The "Could Have Been" Empire Challenge

The Number Pi

Irrational Number
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Jan 29, 2010
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Imagine that you have a time/space machine. With your modern knowledge you go back in time to a past nation, and get to speak with a ruler. What you tell them could completely change history. From telling the Roman Varus "Don't trust Arminius" to telling the Persians how to defeat the Greeks at Marathon to assassinating Ghengis Khan, a single changed event would alter history dramatically.

Your mission, should you choose to accept, is to create an empire that, had history gone slightly differently, could have been. This is different from an AnotherPacifist-style conquest or domination; there should be set objectives to be accomplished at different times, like UHV's. Any difficulty is allowed.

Colonial China:

Reason:

Spoiler :
From Wikapedia:

Between 1405 and 1433, the Ming government sponsored a series of seven naval expeditions. Emperor Yongle designed them to establish a Chinese presence, impose imperial control over trade, and impress foreign peoples in the Indian Ocean basin. He also might have wanted to extend the tributary system.

Zheng He was placed as the admiral in control of the huge fleet and armed forces that undertook these expeditions. Zheng He's first voyage consisted of a fleet of 317 treasure ships[11][12][13] (other sources say 200 ships) holding almost 28,000 crewmen (each ship housing up to 500 men).[11]


One of a set of maps of Zheng He's missions (郑和航海图), also known as the Mao Kun maps, 1628.Zheng He's fleets visited Arabia, East Africa, India, Malay Archipelago and Thailand (at the time called Siam), dispensing and receiving goods along the way.[13] Zheng He presented gifts of gold, silver, porcelain and silk; in return, China received such novelties as ostriches, zebras, camels, ivory and giraffes.[13][14][15]

Zheng He generally sought to attain his goals through diplomacy, and his large army awed most would-be enemies into submission. But a contemporary reported that Zheng He "walked like a tiger" and did not shrink from violence when he considered it necessary to impress foreign peoples with China's military might. He ruthlessly suppressed pirates who had long plagued Chinese and southeast Asian waters. He also waged a land war against the Kingdom of Kotte in Ceylon, and he made displays of military force when local officials threatened his fleet in Arabia and East Africa. From his fourth voyage, he brought envoys from thirty states who traveled to China and paid their respects at the Ming court.

In 1424, the Yongle Emperor died. His successor, the Hongxi Emperor (reigned 1424–1425), decided to stop the voyages during his short reign. Zheng He made one more voyage under the Xuande Emperor (reigned 1426–1435), but after that the voyages of the Chinese treasure ship fleets were ended. Zheng He died during the treasure fleet's last voyage. Although he has a tomb in China, it is empty: he was, like many great admirals, buried at sea.[16]

Traditional and popular accounts of Zheng He's voyages have described a great fleet of gigantic ships, far larger than any other wooden ships in history. Most modern scholars consider these descriptions to be exaggerated.

Chinese records[citation needed] assert that Zheng He's fleet sailed as far as East Africa. According to ancient Chinese sources[citation needed], Zheng He commanded seven expeditions. The 1405 expedition consisted of 27,800 men and a fleet of 62 treasure ships supported by approximately 190 smaller ships.[22][23] The fleet included:

Treasure ships (Chinese:宝船), used by the commander of the fleet and his deputies (nine-masted, about 126.73 metres (416 ft) long and 51.84 metres (170 ft) wide), according to later writers[citation needed]. This is more or less the size and shape of a football field. The treasure ships purportedly could carry as much as 1,500 tons. 1[24][25] By way of comparison, a modern ship of about 1,200 tons is 60 meters (200 ft) long,[26] and the ships Christopher Columbus sailed to the New World in 1492 were about 70-100 tons and 17 meters (55 ft) long.[27]
Equine ships (Chinese:馬船), carrying horses and tribute goods and repair material for the fleet (eight-masted, about 103 m (339 ft) long and 42 m (138 ft) wide).[24]
Supply ships (Chinese:粮船), containing staple for the crew (seven-masted, about 78 m (257 ft) long and 35 m (115 ft) wide).[24]
Troop transports (Chinese:兵船), six-masted, about 67 m (220 ft) long and 25 m (83 ft) wide.[24]
Fuchuan warships (Chinese:福船), five-masted, about 50 m (165 ft) long.[24]
Patrol boats (Chinese:坐船), eight-oared, about 37 m (120 ft) long.[24]
Water tankers (Chinese:水船), with 1 month's supply of fresh water.[24]
Six more expeditions took place, from 1407 to 1433, with fleets of comparable size.[28]

