The Deity Challenge Line-up #17 - Germany

[Blatc]

Sure, here's the T86 save.

View attachment AutoSave_0086 BC-0725.Civ5Save

 

[Blatc]

I'm downright astonished! I'm not unhappy to see my record torn to shreds, but completely flabberghasted that you took more than 50 turns off of it! I thought mine felt like it was too easy, but wow, you really made it look easy. Turn 86 Machinery...WOW! Do you have a T86 save I can play with?

EDIT: And would you consider contributing an LP of your tactics to the Domination thread I'm working on. Someone who can do what you have done would be very gratefully received on that thread

I never got into LPs. I realize a video would be very useful to see troop movement, which I think is one of my strengths, but I would be more interested in writing out strategy (though, I'd like to refine it a bit more). So, 'no' to a video, but 'yes' I'd be willing to contribute to the forums/strategy at some point, as I've certainly benefited from reading them, thanks to posters such as yourself.

 

[Gustavus Rex]

I played (poorly) up to ~T180 using Honour, before scrapping that game.
I gathered my thoughts on Germany and Raging barbarians (with Domination goal) and also worked on a 3-city, Liberty Domination opening (not specific to Germany or this map, other than Pangaea). The combination of replaying the map, some luck, and good execution of the general plan resulted in a turn 132 Domination Victory.

Spoiler :

Plan is 3 city NC, start warring with Composite Bows, aiming for DomV in sub-T185
Policies: Liberty, then Commerce
Religion - ignore
Cities - 2 tiles to right for capital; 2nd city by El Dorado. 3rd city further North by wine. The main purpose of placing the 3rd city here is to speed up troop movement between capitals, though it had a new luxury and horses so a reasonable build regardless.

Timeline
T29 established first TR, with Denmark (the general plan was to get a TR to my first target by T40, intending to attack 30 turns later)
T48 established second TR, with Pacal (general plan was 2nd TR goes to my 3rd target by T55)
T52 trade route FROM Copenhagen started
T56-57 (not sure why it's less than 30 turns) 1st trade route moved, now munich to Palenque (my 3rd target)
~T58 Construction
T58 finished Liberty! --> GE --> T59 3-city NC
T60 DOW Denmark
*They were warring with Russia to the East. I used my scout to pillage the road East of their capital, slowing the return of troops while I took the capital. I also sacrificed my scout to draw Copenhagens fire. This went extremely well.
T63 captured Copenhagen
T64 I built Pyramids; Great Wall built by unknown (only unknown left was Egypt; GW was in Thebes)
T68 Denmark wiped out Russia
Note: if you have 1 General with spread out troops, try to attack from 1 area, move the general, then launch 2nd round of attacks, so they all get combat bonus
T73 barb camp south of Copenhagen gave me Composite Bow
T84 capture Moscow
*shortly after I captured Novgorod. I specifically targeted the cities that were en route to Polynesia, leaving Denmark with 3 cities. In the peace deal, they gave me 2 of these cities (which I burned); they had upset enough other civs that their final city was captured (by a CS, who burned it)
T86 Machinery. I have 12 Composite Bows and enough gold (>1200) to upgrade them all!
*general plan was to continue with 2 armies after Machinery, with the Western army heading to Ethiopia and then working it's way East, likely to help with the final capital, and the Eastern army continuing East
T97 finished Civil Service; going for Chivalry next and might not bother with Theology/Education
T101 Western army captures Addis Ababa (3rd capital): Petra is only wonder
T104 Eastern army captures Honolulu (4th capital): Hanging Gardens, Temple of Artemis, & Terracotta Army wonders
T107 Chivalry done; going to ignore education and tech along bottom part of tree
T114 Western army captures Palenque (5th capital): 3 religious wonders, Oracle, University
T127 Eastern army captures London (6th capital): Chichen Itza, Great Library, Parthenon. Wanted to make peace immediately, but have to wait 2 turns due to deal with Egypt (it was a whopping 2gpt), which isn’t nullified by our war, apparently
T132 unified army captures Thebes: Great Wall Angkor, and Mausoleum

I only had a couple Crossbows earn level 4 upgrades (Logistics) towards the end; this is one of the drawbacks of a quick game that doesn't go into Honour and a player that didn't bother to build any barracks.

I'm very happy with how I executed things. I only ever attacked cities that were on the way to a capital and quickly built roads to connect my puppets (annexed first 2 captures, made the rest puppets) and, when possible, build ahead.

Spoiler :

Wow! Now that was the most impressive turn time in a long while!

 

[IronfighterXXX]

T86 Machinery.


T132 unified army captures Thebes

This game could be shown as example to this dude - 'Mel something', who made deity domination tier list some time ago and claimed that early tech lead in domination sucks,
because all what counts are promoted units (and put Babylon in lowest tier , below such great domination civs as Iroquois )

 

[stormtrooper412]

I didn't actually read that thread until now. Wow..

