scy12
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2007
- Messages
- 5,181
Here are some personal thoughts on the matter , i am also interested in your ideas about it.
Well i need to mention several of the historical realities of the island to explain what the British had done and someting that it is quite discussed here in Cyprus , how different things would be if we choose something different.
And i would also expand into some other subjects just because i can.
Cyprus was conquered by the Ottomans while being at Venetian control at the 16th century. Over the centuries Ottoman/Turkish collonists and their offspring did populate the island. They where at around 17% of the population.
At 1898 Britain decided to buy the island from the Ottomans i due to Cyprus being a great base of operations for cotrolling the Suez Canal.
Anyway the British keeped control of the island but they did create some sort of counsils with limited power with both Greek and Turkish representation with all members having veto power.
In effect what they didn't like would be vetoed by the Turkish ministers.
That was their bet for the start of the century. Later on when Greece and thousands of Cypriots (Could be a record , the number to population percentage) fought in the world wars they where promised to be united with Greece in exhange. Something the British had no intention of doing.
And as the Turks certainly didn't want it , they where used by the British side.
Later on when EOKA was formed it targeted primarly British forces and Branches of it communist forces as well. Anyway the British collonial force eventually used Turkish army groups in their rank . They did attrocities. And so did the Greeks. Their role is obviouis. But the role of the British and their plan of both side doing attrocities and dividing themselfs so that an independed united with Greece or elsewhile indepented Cyprus would be impossible.
Most atrocities happened after the British agreed to give a constitution to Cyprus . The problem with that constitution which is the same with all new plans was that it was not a democratic one. It is a kind of affirmative action but for all brances of the governmental system. The Turkish side would have a de facto percentage of people in all ranks of the goverment no matter what.
It failed and at 1963 the Turks removed themselfs from the goverment. As the violence grew and as Greece and Turkey supplied each side War between Greece and Turkey was more than possible. IN fact the whole Southeastern part of NATO , was pretty much unusable due to both countries concentrating on this matter.
Turkey did threaten to invade several types being stoped by either US or the Soviet Union for reasons i can probably find out but it will need time. (And i will have to open up an excellent book on the subject).
Anyway the current situation was not positive for NATO so US wished with several plans to put the country under NATO control which it had not achieved.
As the Cypriots where against it , specifically the presidnet Makarios , he was backed of in that time period by the Soviet Union. One plan supposed at that time by the US may have been one not so disastrous.
Anyway , the President of Cyprus was an idiot and unpopular with the US. He supported several communist ideals and was against militarization of the island. Unfortunately being an idiot he didn't know geography and suspect that removing the Greek army of the region would mean a Turkish invasion could not easily be stopped. Greece was never as powerful as Turkey and they where at a great geographical , tactical and political disadvantage.
Anyway to cut the story short there was betrayal in Athens and Cyprus by traitors the army was in chaos and neither the US or the Soviet Union did anything to stop the Turkish invasion which was done for only one reason. Territorial expansion.
The Humanitarian cost was massive.
Interestingly enough the agreed with the British invadors stopped at where the British bases where.
After 1974 Cyprus recovered swiftly with the crysis and we deserve much praise for our macroeconomic policies.
The Cyprus division is in a very big part a diplomatic success by the British in their quest to control the island. Any further solution among the countless the one's who where the fathers of the problem proposed are only in support of their today's national interests. Which are , keep the essential Cypriot Base , the best aircraft carrier on the world and also remove the Cypriot obstacle in Turkish attempt to enter the EU by proposing a solution that can be aceepted by the powerful and alies , Turkey while convincing Cypriots to accept it. Well they didn't so far.
Now there are some questions of what we could have done different.
A) We should have never fought Britain in the first place. Answer , Cyprus position is among the most important of the world for such a small island. We would have been a British protectorate. I also don't think that something other would not have gone wrong in that situation.
B) We had not falled into such aggresion against the Turks. I agree that it would have been better if it didn't happen. But the fact is the aggression was done by not one side but by three. (British,Turks,Greeks). Anyway even so paramilitaries organisations are hard to control so i guess that was inevitable.
