Thorvald of Lym

A Little Sketchy
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It began, as these crises invariably do, with combat.

In its early days, Imperium Offtopicum seemed to defy easy categorization. "Geopolitical role-playing game" seemed an overly generous moniker for the loosely-structured tabletalk culture of 2010–2011. Rules were virtually nonexistent: the Game Moderator was a moderator, responsible for updating the map, guaranteeing decorum, and little else. They were games that emphasized co-operation, not competition; that held themselves together by a mutual respect amongst their participants. They had no goal; the adventure was the journey, not the destination. The idea that such a free-range, open-ended game could govern itself, let alone maintain enough enthusiasm to keep running, is nigh-unthinkable to the latest generation, and a tragic testament to how perversely the tradition has mutated from its humble roots.

Veteran players often look back on IOT IV as the pinnacle of both the "old school", and even the series entire; yet I hold the original sequel, the ironically-named IOT III, as the true high-water mark. Granted, at its peak, IV was the most popular and most active iteration, and the changes I introduced provided much-needed structure for elements just a bit too critical to be left to players' whims; but III was imbued with a spirit that I have never seen demonstrated as strongly in any subsequent installment. It was perhaps the only game in which the map didn't matter: until its final stages, the setting was carried exclusively through the story as written by the players. Conflicts were more internal than not; crises were those of intra-governmental squabbles or international criminal conspiracy, and what state-to-state flashpoints did emerge were resolved with words rather than swords. IOT III accomplished what every other game has only purported to do: champion the art of diplomacy.

Part of the reason for this was that the early games had not discovered a suitable mechanic for conducting warfare. The dice rolls in the first IOT were held to be too random, Mad Man's dance video competition too bizarre, and my attempt at actual combat simulation fell through once the scattered skirmishes exploded into world war. Even as the players yearned for the opportunity to finally crush Mathalamus, out of spite or otherwise, the black hole of combat remained a surprisingly effective deterrent. Whenever war finally did erupt, especially on a large scale, the game could be reliably predicted to fold shortly thereafter. Early IOT may never have held any victory conditions, but the unspoken rule was that the mere start of war symbolized global defeat.

That defeat has now claimed the series in its entirety.

Reconciling the hard numbers of a combat mechanic with the limitless imagination of a roleplay world became the focus of the sequels and adaptations that emerged after IV. The "main" or "numbered" line has more or less adhered to a simplistic approach with a set "balance" of attacks, sometimes arbitrated, sometimes based on a crude economic model tying provinces to points. The myriad of spin-offs built upon this framework, progressively refining and specifying economics into statistics encompassing national industry, military technology, international trade, espionage, and so forth. This evolution, while gradual, has proven monumental in scope: what began as a supplementary means to provide objective and quantifiable military strength fundamentally rewrote the character of the game, and in doing so, destroyed its unique identity.

"Roleplay is the essence of IOT", Taniciusfox's photocopied rulesets repeat over and over. The truth, deplorably, is that this statement has been a lie for at least a year. Sure, almost every opening post you'll find makes some encouraging statement; and yes, games generally reward players willing to invest the time into garnishing their little worlds; but roleplay has only truly remained at the heart of the "original line" of games, a line that seems doomed to die out, if it hasn't already. Economics has usurped the throne, spontaneous creativity replaced with cold, hard statistics. IOT these days more closely resembles a Paradox Interactive strategy game than a friendly pastime at the lunch table. And because the environment is now defined by set numbers and formulae, victory and defeat can be expressed in tangible terms. Games are no longer about co-operation, but competition; not about building one's own world as much as tearing down those of one's neighbours; war, once a rarity, is now commonplace. The GM no longer mediates disputes; he rationalizes the destruction. In the economized IOT, roleplay is nothing more than a monetary incentive, the fading flame of imagination rendered subservient to mathematical logic.

