion so early, things are definitely workable. You can take Scholarship, beeline Libraries, and you're out. The question facing you is really a blind guess: will I have enough Production to make up for my Science lag by the time I do get out? Because if you're not careful, you'll reach that point where you have tonnes of Production, but it is all running into inferior units.

    I think your save is either the best or the third best, but it depends on factors beyond our knowledge at the moment. If we're stuck until Compass, I think my save is probably in the best position, and then tu_79's. If we only need a bit of Trireme work, then your save is the best, I think. However, there's the question of risk. tu_79 and myself can transition into Production easily enough if we can find someone at Triremes, we have that flexibility. Yours is really all-or-nothing, because if you're stuck on that island for a long time, your early advantage will run out and you're stuck.
     
  18. CrabHelmet

    CrabHelmet Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2017
    Messages:
    590
    On a different note, it's really exciting to see that everyone played such different strategies this time! Nobody picked the same Pantheon/Policy combination, we have equal numbers of Tall and Wide attempts, highly varied city placement (although both tall players were similar, which is interesting), opposing tech priorities. It's honestly surprising that three of us ended with such similar Religion timing considering how varied everything else was. I do hope we get even more people, this map feels really interesting. :D Good job, team!
     
  19. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2018
    Messages:
    125
    Gender:
    Male
    Spoiler :

    @CrabHelmet I do agree that my save is really risky as we know too little at the moment. It lacks flexibility so I do think your save is the best option. There are certain things I could've optimized to improve the situation but, at the current stage, we are indeed stuck with an all-or-nothing situation. I think my save is a nice challenge to see how things will develop but, for the best odds of winning, your save is the most ideal. :)
     
  20. 76ers

    76ers Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2016
    Messages:
    28
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Took a shot at it. Played it last night wrote it up today.
    Spoiler :
    Moved onto the hill with the first with settler. I didn't get to scout as fast as I would like as I was forced to defend my capital with the pathfinder around turn 12. So I didn't have the full grasp of the situation I was in when I picked my social policy. Used city state bullying to try and make up for it. I actually think my situation is okay once happiness is brought under control with the next social policy. Just need to rush universities most likely. I didn't get first religion since my prophet was moving to the capital. I tried not working the wonder on the turn before it was set to spawn but it still spawned in Dublin. 4 workers are getting dye online and already have 1 dye, 1 sugar and whales. The 4 workers getting dyes online will be enough for the monopoly. Plus it will be nice to work the extra culture.

    32 people, 7 cities, 0 wonders. 9 techs, 3 Authority
    Yields: +14 :c5science:, +15:c5culture:, +34:c5faith:, 9 :c5unhappy:, 22(+19):c5gold:, :c5capital:(+8.19:c5food:, +9.04:c5science:, +5:c5culture:), :c5war:(5/17)
    4 Pictish Warriors, I pathfinder, 5 workers

    Religion: +3:c5citizen:, +3:c5production:, +4:c5gold: in coastal cities. +2 Great Admiral points in Ceilidh Hall.

    Edinburgh 6:c5citizen: Council, Monument, Shrine, Well
    Dublin 4:c5citizen: Council, Monument, Shrine, Well
    Cardiff 5:c5citizen: Council, Granary, Monument, Shrine
    Truro 6:c5citizen: Council, Monument, Shrine
    Nantes 5:c5citizen: Council, Monument, Shrine, Well
    Douglas 4:c5citizen: Council
    Glasgow 2:c5citizen: 1 turn from counil




     

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