C) We made Cyprus a Nato protectorate. Hmm see A.
D) We did not have an idiot for a president , he tried to keep a Greek army in
Cyprus but had not been overly aggressive to either the Soviet Union or the US.The Turkish invasion could been averted but not all problems would be solved. There is always the case of other traitors than the President of Cyprus at the time.
The bigger issue in Cyprus is not the inevitable British bases but what to do about the illegally occupied by 20000 Turkish troops northern part of Cyprus (Which is much bigger) where refugees can not use their homes and being paid for the years of not using them or getting them back.
Now all of Turkey's actions in all international organizations where all against Cypriot interests. If Turkey enters the EU today that would not be for the best of Cyprus. Now if Turkey accepts a beneficial for Cypriots (all nationalities) solution then i could care less if , it decides to enter.
There is the issue of honoring what they signed ofcourse as they did signed that they would recognize us , as a member of the EU but they do not.
It really is impossible to do something against the British bases today. Even though they didn't hold their side of the deal. The deal was that Britain would pay for the use of them some millions/Billions each year ,etc for keeping them but they have not payed a cent. Still i can't see how we can do anything against them
See the double standard of legality here ?
Anyway , some roads have been opened and all Cypriots want to live together. They are fed up of division and violence among communities is not existent. The creators of this problem however will only offer us a solution that will only solve their problems not ours. And as all are discussing about an affirmative action federation which would not be a democracy , for a solution i am against it. I also fail to trust that Turkey will honor it's signature.
Anyway here is my rant about a problem that is long , has been constructed By Foreigners and Cypriots and now appears to want to be solved , by Cypriots and Foreigners.
The Deux ex machine remain the same both in the creation and in the attempt to solve it. I say screw it , i am going to take my chances with a prosperous democracy until we find ways to eliminate it. If i take my chances with the democracy the bigger fear is the rise of oil , in a not energy independent state if i take my chances with what "solution" they give us we would have to face much more.
Indeed we haven't done bad , considering.
Well i need to mention several of the historical realities of the island to explain what the British had done and someting that it is quite discussed here in Cyprus , how different things would be if we choose something different.
And i would also expand into some other subjects just because i can.
Cyprus was conquered by the Ottomans while being at Venetian control at the 16th century. Over the centuries Ottoman/Turkish collonists and their offspring did populate the island. They where at around 17% of the population.
At 1898 Britain decided to buy the island from the Ottomans i due to Cyprus being a great base of operations for cotrolling the Suez Canal.
Anyway the British keeped control of the island but they did create some sort of counsils with limited power with both Greek and Turkish representation with all members having veto power.
In effect what they didn't like would be vetoed by the Turkish ministers.
That was their bet for the start of the century. Later on when Greece and thousands of Cypriots (Could be a record , the number to population percentage) fought in the world wars they where promised to be united with Greece in exhange. Something the British had no intention of doing.
And as the Turks certainly didn't want it , they where used by the British side.
Later on when EOKA was formed it targeted primarly British forces and Branches of it communist forces as well. Anyway the British collonial force eventually used Turkish army groups in their rank . They did attrocities. And so did the Greeks. Their role is obviouis. But the role of the British and their plan of both side doing attrocities and dividing themselfs so that an independed united with Greece or elsewhile indepented Cyprus would be impossible.
Most atrocities happened after the British agreed to give a constitution to Cyprus . The problem with that constitution which is the same with all new plans was that it was not a democratic one. It is a kind of affirmative action but for all brances of the governmental system. The Turkish side would have a de facto percentage of people in all ranks of the goverment no matter what.
It failed and at 1963 the Turks removed themselfs from the goverment. As the violence grew and as Greece and Turkey supplied each side War between Greece and Turkey was more than possible. IN fact the whole Southeastern part of NATO , was pretty much unusable due to both countries concentrating on this matter.
Turkey did threaten to invade several types being stoped by either US or the Soviet Union for reasons i can probably find out but it will need time. (And i will have to open up an excellent book on the subject).
