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The Deity Challenge Line-up #24 - Arabian nights

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Acken, Mar 19, 2015.

  1. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    Well I lost three times. First time I got attacked from all sides, second time I got boxed in and had nowhere to expand, and the third time I got overrun by rebels because for all the hours I put in this game, I still have no control over my happiness. I'm definitely taking a break from Civilization
     
  2. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    How many cities did you build stormtrooper? What style of play were you going for? Happiness has never been an issue in my games so I wonder if there is some way of helping you?
     
  3. Nigel_Tufnel2

    Nigel_Tufnel2 King

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    I struggle with happiness in my Deity games too - one habit I developed years ago (on Emperor) is to always check the trade screen every turn, and always buy/trade for an extra lux when available. I am always reading about how people sell their lux and buy _____, but I never have much extra cash, as I'm always "reinvesting" lux sales. (This Arabia game was different, as Bazaars create so many extra copies.) Usually I only make money on strategics, or, at some point, on extra lux. I try to bank the happy, and end up with early GAges.

    I have been playing Liberty more lately (I finally kind of have the hang of it), and it is awkward to not grow cities as much. I have been focusing more on Markets, especially if I have more gold-producing tiles, to influence CSs with that cash (and quests, of course). And, of course, early Circuses and Coliseums become a must.

    I always like a happy buffer much larger than the better Deity players - in all my games, there are several periods where I go from happy crunches to suddenly +12-15. Lux trades come from nowhere, or a key tech comes around... Plus I can't see playing w/o happy religious buildings. They always seem like game-makers to me. And part of why I love Neuschwanstein so much. :D
     
  4. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    It's actually quite mind boggling, I went 5 city full Piety + DF + Jesuit Education + Full Rationalism. I was still miles behind everyone else but I just started to pick up and snowball really well, I had the Circus Maximus and Zoos in every city + Mosques and a really really heavy bunch of CS luxes, I still managed to hit negative double digits and had rebels all over my land, that's literally the FIRST time it ever happened, so the simple explanation could be that I'm simply losing it :lol:

    Plan was to use massive amount of faith to buy probably 4 GS (which is around 2-3 more than I can usually afford in a SV game) so it would balance out but still, I managed to fail miserably :/
     
  5. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    Can you show me a screenshot of your happiness breakdown?
     
  6. adcarrymaokai

    adcarrymaokai Emperor

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    It might have been due to ideological pressure, though even in my science games where I am the only Freedom picker who builds no culture or tourism, I fail to get below 0 happiness.

    What were your other policies?
     
  7. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    It was ideology pressure indeed. I was struggling with happiness all game and once I got hit by that, I knew it was time to go, oh well
     
  8. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    For peaceful games, I nominate Freedom as the World Ideology as soon as I'm able, and pay everyone who will (all the neutral civs and even sometimes the reps of the other ideologies) to vote for the resolution. This means that ideological pressure is countered with a single, if expensive, gambit.

    Since I don't pay for bribes most games, and I don't have to pay so much to keep CS allied (if I'm Harun), I can use my megabucks for this vote.

    Of course, I'll have used the very first WC vote to get my religion as the World Religion, too. And the first CS priority are cultural CS, so overall, the pressure is low, if existent.

    In my play through of this DCL I actually had problems at the end with cash, and to sell a lot of happiness buildings to have enough money to be sure of victory. Didn't want to go to the next round of voting because someone else WOULD have won a SV before then. I'm sure you know who it was.
     
  9. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    Alright, in a stunning twist of events, I went from -10 to +15 happiness thanks to 3 Zoos, CM, a pair of CS luxes I thought I had already and Universal Suffrage.

    From the top now:
    Spoiler :

    I had a set gameplan in mind so I went for it. At one point I thought about Petra, and, well, that ended as well as expected, turn 56 Jesus....

    So I told my production off and focused on gold and faith. I bought 5 Unis for 160 thunders each, in a single turn and then did the same with Schools and RLabs. Since I got Education around 120, I was actually not doing that badly, Schools around 170, RLabs around 200. It was then I got hit by ideology as you can see so I had to shell out the cash, buckle down and wait for Universal Suffrage instead of finishing Rationalism.

    However, it was one of those games where the AIs actually know how to tech properly and France, Korea, Shoshone, Germany (and me) all got to Atomic fairly quickly and boom, it was already UN time. Somehow I ended up being the host because the CS owners spread themselves and I ended up with the most votes. With 10 turns to vote, I realised this would be the small window I was waiting for, since I wouldn't catch Korea this time, he already had all three boosters and has just completed the CN Tower. So I moved my spies out, had them wear fancy suits and try to convince everyone to vote for me. Oh and I had around 9000 gold in the bank, the final screen suggests a bit of overkill but I had to be sure. What an utterly broken way to win


     

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  10. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    Judging by your screenshot, I'd say that you're not making enough use of Mercantile CS. It's actually cheaper over the course of the game to ally them earlier and keep their interest with quests like roads and trade routes sometimes, than to buy them all in one go. Because that way you enjoy the fruits of influence for a lot longer. If I want to win Diplo by T275, I want to have all the CS allied by T175, personally.
     
  11. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    Absolutely. But when I saw I wouldn't catch up in tech, diplo was plan B. I suppose goint Patronage would have made it easier but like I said, it wasn't planned. That strategy however, only works if Mongolia/Greece/Austria/Venice/Siam are not in the game
     
  12. Nigel_Tufnel2

    Nigel_Tufnel2 King

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    Those surprise DVs are wacky!
     
