The cradle of these Civilizations

[Eclipse4449]

Please keep an open mind here, I may not be the best player out there but I have a huge amount of experience of the topic PBEM GAMES. I host them, I join them, I play everyday, and each and every pbem game I play is unique. Or/and the players in that game are making it great due to their personal contributions in the form of Posting Entertaining bits that can be Diplomatic, Role-Playing, you name it, there is no limits to our imagination.

I mention this in the hopes you can agree on some of the ideas I would like to implement in this game.

First
1) I do not think an entire game can be played using this Mod with multiple players because real life schedules will always take precedence and with an example of 4 players, one turn could take 7 days and even more depending on the situation, then doing the math or rather guessing at it 2+ years per Era. When you look at a game from this prospective does this game have the ability to hold players attention that long.

In my opinion if were to start a new game using "Normal" speed and a "Standard start" (1-Settler, 1 Scout/Warrior). the only thing holding all players to the game is the knowledge of how big and monstrous this thing might become.

So I want to do 2 things about that right away. Let's use the "Time" victory Condition and use Ancient Times Era as our first goal.

The Second thing is to make this game different from any other game and more appealing to keep players interested.
I want use an Earth Map players can agree on, and a starting position for all players in and around Egypt. We will start with your tribe as Nomadic and considerably large for a game but remember you are a 1 in strength and tied with the weakest animals on the map, not to mention Barbarians that have no desire to let you pass without a fight.

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I think if all players met on their first turn and began speaking in their limited languages of the possibility of migrating in the direction of choice, they would divide into tribes (individual civilizations) and travel in some cases together and others the opposite direction.

You would immediately need to decide where you might go, discover who might be going the same way (I will provide an Ancient map of the known world to aid you in your decision.

Now a player decides how far he is willing to migrate, 10 turns north into the middle east, 30 more turns beyond that? The distance you travel can pay in resources what time unsettled cost.

Never before have you had the opportunity to not settle immediately, a dozen or so units making their way threw unexplored and dangerous lands possibly far better than the arid desserts where you originated. You can settle right there and be known by everyone where you are and simply manage your Empire for thousands of years or head for the safety of distance and the lush possibilities not available at the Cradle.

Doing this on an Earth size map will effect how far players are from each other, will they for the next dozen turns march all the way to Russia? Probably not, yet a random map generated for us will spread us pretty far apart and with that a few clicks each turn you are just doing nothing.

I propose adding the effect of survival. There maybe a point you are forced to settle just to survive! I think every step you take (turn) will be exciting! The challenge of holding out and making it far for its rewards (I will ensure the map is setup like this) will keep players interested. Think of how the middle east, Europe and Asian trade occurred over our history.

Take your Xiongnu Tribe you started with and rename it China or Gauls, or Greece, it's up to you, the only thing that can't change is your Leaderhead/Flag and your Traits

 

[HBHR]

I just hope to be alive when this pbem finish

 

[Eclipse4449]

updated post #21

 

[lunfa_reo]

Hi lunfa_reo, click again http://www.moddb.com/mods/caveman2cosmos/downloads/caveman2cosmos-v31-fixed"]http://www.moddb.com/mods/caveman2cosmos/downloads/caveman2cosmos-v31-fixed[/URLSAME]
DON'T click on "install now" instead, click on RED (not blue) "download now" link... save as, browse and go the bed for a while after that, have lot of fun

PD: I think gamefront never work for South América

The hyperlink is garbled but I extracted the URL from it and went to it. Yes, I click the red "download now" button, I don't use "install" or "download with Desura", but I still get the "mirrors not available" message.

I think what you said about gamefront not working for South America might very well be the reason. I didn't know that and now I think I downloaded the version of C2C I used to play (v23) via a torrent they published at that time.

I could try to setup a tunnel connection to make gamefront think I'm in the USA or Europe so it lets me download it, but it's a very complex task I'd need to research heavily first

ok give me some time and I'll break up the files to something that can be worked with.

if you can locate a server site we can use post it here

I'm thinking about dropbox with 2+ GB of space limit, but I'm not sure of its limitation on max file size for individual files. I'll look into that or try to find another file sharing service.

Thanks for all your help btw

I want to make sure all interested players here understand the scope and size of this game.

I believe the idea here was for a player to start a Single Player game with this mod that will keep him busy for a while, no matter the frequency you play there'd be a lot of game still to be played!

Those that have complete a full length game on "Normal" has just played One Era of a C2C game so that would translate to an impossible duration for those of who prefer matching wits with other human players. So I have several solutions or better said "ideas" which while we wait for players the first and probably the most important question will be.

How many players should we allow to play?

Taking in consideration what you said here and in your other (longer) post, I'd say 5 players looks like a good number. Could be 4 as well, but more than 5 could be difficult to keep all players interested for the entire duration of such a long game.

I read your ideas post, I'll comment about it later, gotta do some work now.

Bye!

 

[lunfa_reo]

Hey Eclipse,

I like the ideas in your post above, I think a game such as the one you are envisioning would be really interesting.

However I wonder how feasible it would be. There are two things I have doubts with in this regard.

