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The Deity Challenge Line-up #20 - Spain - Valentine day Resurrected

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by stormtrooper412, Feb 13, 2015.

  1. the northman

    the northman Chieftain

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    Thanks, consentient! And thanks for the map. You're right, the Frigates definitely shaved a lot of turns off.

    Spoiler :
    Maria


    Was deep in the jungle and had the GW and cities in the way I'd have to burn. Would have been a slog killing her over land, even with altitude trained arty ;)

    Spoiler :
    Dido


    Wasn't very strong, but was far away and on a fairly inaccessible peninsula.
     
  2. tombakerwho

    tombakerwho Chieftain

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    Don't have much time to play, too many things to do in real life. Probably won't be able to participate regularly in the future, the maps come to frequently for me.

    Easiest map so far, but still a lot of fun. :goodjob: It must have taken a long time to roll this map, so the effort is much appreciated. ;) Shows you the limits of what is possible.

    I recorded a silent video, if someone is interested, then I will post.

    Comparing to other posted screenshots, it looks like I have an extra city. I wanted to make some more on the other continent, but then I would have never finished.

    Spoiler :


    Really early everything - T92 Education, 160 plastics :crazyeye:

    Lots of wonders - Hanging Gardens, Petra, Leaning Tower, Forbidden Palace, Porcelain Tower, Statue of Liberty.

    Extra scientists at the end, not sure if that means I could win sooner or not, it seems like you are sort of locked in to the world congress vote timings at some point.





     
  3. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    Well done, Tom. I for one would really like to see the video :)
     
  4. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

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    Ooops thats Diplomatic VC ...not Domination... That changes everything! Oh sure... take over the number one Diplomatic DCL spot and run out on us because of Real Life lol!!
     
  5. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

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    After nine days spent away from the computer after a great start, I had an 8 hour layover in Cancun and 5 hour flight to get this thing finished.

    t275 CV

    Spoiler :

    I sent the Warrior West and found Mt. Kilamanjaro very quickly. An early pop ruin allowed me to buy that settler around t4 (IIRC). I had to wait a bit to buy the tiles as I settled Barcelona on the coast, but quickly took One With Nature and founded the holy order of Cave Diving pretty early (Tithe, Pagodas, Feed the World, Religious Texts). Finished Tradition quickly and went religious route and got Sacred Sites before venturing into Rationalism.

    The game was very peaceful early, although Dido pulled a backstab with inadequate troops so my archers got some XP practice. Built Petra the hard way on t63ish, so I basically had the equivalent of 2 capitals early. I founded Seville and Cordoba pretty quickly thereafter to grab the resource-full interior. I decided to make Barcelona my science city (mountain) so was able to build NC t75ish while building Oracle in Madrid (gotta luv 2 strong early cities. Even by detouring to Xbows, I still got unis pre-t100, so this was a very good start.

    First World Council vote came pretty early and I proposed World's Fair. I had so much production early and had 4 workers chopping so I was able to easily win it even while doing stuff like finishing Ironworks in Madrid and building Sistine in Barcelona.

    Screen Shot 2015-02-22 at 3.21.32 PM.jpg

    This was probably my strongest start ever on Deity at this point. I decided to go for a CV even without opening up Aesthetics until very late. I got first ideology by a longshot and went Order. Cathy and Maria T. followed me into Order which couldn't have worked out better. Cathy was the strongest civ militarily and I didn't take over tech lead from her until I Oxforded Radio. She had the strongest religion and I had to waste a couple of GP's on keeping Barcelona interested in Cave Diving. Thankfully, Lhasa and Jerusalem were game-long allies so I had a ton of faith.

    Maria T, in the meantime, was keeping wedding crashers busy, as it seemed like every decade she was co-opting a new CS. I thought I got out exploring the other land-masses early, but I'd show up and the CS would already be wearing Austrian Red. In other words, having these two powerhouses follow me into Order was a great break. Everyone else was a pretty good trading partner……..with the exception of Wu. For whatever reason, that Chinese b*tch was a pain in the a$$ the entire game.