And while he didn't say it sucks, just not needed, he's still wrong. Less wrong but wrong nonetheless but oh well, I'm just the record keeper

 

[consentient]

This game could be shown as example to this dude - 'Mel something', who made deity domination tier list some time ago and claimed that early tech lead in domination sucks,
because all what counts are promoted units (and put Babylon in lowest tier , below such great domination civs as Iroquois )

What I'd LOVE to see, Ironfighter, is an attempt by you to try and beat T132

I have to add that Mel Uncensored made an LP of a Huns win around T125 on Deity, so he's not a chump

 

[stormtrooper412]

Oooooh boy, it's on

 

[Acken]

Had this map a ton of Cultural CS ? Blatc game is clearly leveraged by a T59 NC after finishing Liberty on T58. That's quite an exception.

Edit: There was El Dorado too for culture

 

[Olodune]

Had this map a ton of Cultural CS ? Blatc game is clearly leveraged by a T59 NC after finishing Liberty on T58. That's quite an exception.

I haven't played this map, but I did notice that he placed his 2nd city by El'Dorado on his 2nd playthrough. If that is +500g + the El'Dorado culture then the normal curve will be accelerated. Still a very nice game

Edit: cross-post with your update. Yeah. El'D, I think.

 

[consentient]

Even with a settled El Dorado, T132 is exceptional on this map. If Acken, IronfighterXXX or anyone else for that matter can beat it, I think that the DCL community should chip and get some kind of medal made

 

[Blatc]

The map (El D) was a significant boost to expansion and culture that helped accelerate my game plan, which was partly based on my #16 China game and basically boils down to: get (3-4 city) NC ASAP, then get Machinery ASAP (and have units and gold to upgrade, obviously). I believe I conquered a barb camp and became friends with 1 cultural cs before the NC, but did not give them gold. Micromanaging to ensure 3rd library was built in time, which meant limiting growth, was also a factor contributing to the NC turn time.

I settled my 2nd city in the same spot as I had on my 1st playthrough (Honour attempt), but likely got it there a few turns earlier as I knew most of the map. I fully acknowledge replaying helped speed up the game and realize I could not have done this on my first attempt.

Another key factor was the combination of luck and taking advantage of the opportunity, which was that the 1st civ I planned to attack had most of their units away at war. I pillaged their road with my scout (starting the war and slowing their troops) and then drew fire from their capital, killing my scout. I conquered their capital (presumably their strongest city) very quickly, which in a few turns (annexed, once they settled down) contributed science towards Machinery.

After that, building roads ahead and planning attacks to lead towards capitals was key. I was building a road in advance from my 3rd city to the 2nd civ I planned to conquer, and by T120 or so had a road connecting all my cities, leading to the final capital.

 

[IronfighterXXX]

What I'd LOVE to see, Ironfighter, is an attempt by you to try and beat T132

Well, I think it's totally possible (though probably would require map knowledge), but currently I take break from civ, when I come back who knows maybe I will try

(recently I played only science games, so domination could be refreshing)

I have to add that Mel Uncensored made an LP of a Huns win around T125 on Deity, so he's not a chump

Well, it only means that he learned how to play Huns on pangea and I agree that in this case you can forget about science, but we all know how Huns are broken.

T125 victory with huns is also not so impressive if you take into account that currently record is T69 and I think T132 with Germany is definitely better (but of course it depends on map)

 

[peddroelm]

T271 domination win

panzer flood

Spoiler :

youtube playlist .. Last videos should be up tomorrow .

 

[SooHongLoo]

Nicely Done Ped!! I tried to watch the LP but had enough after 20 mins of hearing the F word too many times over and over. I don't remember you being so blue but I think I only watched your America LP way back when.

 

[peddroelm]

Nicely Done Ped!! I tried to watch the LP but had enough after 20 mins of hearing the F word too many times over and over. I don't remember you being so blue but I think I only watched your America LP way back when.

Must've been frustrated on the pesky Danes killing my units .. You could try skipping an episode or two (danish war didn't last that long) or try to watch at least the final episode (the mighty panzer flood)..

 

[stormtrooper412]

I kind of want to replay this map so finally try out the Panzers properly

 

[peddroelm]

Can't have proper Bismark without panzer spam .

Spoiler :

 

[stormtrooper412]

he literally tanked those

 

[fimbul]

Domination on T238 with ever dependable artillery

Spoiler :

second playthrough - first time stole worker from Denmark and fought a 100 turn war... Wish I had known that harald is in the Oda and Attila camp of 'dont steal a worker from'

Replayed with same opening except no worker steal - raging barbarians were irritating but cant waste a game whereby you find El Dorado on T5!