First one is migration. While I love the idea of exploring with your initial units trying to find a better land to settle, I wonder if that wouldn't slow down a human player too much against the AIs. 20 turns before founding your first city seems like a lot, even for C2C (what game speed do you have in mind? I seem to remember Eternity and Snail were not balanced).

To check this I suggest doing a test single player game where you perform the migration, settle and let the AI take over and autoplay for a while, then evaluate what's your civ's position relative to the AIs (who would have surely settled on turn 1) at a given point in time.

My second concern is players' awareness about the huge scope this game would cover. C2C is massive and its authors add new stuff each version. Unaware players might get bored and drop leaving us with a huge game with only 2 or 3 players. Even if we perform actions to actively raise awareness in this regard for potential players, I think a player should experience C2C him/herself first to get a proper overview.

Maybe you could advertise this PBEM project in the C2C forums and invite players there to join, that would ensure we'd have players familiar with C2C and who understand the huge scope of the game they are committing to play.

Another idea would be to setup a narrower scope C2C test PBEM (let's say a small, non-Earth map, normal speed, not too many AIs) for players who have mentioned their interest at a certain time and use that game as a proof of concept on how your original bigger scope game would be and its chances of becoming a successful and fun game experience.

 

[lunfa_reo]

ok give me some time and I'll break up the files to something that can be worked with.

if you can locate a server site we can use post it here

I can download without problems from www.atomicgamer.com. Not sure about max file size though...

 

[Eclipse4449]

I can download without problems from www.atomicgamer.com. Not sure about max file size though...

Excellent! I'll try to upload the file and the newest file update this weekend. Be patient we'll get threw this.


Thank you for for your comments. Well I never mention AIs because they never crossed my mind, there is no way that a AI would "Migrate" so I never considered any.

I think "normal" speed will do, the new speeds created for this game are largely to slow the games pace and extend the game many times over (although that's a guess).

I'm looking at 5 players and I'm thinking of running the initial game as a "player created scenario". This means at the end of this first game (Prehistoric Era) a map editor will move an exact copy of your work, units, city(s) and your buildings onto a new map allowing that player(s) to play the next Era

More on this later

 

[Calanthian]

One suggestion which might make this migration thing work:

Make two slight modifications:
1) make a settler move 4 tiles instead of 2
2) make a scout stronger defensively (e.g. defense=4) and move=4

 

[Eclipse4449]

One suggestion which might make this migration thing work:

Make two slight modifications:
1) make a settler move 4 tiles instead of 2
2) make a scout stronger defensively (e.g. defense=4) and move=4

Cool nice idea but I don't know how to make changes like that but moving farther is an awesome idea. But I don't think there will be scouts in the Prehistoric Age, starting unit are very week, they are a 1 and seem less than that opposed to a Tiger or Lion.

My idea is to set a standard quantity of units and have a variance of units (Hunters(can capture animals), Gatherer(maybe I wished healed units 2%), stone thrower(I wish had ranged throwing) these units if moving strategically could reach a good distance with good survivability. Secondly your not alone, the migrant can support each others journey and become Germany and France or Kiev and Mongolia, well you get the idea

I want the game to be short but exciting and I think wandering around the world is risky but with risk there is benefits. I want it to be a precursor for a longer stronger game which is based on how civilizations were settled on the first game. This means these civilizations must be setup as they were at the end of the Prehistoric Age.


I'm not sure if this idea is interesting to other players but imo I've played many games both scenarios and random maps and in both cases give or take you start with the same thing. You Micro-manage and multiply yields, It's a great system and we love it.

But I feel very strongly about 2 missing things, teamwork and communication. Now I do not mean like a team game like team vs team, but as fellow humans where there is strength in numbers and the reason you'd trade with them goes beyond being randomly placed beside them. I once listened to a speaker sharing his belief of how early man managed, what they had to do everyday to survive makes you think of how important their core values were. The way we play these games is grow and connect resources and trade them to those we've met. There is nothing more to it, but there really, this game and especially this mods gives you more. I think a player can gift a Great Engineer to another player to help him complete a Hospital because that player has to much sickness, and ask for nothing in return, you might do this to spread a Religion or a Corporation for free but chances are a player will think of that great Engineer as something that will benefit himself (well rightly so that is the name of the game, my point is that there are so many other avenues that can be taken other than you can clearly see from game to game.

And on the communication aspect, I am playing a scenario with a buddy here that requires both of us to exchange screenshots to move our units. Based on the units ahead we must pull from both of our total forces the types of units that are best for the upcoming battle, not to mention what type of unit moves first.
We must retreat and coordinate Medics (I,II) where they are best needed, Surveillance flights, best use of terrain. Let me tell you when a bombing run is successful and you and your team mate moving against 2 other players that doesn't care to communicate, it is fun and I bet anything it would be even more fun if they'd use a strategy to move but I've yet to see it.

Well anyway I still have to upload the patch to a friendlier site and find a few more interested players. I need an Earth map that would suit our players needs regarding migrating far away to find resources that would make them better than just simply settling near where they started to get a jump on growth, research etc.

Thanks for your interest Cal

 

[Calanthian]

If you have the mod files, I can make those changes..

They are easy to implement. As long as you know what you want to change.
Unit stats are easily changed.