If the accounts can be taken as factual, Zheng He's treasure ships were mammoth ships with nine masts, four decks, and were capable of accommodating more than 500 passengers, as well as a massive amount of cargo. Marco Polo and Ibn Battuta both described multi-masted ships carrying 500 to 1000 passengers in their translated accounts.[29] Niccolò Da Conti, a contemporary of Zheng He, was also an eyewitness of ships in Southeast Asia, claiming to have seen 5 masted junks weighing about 2000 tons[30] There are even some sources that claim some of the treasure ships might have been as long as 600 feet.[31][32] On the ships were navigators, explorers, sailors, doctors, workers, and soldiers along with the translator and diarist Gong Zhen (simplified Chinese: 巩珍; traditional Chinese: 鞏珍; pinyin: gŏng zhēn).

Challenge:

Spoiler :
In each challenge, you must found Confucianism and Taoism.

Easy
Spoiler :
Reach the Americas by 1450.
Vassalize or conquer the Aztecs, (Mayas if they are still alive), Incas, and Americans.
Allow no more than 10 European settlements, that are not your vassals, on either North or South America in 1700.
Found/control at least 2 cities in Africa by 1500.
Found/control at least 1 city in Australia/New Zealand by 1500.
Found/control at least 10 cities in the Americas by 1700.

Medium
Spoiler :
Reach the Americas by 1400.
Vassalize or conquer the Aztecs, (Mayas if they are still alive), Incas; conquer the Americans.
Allow no more than 10 European settlements, that are not your vassals, in the Americas in 1700.
Found/control at least 3 cities in Africa by 1500.
Found/control at least 2 cities in Australia/New Zealand by 1500.
Found/control at least 15 cities in the Americas by 1700.


Difficult
Spoiler :
Reach the Americas by 1350.
Conquer the Aztecs, (Mayas if they are still alive), Incas, and Americans.
Allow no more than 5 European settlements in the Americas in 1700.
Allow no more than 1 European settlement in Australia/New Zealand in 1700.
Found/control at least 5 cities in Africa by 1500.
Found/control at least 4 cities in Australia/New Zealand by 1500.
Found/control at least 20 cities in the Americas by 1700.


More challenges are welcome!
 
Couple of questions:
-Is this all on Monarch difficulty, or another one? (either way, you should specify in the first post)
-Do you have to provide proof from Wikipedia (or another source)? Or could you just state why you think this could have been possible, if a war went the other way, a civilization didn't collapse, etc.?

All in all, this is a pretty cool idea. My computer, of late, has been having trouble handling RFC, so I don't know if I could do this challenge until later.
 
Um, just WB 10 (not 15 or 20) cities in your Chinese-American empire (which probably only contains 8 cities max) and see what that does to your stability. *shudders*
 
Hmm, controlling 20 cities in America is actually impossible for China. Ten is absolutely the limit, and that can still be considered as hard to accomplish. There aren't even decent places for 20 cities.
 
The Sun Never Sets on the American Empire

Partially inspired by Code Geass, Partially inspired by my Techno-Thriller in the works, The 52 States.

What if the American Revolution went more than America. What if they completely displaced Britain? What if they decided to annex more land than what they did? This is the way to find out

Spoiler The Sun Never Sets on the American Empire :


  • All of the actual UHV except for Number 3 still apply (NEW RULE! Pentagon MUST be in D.C. and Statue of Liberty and The U.N. MUST be in New York)
    Control Florida, New Orleans, and in general all land east of the Mississippi in the current US by:
    If Spawn date is 1733: 1775
    If Spawn date is 1775: 1800
    Control Continental Canada and USA by 1860
    Control Alaska, Hawaii, U.K. and Ireland by 1900
    Control India, Australia, and New Zealand by 1917
    Control Japan by 1945
    Ensure that Korea is either Independent or controlled by you or an ally by 1953
    Control Khmer (Vietnam) by 1966
    Have a higher score than Russia in 1991
    Control Babylon (Iraq) by 2005
    Control Mainland Portugal and Denmark by 2020

(List subject to change due to timeline. If any year listed on this is not in Rhye's, please say so, and tell me the closest year ASAP so I can change it.)
 
Inspired by the above UHVs, what would have happen if England had decided to use it's position to establish complete military rule in Europe and the nearby area?