    Cathy asked me to DoW England with her and I wanted to grab a couple of Lizzy's archeological sites, so I agreed, fought for about 10 turns and did some digging, then made an easy peace. About 15 turns later, Russia had steamrolled through York and London. Lizzy then built the Louvre in Hastings, so I DoW'd her, let Cathy do the heavy lifting, then took the city on t225 with a couple GWB's and Tercios.

    Screen Shot 2015-02-23 at 7.34.06 AM.jpg

    I did settle a 6th city to grab GBR with a Conquistador and sent a missionary over to get the pantheon double faith. This turned out to be a pretty nice city despite the late settlement. I just wish I had remembered to build an aqueduct there much earlier.

    After that, it was just beelining Internet, doing some theming work, then just waiting and watching my tourism grow…….except for stupid China. She just wouldn't give me open borders all game no matter what I offered. She wouldn't convert to Order no matter how much unhappiness she was getting. I didn't complete Aesthetics so couldn't buy any more GM's. I guess I could have DoW'd her and sent a GM to her that way, but I had wasted mine on theming Broadway and Sidney OH. I had the other 5 remaining civs influenced by t245 but China wasn't even close. I finally got control of WC again and got IG passed, but Austria kicked my butt on that one.

    Screen Shot 2015-02-23 at 10.17.15 AM.jpg

    That delayed the win another 5+ turns. This really should have been a sub t250 win, even with my lack of experience with CV. I made several mistakes, namely going for a couple of extra happiness Order tenets instead of finishing Aesthetics. I built 6 World Wonders in Madrid and 4 National Wonders. 5 WW's in Barcelona and 5 NW's. Pretty good balance and kind of fun to do it that way. Population growth was blah, as I was focused on production trade routes early and tourism trade routes later on. I still finished #2 in population.

    Oh, and I didn't find FoY until Satellites.

    Screen Shot 2015-02-23 at 10.36.17 AM.jpg
    Screen Shot 2015-02-23 at 10.36.50 AM.jpg
    Screen Shot 2015-02-23 at 10.37.08 AM.jpg
    Screen Shot 2015-02-23 at 10.38.00 AM.jpg
    Screen Shot 2015-02-23 at 10.38.27 AM.jpg

     
  6. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

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    Welcome Back!! Sure... you go on a nice hiatus and now you come back... beat my CV turn time... Post up a detailed and superior write up compared to mine.... whats next?? I know your gonna show me up on the DCL 21 India game and the IDS 8 Ottoman game where I booked 2 complete losses to the incompetent AI :) !! Oh, and stormtrooper412 posted up the IDS 8 Ottoman game but we are reserving your spot when you decide to post up the Netherlands map!

    All in good fun! I left your player pages untouched since you were afk. I'll have them updated in the next few days but I did plug your CV into the Leaderboard. What is next for me?? Another Loss since the Deity Ethiopia AWC 3 Game is next on my list! Good times... Good times!
     
  7. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    WB Shark Diver. Why Order and not Freedom?
     
  8. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

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    Spoiler :
    Gracias, twas a muy bueno trip, but absolutely exhausting. Estoy muy consado.

    I'll try to circle around and play the IDS game if time allows. That India game will be next on my list……..not sure if I've ever won with them and I don't particularly relish not having culture ruins nor Shaka games. The AWC concept seems interesting……sort of like how I played before finding this site.

     
  9. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

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    Spoiler :

    Thanks. To be honest, it was sort of a coin flip between the two, but since I almost always go Freedom, I thought I'd try something different. Also, because my population wasn't very strong, I wasn't sure I'd be able to take advantage of working the specialist slots Freedom excels at. In this case, it worked out very well as the biggest 2 threats followed me into Order. I actually have the save for when I chose ideologies…..maybe I'll try to replay going Freedom to see which is quicker.