Predictably, this hostile atmosphere sells itself to a different player mentality. The original band of IOTers, the participants in the first six to eight games, were strongly adverse to complex mechanics: the sessions they knew were casual affairs; they played to have fun—"IOT is not a wargame!" we chanted to Domination3000—and I don't think it's any coincidence that all but a precious few of the old club are no longer seen on the premises. The generation that has come to replace them plays to win. It scours the rules for any loophole or ambiguity it can exploit for self-advancement. It bickers amongst itself over technicalities realized too late to abuse. As it wheels and deals with its fellows, it is ever calculating how best to dispose of its partners. Ignorant of its own history, it expresses incredulity at the possibility of a "self-governing" game, a "diplomatic" game, dismissing such a simplistic design as "boring" and inherently destined to fail. It is a cruel people, for an equally cruel age.

What went so horribly wrong? choxorn, one of the original participants now virtually anonymous to the community, posits that the game unintentionally sold itself out to the "problem players". Early IOTs were marked by their self-discipline; it was only a small fringe that chose the war drum as its first recourse. Despite repeated calls for these players to be kicked, the GMs reluctantly held them on in order to remain 'fair' to the CFC moderators. The consequence was that the disease festered; unable to shake ourselves loose of them, we were forced to bend the rules to accommodate their aggressive playstyle. As early as IOT3, the idea of roleplayed combat had been tossed around; as soon as IOT4, any such hope had been dashed against the rocks. Roleplay requires subjectivity, something impossible to uphold in good faith when players are driven by absolute victory. choxorn concludes thusly: "I think that the proliferation of the mechanics to fight wars is almost entirely their [the problem players'] fault- because they wanted a way to win, and everyone else wanted a way to conquer them so that they'd leave."

Rightly or wrongly, Imperium Offtopicum is likened to another CFC culture, Never-Ending Stories. In its infancy, IOT was derided as an "even lazier LazyNES", an unwitting imitation that eschewed hard mechanics and dumbed down diplomacy. Today, IOTers cling to the notion the camps remain distinct by claiming IOT is "gameplay-oriented" while NES is "story-oriented". I freely admit that despite repeated attempts at research, my understanding of NES is cursory at best; but I would argue that IOT and NES are now much more similar than ever before, that the pursuit of increasingly complex mechanics renders the games practically distinguishable only in their respective decorum. NES may be much more verbose in its daily discussions, but at the end of the day, in both games the roleplay is a façade, mere decoration for computations seeking the maximization of statistical advantage. Perhaps the moderators are right: perhaps it's time the forums were merged and the communities combined. At least then we would get postcount.

IOT was unique, once. It was the sort of game played with a wink and a smile by a community that trusted each other enough to leave the particulars of its world open to the fates. It was a story more than a game, a leisurely saga of make-believe politics told under an umbrella of mutual respect. Today it's little more than an inefficient session of a multiplayer strategy game, every sentence milked for profit, every order the result of meticulous cost-benefit analysis. I have followed the tradition almost from its inception, watched as the games of the mind turned into attrition of the chessboard, witnessed our indescribable little pearl devolve into a dime-a-dozen strategy game. I have always endeavoured to support that original simplicity wherever it manifests, but with the old guard long gone and the new régime crushingly apathetic, perhaps it's time to admit defeat.

The king is dead. Long live the king.


This article was originally published on deviantART 30 October 2012. It has been expanded for CivFanatics incorporating feedback on the first issue.
 
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Bob Dylan said:
Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.

That being said, though, I really don't like how many IOTs nowadays has essentially become a series of ludicrously complicated Economic rules, even if it's only because I have trouble understanding them. I'd love to see a mix of the old, classic-style IOTs combined with some 'modern' developments (combat resolution, a simplified economics set, etc).
 
Although I have only been introduce to the news ones, I feel the classical IOT had more flexability that ensured better results. Roleplay should be a heart then simply a face. It ensures one is more bounded to their countries then simply playing a fancy game of RISK.
 
Basically all of this is completely true.
 
Well I like the idea of all roleplay and no combat. I tried that in IOT: X.

<snip>

If you want to know why the IOTs are dying, it's because of meta alliances. I tried going the peace route for IOT: X, and was utterly and completely stopped when 5 nations attacked me.

People call me a warmonger, and claim that I just "play to win" or to "ruin other people's games". I'm sorry, but there's too many rude people, (jerks) on this forum. I'm tired of stuck up players who act like they're superior due to their wealth of "experience" and blah blah blah. I'm tired of whining players who spend 4 pages of a thread arguing because someone wants to claim a province close to them.