1: Control Paris, Rome and Lisbon by 1500 AD
2. Control Madrid, Berlin, and Amsterdam by 1700 AD
3. Adopt Representation by 1650 AD and stay in it until 1900 AD

Spoiler :
Basically you'll have to use medieval warfare to get the first UHV, Paris seems an obvious alt-history goal for the English, if they had won the 100 years war. Lisbon is to represent England's relations with Portugal, although in this alt-history scenario the good relations will first have to be secured with military actions. And controlling Rome is due to England's conflict with the Catholic church, what's with Henry the 8th and all that.
The 3 other capitals will have to be secured by England to ensure the empire's safety in Europe, and the 3rd UHV is not only to make things harder stability-wise but also because of England's long history of constitutional monarchy.
 
Couple of questions:
-Is this all on Monarch difficulty, or another one? (either way, you should specify in the first post)
-Do you have to provide proof from Wikipedia (or another source)? Or could you just state why you think this could have been possible, if a war went the other way, a civilization didn't collapse, etc.?

Any difficulty, the different levels of challenge are for the different skill levels of players.

Any reason is fine, I just wanted to be thorough with my challenge.

Um, just WB 10 (not 15 or 20) cities in your Chinese-American empire (which probably only contains 8 cities max) and see what that does to your stability. *shudders*

I WB's 30 cities in the Americas, Australia, and Africa before I proposed this challenge; I then waited about 50 turns. I was collapsing, but no cities were lost; I gave the technologies of the 1700's so their penalties and benefits would apply. And at the end of that time, stability went up to shaky; that was on emperor. So I think it's possible, especially because expansion while actually playing would occour at a better pace, and civics would help to counter the penalties. The tech cost and commerce cost were extreme though.
 
China is already huge, youre challenge is very unreasonable for a slow teching nation like china

Mine would be for japan, It involves some tweaking of files
(pick a late starting civ like turkey, autoplay then export the game as WB save, turn off the game and add in space for a great library (world limit=2))

Very little people know that when tokugawa united japan, he did not close of trade, this was done by his grandson, and crippled japan to nearly the point of no return (you certainly couldnt represent japan's transformation in game) As the royal advisor to the new shogun, your task is to westernize japan and become the king of world trade,

Open borders and build the great library with 10 nations by 1500
Prevent western religions from occupying the top space in 1700,
Be the first civilization to industrialize and modernize (ala britain)
 
China is already huge, youre challenge is very unreasonable for a slow teching nation like china

Mine would be for japan, It involves some tweaking of files
(pick a late starting civ like turkey, autoplay then export the game as WB save, turn off the game and add in space for a great library (world limit=2))

Very little people know that when tokugawa united japan, he did not close of trade, this was done by his grandson, and crippled japan to nearly the point of no return (you certainly couldnt represent japan's transformation in game) As the royal advisor to the new shogun, your task is to westernize japan and become the king of world trade,

Open borders and build the great library with 10 nations by 1500
Prevent western religions from occupying the top space in 1700,
Be the first civilization to industrialize and modernize (ala britain)

What's the top space? Like, prevent western religions from being the #1 religion?
 
What if the Greek army didn't mutiny? If Alexander pushed on? And the Greeks conquered the world....[need help with dates here]

challenge-
1. Rule Persia/Babylon in ___
2. Control India in ___
3. Build an Odeon in each city not on the Greek mainland, make at least 5 non Greek-mainland cities "influential" in terms of culture

This way you conquer, and spread culture [the Greeks {Macedonians} actually did this, and it's considered to have the biggest impact of all the things the Macedonian empire did]
 
First, your forgetting that Alexander also took Egypt, who were ruled by the Persians at the time.

Secondly, this game can not realistically simulate Alexander's empire. His entire conquests happen in a "single turn", timeline wise.
 
I tried my Colonial China Challenge, on medium difficulty.

Victory was achieved in 1796, with the conquest of the Americans.

Aztecs and Incas were conquered with the conqurer event, the Mayas were not alive. The Americans were conquered with a fleet of soldiers in the Caribbean.

America was discovered in 1020, Mexico was spotted. (I beelined optics for this :))

2 cities were founded on Madagascar and 1 conquered on the mainland, accomplished in 1400.

2 cities were founded in New Zealand in 1150.

15 cities were founded/conquered in the Americas in 1645.

Portugal and England were made vassals, so their cities do not count towards the number of European settlements founded; there were 4 cities of non-vassalized Europeans in the Americas in 1700 (verified through WorldBuilder).

About stability: I was solid/very solid up until the end, where I fell to stable.

About maintance and Tech rate: my game is modded for lower upkeep costs, which allowed for faster research. Because of this this game might not be counted as a "true" fufillment of the challenge's goals.

Pictures at the end:

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Viceroy level???
 
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