The dawn of the SWEDISH civ...

OmniMower

OmniMower

Codename Synrise
Joined
Jul 18, 2002
Messages
1,352
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In the middle of Sweden
Well, its bout time we make a Swedish civ dont ya think.

We just got a finnish civ, so lets go thru it all again to make it as good as the finnish one :D

First Q: Wich traits should em have?

• Militaristic - Well.. we were pretty agressive. The vikings went all the way into Russia. And the during the Carolean era, Sweden brought havoc to almost entire northen Europe, even down to Turkey...
• Scientific - We do have, and is known to had a good Scientific ground here. But only later in history.
• Expansionist - Yes, we were expansionists, but only during the 1700-1800´s so I dont think its a right trait.
• Religious - nah, no comments needed
• Agriculture - hmmm... maybe but no, think there are more propiate traits.
• Seafaring - Yes, why not.... but they were only that in the early eras.
• Industrious - Yes, we have some big industries and we like to think industrious. But only in the late part of the history.
• Commercial - hmmm... dunno bout this one. But Sweden was during a time in history one of the wealthiest contries in the world.

Now, the tricky part is, wich era should we concentrate on. Its hard to find traits that go thru all eras.
 
Argh not a Swedish civ!:eek:

just kidding;)

I vote Mil, Ind, afterall you got Volvo, or Mil, Com, the Varangian empire was based on trade, and since the rennaisance you became pretty rich again:)
 
Militaristic feels like a very good fit, but there are some problems. One can argue that the aggressiveness of Sweden in the past was perfectly normal conduct for an European power of that time. The peak of Swedish militarism was during an era, when all European powers were regularly at each others' throats and Sweden wasn't notably worse than the other players. After thinking of it for a while, a more peaceful Sweden might be more fitting. But militaristic is certainly a viable option, but it is downplayed by the peacefulness of later Sweden.

Commercial would be a fine choice. Wealth, low corruption and strong society.

Scientific might also be a good one. Lots of famous scientists and an advanced society.

Yes, that could be my vote: Commercial and Scientific.
 
Sweden, that's them that make all those Army Knives and chocolate, right? ;)
I think that Industrious is a definite. Volvo, Saab, Scania, ASEA, Ericsson, the list of Swedish successfull industries is bloody endless, considering it's a country with only 9 million inhabitants. And don't forget all the big public works, like Göta Kanal, all the railroads (I'm mostly thinking about the ones in Norrland, northern Sweden) and the hydroelectric dams. And Alfred Nobel, of course, who not only got that price thing together, but also invented dynamite. ;) I think that the last two hundred years Sweden has been industrious, superceding all the other traits.

I also think that the golden age was during the 30 years war. During this time Sweden was militaristic, the country (including Finland and most of Balticum) was during this time bled dry of people, as all the wars took a heavy toll on the population.

So, I agree with Yoda Power, that the Swedes should be Mil, Ind. :D
 
Selling spice and stuff is Commercial. Constructing cars, which you sell, is also commercial, but I think it's more Industrious than Commercial. If you see what I mean. ;) And I don't think we're more scientific than many other countries.
I'll just add the undecided Swedish flag:
:(:):(
:):):)
:(:):(
 
Militaristic, Commercial

This fits the Vikings and Imperial parts of Sweden's history.
 
A philosophical question is raised: What does it mean to be militaristic but not expansionist? I would suggest that it means keeping a first-rate military as a national / cultural / civilization priority without being an aggressor, so both Sweden and Switzerland qualify (I merely pick two of the most obvious non-aggressive European powers of recent times).

-Oz

PS Coda to the philosphical question: Is it possible to be expansionist without being militaristic?

-O.
 
Originally posted by ozymandias
PS Coda to the philosphical question: Is it possible to be expansionist without being militaristic?

-O.
Click to expand...
Yes. You can settle new land with military force.

I dont think Scientific fits Sweden. Compared to some of the other Scientific civ you didn't do alot.
 
Originally posted by Drift
Militaristic feels like a very good fit, but there are some problems. One can argue that the aggressiveness of Sweden in the past was perfectly normal conduct for an European power of that time. The peak of Swedish militarism was during an era, when all European powers were regularly at each others' throats and Sweden wasn't notably worse than the other players. After thinking of it for a while, a more peaceful Sweden might be more fitting. But militaristic is certainly a viable option, but it is downplayed by the peacefulness of later Sweden.
Click to expand...

I agree and disagree. Swedens Aggression value should be average/low, but the Mil trait would be appropriate. Why?