<snip>

All in all, it's a game, and the goal is to have fun. I see less fun, more whining, more complaining, and more anger and hate.

<snip>

Moderator Action: I snipped out the parts that were not relevant to the topic and just a rant against another player. You call others "rude" and "jerks". Name calling is a poor strategy that usually comes back to haunt everyone involved. Let's not go down that path please. The topic is good one, so please have it, but keep the personal animosity out of your posts (directed at all of you).
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
PF: your brining the issue outside the thread is a issue. My concern was your spefici targetting of me. You have being making situration unfun for many of us via your bullying. Your claiment is questionable. Why? You are trying to unsettle me. Thor and others have noted your... behaviour and demanded you stop. That "land agreement" was disagreed by me with me pointing out other lands. Heck you started the game as the USSR in Russia with plenty of land. Then you change nation and started to bully me by claiming right at me. Sorry but... your case is naught. You broke the CFC anti-jerk rules.
 
I could say the same for you. You're claiming directly at me.

Your argument, "claim elsewhere", can also be said to you. You can claim elsewhere just as well as I can.

Knowing our close proximity, it's a given there would be border disputes, but instead of using diplomacy and discussing a compromise, you jumped directly to "declare war".

That being said, all of this isn't some campaign to publicly point you out, ailedhoo. I brought this up because it goes with thor's post - the degeneration of the game from diplomacy into war.

As a bonus, my experience in MP2, GaP 2, and IOT: X have shown that the game becomes less about player-made diplomacy, and more about screenshotting conversations and PM's. This is utterly despicable and pathetic behavior, and shouldn't be part of these games. Screenshotting a private PM and posting it in the game thread is extremely OCC, rude, and breaks the game into an OCC-centered fight, instead of an IC one.

Screenshotting chats, like Sone's IOT chat, is also a problem. I recall saying a few things out of jest (such as I would 'genocide' Partitionanians if I was losing the war), and then I was accused of genocide the whole game. I didn't say the statement seriously, I didn't kill any citizens (until the last turn, and it wasn't even close to genocide-proportions).

The above 2 are things I'd like to see gone from IOTs forever. In rare cases, I'm sure it might help to screenshot a PM and send it to someone as evidence, but even then you can go into RP mode and say, "so and so offered a secret alliance with me".
 
Dude. You screenshot IOT chat conversations, and even went in on a private conversation and spied.
 
P_F. Stop it now. I'm flagging your posts for spam.
 
Moderator Action: As i said above, go ahead with your discussion, but keep the personal animosity out of your posts. If you cannot control your fingers across your keyboard, then don't post.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
I fail to see how my point was spam. I'm pointing out things that I think cause "The Death of IOT", including screenshotting PM's and chat logs. If there's a problem with that please point it out, and I'll make necessary changes. I'll stop calling people jerks, although I stand by what I said about rudeness. The attitude towards me has been quite rude and unkind, and it doesn't seem others have tried to take a diplomatic approach to the situation.
 
I fail to see how my point was spam. I'm pointing out things that I think cause "The Death of IOT", including screenshotting PM's and chat logs. If there's a problem with that please point it out, and I'll make necessary changes. I'll stop calling people jerks, although I stand by what I said about rudeness. The attitude towards me has been quite rude and unkind, and it doesn't seem others have tried to take a diplomatic approach to the situation.

You're one of the very few people that I have ever seen post chat and PM screenshots. christos, RedSpy and most infamously Mayor, who would screenshot a forged PM to frame me, are the only other ones that I can think of that have done that. In IOT at least. And I haven't seen more than one or two in the last half year except for yours.
 
It was a secret alliance request to you, and it would have been nice to remain secret. Although I agree, it didn't seal my fate or anything.

As for the screenshotting PM's, sonereal and red_spy had at least a dozen screenshots between them in MP2 alone. Jehoshua posted secret orders from his spies (when in-character, his character was in hiding and widely reputed to be dead). Christos pm'ed my entire secret plan to a few people in GaP 2 as well (which led to the downfall of my plan).