Anyway the current situation was not positive for NATO so US wished with several plans to put the country under NATO control which it had not achieved.
As the Cypriots where against it , specifically the presidnet Makarios , he was backed of in that time period by the Soviet Union. One plan supposed at that time by the US may have been one not so disastrous.
Anyway , the President of Cyprus was an idiot and unpopular with the US. He supported several communist ideals and was against militarization of the island. Unfortunately being an idiot he didn't know geography and suspect that removing the Greek army of the region would mean a Turkish invasion could not easily be stopped. Greece was never as powerful as Turkey and they where at a great geographical , tactical and political disadvantage.
Anyway to cut the story short there was betrayal in Athens and Cyprus by traitors the army was in chaos and neither the US or the Soviet Union did anything to stop the Turkish invasion which was done for only one reason. Territorial expansion.
The Humanitarian cost was massive.
Interestingly enough the agreed with the British invadors stopped at where the British bases where.
After 1974 Cyprus recovered swiftly with the crysis and we deserve much praise for our macroeconomic policies.
The Cyprus division is in a very big part a diplomatic success by the British in their quest to control the island. Any further solution among the countless the one's who where the fathers of the problem proposed are only in support of their today's national interests. Which are , keep the essential Cypriot Base , the best aircraft carrier on the world and also remove the Cypriot obstacle in Turkish attempt to enter the EU by proposing a solution that can be aceepted by the powerful and alies , Turkey while convincing Cypriots to accept it. Well they didn't so far.
Now there are some questions of what we could have done different.
A) We should have never fought Britain in the first place. Answer , Cyprus position is among the most important of the world for such a small island. We would have been a British protectorate. I also don't think that something other would not have gone wrong in that situation.
B) We had not falled into such aggresion against the Turks. I agree that it would have been better if it didn't happen. But the fact is the aggression was done by not one side but by three. (British,Turks,Greeks). Anyway even so paramilitaries organisations are hard to control so i guess that was inevitable.
C) We made Cyprus a Nato protectorate. Hmm see A.
D) We did not have an idiot for a president , he tried to keep a Greek army in
Cyprus but had not been overly aggressive to either the Soviet Union or the US.The Turkish invasion could been averted but not all problems would be solved. There is always the case of other traitors than the President of Cyprus at the time.
The bigger issue in Cyprus is not the inevitable British bases but what to do about the illegally occupied by 20000 Turkish troops northern part of Cyprus (Which is much bigger) where refugees can not use their homes and being paid for the years of not using them or getting them back.
Now all of Turkey's actions in all international organizations where all against Cypriot interests. If Turkey enters the EU today that would not be for the best of Cyprus. Now if Turkey accepts a beneficial for Cypriots (all nationalities) solution then i could care less if , it decides to enter.
There is the issue of honoring what they signed ofcourse as they did signed that they would recognize us , as a member of the EU but they do not.
It really is impossible to do something against the British bases today. Even though they didn't hold their side of the deal. The deal was that Britain would pay for the use of them some millions/Billions each year ,etc for keeping them but they have not payed a cent. Still i can't see how we can do anything against them
See the double standard of legality here ?
Anyway , some roads have been opened and all Cypriots want to live together. They are fed up of division and violence among communities is not existent. The creators of this problem however will only offer us a solution that will only solve their problems not ours. And as all are discussing about an affirmative action federation which would not be a democracy , for a solution i am against it. I also fail to trust that Turkey will honor it's signature.
Anyway here is my rant about a problem that is long , has been constructed By Foreigners and Cypriots and now appears to want to be solved , by Cypriots and Foreigners.
The Deux ex machine remain the same both in the creation and in the attempt to solve it. I say screw it , i am going to take my chances with a prosperous democracy until we find ways to eliminate it. If i take my chances with the democracy the bigger fear is the rise of oil , in a not energy independent state if i take my chances with what "solution" they give us we would have to face much more.
Indeed we haven't done bad , considering.