     
  10. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    I know the least about Order, given its supposed association with Science victories. I hardly ever pick it. I wonder if one of the pro players has done the math regarding Cultural Revolution and DotP vs. Media Culture. ?
     
  11. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    Theoretically it can go even higher than Freedom but on Deity you're unlikely to have more happiness than anyone else and +34% to all compared to +34% to other Order civs simply wins. What I want to know is does Autocracy work with CVs, is the 50% war against common enemy the modifier PER common enemy or is it a binary thing. Either way, it has the potential to be quite good and all you need to do is create a late game stalemate
     
  12. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

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    Spoiler :

    I think both are situational for either VC. I usually go Freedom for SV, as the 6 FL's are just perfect for a turtling strategy (because you are beelining Replaceable Parts your 6 Infantrymen will be OP for a long time). Had I gone Freedom in the Spain game, I could have probably used them to take out more cities and steal more tourism, but there really weren't any obvious geographical targets and I was in no position to ramp up a military capable of taking more than a few cities.

    One other reason was that I built a few Tercios and so already had the backbone of my army and didn't feel like FL's were that much of an improvement. I was beelining Internet so wasn't going to be anywhere near Artillery and would be somewhat late to flight.
     
  13. tombakerwho

    tombakerwho Chieftain

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  14. the northman

    the northman Chieftain

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    I'm pretty sure the 50% modifier does not stack with extra enemies. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, because that would make Cult of Personality truly OP.

    Autocracy does work well with a domination assisted CV: kill the cultural runaways and take their great works, while using futurism (preferably taken before you produce any musicians), and Cult of Personality (organize some wars) to over-take the rest. Finish with a concert or two.
     
  15. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Deity

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    If you want to use autocracy for CV then use futurism.. Other than that, autocracy offers more happiness than culture.
     
  16. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    There was this debate a while ago that the science ideology was Order. I and a couple others were making the argument that Freedom was competitive.
    After a lot of claims never supported by evidence from those claiming Order was a no brainer, the results started to show for Freedom with me getting a better time than Order using the savegame from IronfighterXXX and later on IronfighterXXX getting his sub200 with Freedom. And on this map I got 201 and then 194 with Freedom. Nowadays you see a lot more people making a SV with freedom. I wouldn't say it's necessarily better but it's at least as good, tries with both often give me very similar times with either.

    For CV I largely prefer Freedom because media culture works better on deity than the unreliable bonuses of Order.
     
  17. tombakerwho

    tombakerwho Chieftain

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    @Acken

    I have not had a sub-200 science victory, so there I don't have a lot of personal, empirical evidence to back it up. But, all of my fastest science victories have been Freedom. These tend to be in the 220-230 turn range.

    For what its worth, I tend to pair Order with aggressive mid-games, but Freedom with Turtling. I use Order when the AI is unfriendly, has no money, or when I have been aggressive mid-game. By aggressive, I mean either extracting money and/or cities via peace deals, sometimes to gain BPT. So, I tend to use it when I need to build the parts anyway.
     
  18. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    I personally would have thought Freedom was quicker, hence my used of the word 'supposed'. I'm not sure what Order is good for really, other than licking the AIs ring piece. But if I've made it to the Modern Era and have any chance of winning, then a bit of unhappiness is an interesting challenge that I welcome, rather than anything else. Also, for CVs, which I play more often than SVs by a mile, I seem to never have happiness problems.
     
  19. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    Well Order has some stuff going its way, it gets reduced costs, faster factories and science bonus from it and a GS in tier 3. The bonuses for SV are obvious and I've seen good results from Order domination due to the AI being more likely to do it. Also faster factories help gearing up for modern warfare.
     
  20. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    So do you think that a DomV consisting of tech-ing to the future and using Bombers/Tanks/X-Coms/Nukes would be better going Order than Autocracy? And would you Oxford something other than Radio? I've always used Autocracy or Freedom for my DomVs.
     

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