4 City Lib, pyramids, GE NC on T61 (i think). Machinary T90 - Harald declared T91 to save me some warmonger hate. Copenhagen T102; was intending to take Aarhus and then march on Moscow, but Cathy then declared on Harald. Not wanting a threesome I marched my crossbows to Palenque (his crap religion was irritating me) and took it on T113.

Aarhus was taken 3 times by cathy which earnt her the ire of every AI - Hawaii declared on her - Moscow fell but recaptured. Being greedy I marched my crossbows down to Moscow and declared - Took it on T129, and Aarhus on T130.

Apparently you cant take so many cities without people hating you but what Harald did surprised me. down to 1 city he double DOW me with Pacal, then bribes hawaii to declare me. Not done with his suicide attempt 1, he then double DOW cathy with Ethiopia. Is this the AI way of trying to retire from a game???

Spent 20 turns killing Hawaii troops (he had the great wall and won't make peace so I just sat back), until Cathy killed Harald. No longer public enemy no 1, whole world (except me) declared on her - CS took and razed Harald's old city but I honestly wasnt too keen to ressurect a suicidal AI.

Teched to Artillery on T180 - sweep begins by pacifying the backyard of AA(T198). Much fun was had destroying the Haiwaiian Snitch (serious on continents that guy is annoying), and Honolulu fell T219. Capital was pumping out artilleries in 2 turns thanks to the ridiculousness of Hanse. England had an airforce but too busy bombing Egypt - Royal navy useless since I had no coastal cities. London falls on T234 & Thebes follows T238.

Social Policies: Full Lib, Full comm, Rat (sec), 6 Autocracy. Happiness was through the roof thanks to protectionism and militarism, but I am still not sure if Rat first is better for an Artillery sweep on pangea.

Wonders: Pyramids, Big Ben, Brandenburg Gate. Copenhengen - Zeus Statue, Palenque - GL, Panthenon, CI, HS, Boro, angkor wat. Moscow - TOA, Alhambra.

WC: WF (won), IG (won), nothing else of importance.

Rel: never bothered, Russia/Ethiopia/Mayan religions were bad, Egpyt/hawaii didnt spread theirs to me.... some catherdals but otherwise pointless.

I replayed this a third time to see if Trad opener first was good because of abundance of culture - disaster, Machinary delayed 10 turns, very tough fight with harald.

 

[Sclb]

T288 Dom V

Went for Panzer style late game domination since it's Germany and was able to destroy the world without too much resistance with autocracy's Lightning warfare and Clausewitz.

Spoiler :

Found out about my Danish neighbor and went into 100 turn war with him after stealing worker, I knew he wouldn't settle for peace, so I forward settled him on El Dorado with the 500g for an easy defensible position. Lucky he offered peace around the time he got berserkers. Neither side lost any cities. But it hurt him more as he was stuck with 2 cities with no place to expand, while I had all the southwestern part of the map to myself for 7 city liberty start. There wasn't many barbarians that got converted due to my quick expanding. Most of them were donated to CS afterwards as they are mostly useless brutes and not worth upgrade gold.

Egypt was spamming wonders and running away with culture. After the peace with Harold, I bribe him constantly to both weaken him and keep him off of me so that I can build peacefully until the time to take him out. Meanwhile Liz was extremely aggressive and went to war almost everyone and also got first pick autocracy. Luckily she didn't have good coastal city for prora which I built. I was friends with everyone except Harold, Cathy and Liz for some RA. Eventually Liz was friends with me after I started warring.

Eventually Harold lost a few cities to Cathy but managed to capture Palenque from Pacal, and Liz managed to eliminate both the Mayans and Polynesians. On T248, I finally declared war on Harold to start the world conquest phase after Cathy had weakened him significantly to help speed it up. I had landships with artillery support against his outdated units. Made peace with him after liberating the Mayans and all his captured CS, while one of his city was worth 6k gold when I sold it to Liz after Liz offered DoF to me because of common ideology and fighting common enemy.

Went for Cathy and Haile at the same time with 2 different panzer army next. Both fell quickly due to a simultaneous war with Liz which weakened them. Next was the time for the inevitable backstab against England after trying to borrow as much gold as possible. One of the army went for Honolulu liberating some CS/cities on the way, and the other army went for Thebes. At the same time Liz had most of her army focused on a war on Egypt, so Thebes was at low hp when my army got to it. After that, both armies converged on London to end the game.

WC was easily controlled since Liz had every CS that I don't control, world ideology kept happiness high, WF was easy with with many cities, and also landmark/WW culture was passed, in addition to arts funding to slow down Russia's science.

SP: Full liberty, Full honor, Full commerce, 6 autocracy, rationalism opener.

It would be an easy Diplo V on the next world leader vote anyway, with every CS allied and additional vote on world ideology and 2 liberated civs.

The real limiting factor for the conquest speed was the lack of oil on this map. I had only 1 natural source of oil and it was an offshore oil requiring an extra refrigeration tech to get. It is strange considering my massive size empire.