Aggression: The value between 1-5 which influences the likelyhood of the Civ(if AI controlled) starting war. Should be 2-3 for sweden in the epic game, since we didn't start that many wars, but got dragged or bribed into most of them.

MIL: In the game, the Mil trait has no effect on the aggressiveness of the Civ. It influences how quickly military buildings can be built and how quickly the troops gain experience. This one applies to Civs who have been good at war through history, not necesarily fond of war. Especially if a civ was:
1) small, but managed to fend of a large empire. Sweden, Finland, Boers, Vietnam, etc.
2) large, managed to conquer a huge empire quickly with an efficient military machine. Rome, Macedonia, Germany, Mongols, perhaps Ottomans, etc.


The problem with Sweden is that it has a long and colorful history. I think the descicion needs to be made, just like with the other Civs, about which Sweden? is to stand model for the Swedish civ? The Vikings? The Middle ages? The Sweden of Gustaf Wasa, Gustav 2 Adolf & Carl XII? Or the modenr 19-20th century peaceful Sweden?

My opinion:
Vikings: :hmm: Cool, but there already exists a viking civ. And the norwegians and danes have more claim to fame here. Mil Sci would be the most obvious, but then the Vikings have that already...

Middle ages: Well, Sweden had a rather low profile during the middle ages, for a long time part of the Kalmar union.

16-18th cent: :king: Now you're talking! Lot's of glorious history (= suffering for the people) and some nice UU possibilities! Mil and ... what?

19-20th cent: A bit booring. Not many wars. Would be low aggression, Sci & Ind i guess...


I guess the most exciting and colourful period of Swedish history is the 16-18th century. Strong personalities, lots of nice UU's, warrior-kings, and the start of our scientific and engineering greateness. Only one prob: Mil Sci is already occupied by a not totaly insignificant european Civ... Ok, so maybe Mil Ind? Currently in use by the Chinese (not that fitting, realy ought to be Agr Sci) and the Austrians (I love austria, but Mil ind? :lol: come on!). So maybe Mil Ind.

Bad fits:
Com (Sweden was mostly poor during the period, depending on french bribes to sustain the army).
Agr: Sweden had very low population compared to other countries.
Exp: Fits the realy huge empires better. Sweden is rather small.
not so bad fits:
Rel: Well, there was some fanatiscism during the 30yrs war and later.
Sea: Sure, we had a fleet. and it was good. But the big ships seemed to sink without help from the enemy... :cry:
Ind: More appropriate for 19-20th cent. But there was a lot of contruction and engineering going on.
good fits:
Sci: Carl von Linne and all the rest. Fits like a glove.
Mil: Well, what can I say? :D

edit
Almost forgot: Who's to be the Leaderhead? Gustav Wasa is very appropriate I think. Or else Gustav II Adolf. In modern times i guess Oscar II or Per-Albin Hansson?
 
Originally posted by Iztvan

Almost forgot: Who's to be the Leaderhead? Gustav Wasa is very appropriate I think. Or else Gustav II Adolf. In modern times i guess Oscar II or Per-Albin Hansson?
Click to expand...

I believe you'll want to use Gustaf II as Sween32 has said he'll be able to finish the animated leaderhead of him in the near future.

And I'd say aggression of 3 is a good match for Swedes.
 
Yes, as Drift said, the LH will be Gurra the 2nd Adolf.

NAd thanx for ya input Iztvan, its not easy to choose the traits. But I agree with you that the most interesting part is during the 1600-1800´s , so I think it would be more fun to reflect that period.

Now, bout the UU. I will make 2 versions of this. One with 1 UU and another will all the UU Sweden have up till date.

So... you think a Carolean Infantry unit is good as UU?

/Omni
 
I'm all for basing it primarily on the 17th-18th C, and for Mil as one of the traits. And I guess I agree Sci is the best choice for the other.

Carolean Infantry (I'm more used to see it spelt "Caroline" in English, btw) would be cool, but it would pretty much have to be Musketmen, or possible Riflemen, with an offense bonus, which sounds decidedly non-exciting from the gameplay PoV. Carolean Cavalry could work better, only it would need to not duplicate the Cossack, Sipahi, or Hussar. Movement four would be too much, so there's not alot of options left. 7.4.3 at 90 shields, perhaps? Or extra HP?
 
A Carolean Cavalry could have stealth attack and an extra hitpoint, that would make it quite powerfull.
 
Jas Gripen for UU "Gävlar, gävlar..." ;)
j/k

Carolean cavalry or a musketman/rifleman would be quite ok. The cavalry would be tough, because there are already quite a few cavalries existing.

How are these for stats: 5/5/3, costs the same as regular cavalry, ignores stealth attacks (or what was the function for that)
 
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