I'm just saying, when sonereal screencapped a comment I made and proudly proclaimed "everything in this chat is in-character", that's when the game went from in character to OCC finger pointing.
 
Posting screenshots from chat is a viable tactic, and I don't know why you guys are stamping your feet over it.


On the subject at hand; I don't like this reactionary sentiment. The games evolved over a natural course into what they are now. I predict that, if no game evolution had occured and we stayed with the same formula of early IOTs like III and IV, IOT would be a dead bookmark in the history of CFC.

You seem to claim that RP has died in favor of cold, hard gameplay; and while, yes, that is partially true, it is not completely accurate. If you look at MP2, or the recently released Universe Game, or any of the Iron and Bloods, you'll see that roleplay is well enough alive, even if it is not the central focus of the game. And, honestly - I prefer having gameplay as the focus of the game. If I want to tell a story, I'll write a story, or play a NES, or participate in IOTX; if I want to play a game, then I would rather have the more gameplay-oriented IOTs to play in.

What I am seeing here is an old-timer who can't handle the natural evolution of the game. Survival of the fittest.
 
Posting screenshots from chat is a viable tactic, and I don't know why you guys are stamping your feet over it.
Moderator Action: No it is not.
 
More nukes nukes, less QQ.

..."Taniciusfox's photocopied rulesets repeat over and over..."

Is that bad? IOT's improve as time passes, for example see the first IOTs, they were completely crap. He bases his new ruleset from old rulesets, but the new one improves.

...yadda yadda... IOT is not a wargame...

IOT's main goal is free, you could achieve world conquest, be superior on tech,create an ultra-alliance, and so on, plus creating good RPs, and by good I don't mean creating silly (and boring) chats between historical characters or game-based characters.

Another truth is IOT is a casual NES, so its rulesets must not be extremely complicated.

If created an IOT (which is difficult) I will use the rules of MPII, and perhaps other good rulesets, but that doesn't make me a copycat.
 
IOT's evolve over time. They become more and more complex. Is that bad? I do not think so. It is only natural that new will games will be more complex and with new Ideas.
 
Moderator Action: No it is not.

:Thread comes to a screeching halt:

Since when?

It has been for, well, I don't even know how long it has been. It has been a very long time.

You're one of the very few people that I have ever seen post chat and PM screenshots. christos, RedSpy and most infamously Mayor, who would screenshot a forged PM to frame me, are the only other ones that I can think of that have done that. In IOT at least. And I haven't seen more than one or two in the last half year except for yours.

Sonereal has. For the most part, screencapping is a viable tactic. That is why I tell people in the chat, "first rule, no discussion of secret war plans". Because it is how they get screwed over. Someone will post war plans, discuss their secret politcking, and whatnot in the chat, resulting in !!fun!! for all parties involved when the discussion is posted.

More nukes nukes, less QQ.

..."Taniciusfox's photocopied rulesets repeat over and over..."

Is that bad? IOT's improve as time passes, for example see the first IOTs, they were completely crap. He bases his new ruleset from old rulesets, but the new one improves.

We do end up having a period every few months where games look shockingly alike. It is why Shattered Europe and Valkyrie have a small to moderate sized player base that, for the most part, enjoy those games.

Another truth is IOT is a casual NES, so its rulesets must not be extremely complicated.

Don't know if you've noticed this, but there is no difference between IOT and NES at this point. Shattered Europe is pretty much a NES. Valkyrie a NES. Pretty much every IOT starting with IOT IV have been a NES.

I say this because, having played both, there are mechanics more complex in some IOTs that exist in some NES. The only clear difference I keep hearing over and over is that one has provinces and the other doesn't. But that isn't true either, because there isn't anything to define a NES as not supposing to have provinces and, in fact, some of them do.

If created an IOT (which is difficult) I will use the rules of MPII, and perhaps other good rulesets, but that doesn't make me a copycat.

Theft is makes all this possible. :lol:
*****

As for the topic of the thread, the problem is of course the idea of allowing any old player to enter a game. GMs that actually want to start classic IOTs need to be more restrictive in who they include.
 
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