  13. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    O I C. I didn't know that Diplo was not your intended plan. Sorry if I skipped where you said that. But really, I think that CS alliances are the most undervalued part of the game by the community at large. If you can get 2/3 or more of the CS under your alliance by the time that ideologies come by, your chances of winning are increased many fold.

    Furthermore, when you're aiming for as fast an SV as possible, it will be the thing that is probably most neglected, because the choices you will have to make about how to spend the precious gold, will be too difficult.

    To that end, unless one is a really top player, it might be better to shoot for the T280-300 SV and be sure of victory than go for a fast one and run into problems. IMO, of course. :)
     
  14. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    you can say that again :lol: honestly, I feel this way of winning is almost as broken as Small Piety strat, which it basically was except I didn't bother going Patronage


    I've had some rather nice SVs in this DCL series, Poland being by far the easiest, and honestly, happiness is the biggest limiting factor, I've seen how potent a Religious CS ally can be in the Byzantium DCL
     
  15. nmp0098

    nmp0098 Chieftain

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    Spoiler :

    When I saw the map rated easy, I was thinking culture (assisted by the faith) or maybe domination (if easy meant a lot of horses and hammers... not so much). Well, I got handily beat to Petra, lost the Oracle by 3 turns, and lost the Sistine by 2 turns. After that, I was pretty annoyed and just went Science since at least I had a decent population. After nearly bankrupting myself buying public schools and research labs, I actually had a pretty decent finish time. This has me re-thinking how much gpt I need to keep in reserve, as borrowing down to 20gpt to get my schools up in 1 turn (down to 50 for labs) seemed stronger than building a couple and keeping my income up. I mis-timed almost everything this game, so I was expecting something in the 270-280 range.

    I decided to settle in place because I saw good rivers and what I thought were enough hills. This area of the map really suffered from a lack of production bonus/strategic resources. I sympathize with earlier posters who were continually dismayed when new techs failed to reveal resources. My capital's production was terrible until I installed a hydro plant. I opened scout/monument/scout/archer/settler/settler. My warrior found one faith CS, and my first scout found a second so I scored DF on turn 11. My warrior hit an upgrade ruin, and sniped two workers from Pocatello. The first worker saw that a barb had captured a CS worker, so I made peace and liberated two CS workers in two turns. That got me some extra early faith and a free warrior that proved very useful.

    I built the early archer to send South and clear the barb camp by the faith mountain, which I very much wanted to settle. Pedro actually cleared the camp, but I spotted a settler unguarded on the edge of his borders. Presumably he was going to rendezvous with the spearman two tiles away and settle my faith mountain. Yoink. I stayed at war with Pedro until I settled my cities. I snagged two more workers from him. After I finished my second settler I bought a 3rd one to claim the mountain area and block France from expanding into my desert. Right after I plopped Damascus, I was a gifted a warrior in that city. Pedro sent another settler towards that city, and I was able to intercept it with the warrior and kill the escort once my archer caught up. That gave me 6 free workers and a temporarily annoyed Pedro. We were best buds once I gave Mongolia 2!! gpt to DOW him, and he had to send his trade routes to me.

    My early scouting suffered from keeping my second scout close to pester Pedro, so I didn't find either cultural CS until after optics. That hurt a bit, and a lack of social policies hurt me all game. I didn't hit a culture ruin, so the early monument helped me into tradition. I went for the wonder bonus after the growth bonus, because my happiness was OK with lots of unique luxes and I was really feeling the lack of hammers. After the settlers, I built a caravan to get some science for Currency/Petra, and it helped me stay friendly with France the entire game. Unfortunately Petra went on turn 60, and I had only started on turn 59. No biggie, I still got my 4 city NC built in the turn 80 range, and had Education on T106. I did switch from the Oracle to the NC, but I still annoyed when I got beat by 3 turns. I bought all of my Unis, and bee-lined Acoustics. Sejong went for Acoustics too, and beat me to finishing the Sistine Chapel by 2 turns despite me throwing every hammer I had at it and rushing in a workshop 4 turns after I started (needed the tech, obviously). I even worked the engineer. After that, I immediately built another settler for no other reason than to send a send cargo ship to the capital, claim the space to the North, and totally wreak havoc on my game.

    I should mention at this point, I settled my second city on the marble, so I missed the horses and abandoned any thoughts of abusing CA for a few brazilwoods or chateaus. I actually felt very safe with DOFs from France and Brazil (and everybody else except Pocatello and Ghenghis, the latter because I refused the offer. He was eventually dogpiled and rolled by America), and tactical control of the mountain pass into France. I built two CA, but after that I pretty much got away with a skeleton army of garrisons and a fortified spearman in the pass. I bought the gem hill as soon as I could, and the pass a little later. Napoleon occasionally had enough troops in the area for me to pay attention, but never amassed an army. I was extremely fortunate that both France and Brazil failed to found, so I easily spread my religion to their territory and had that green modifier going most of the game.

    After I built the 4th settler, I had Rationalism and saw the Porcelain Tower still available, but I got beat by 4-5 turns to that one too. After that, I burned a faith GE on Big Ben and the SoL. They were both safe, policy-locked wonders, but I was not in the mood for anything funny to happen and both of their benefits came in very handy at the time. I never made it to Mercantilism, so Big Ben really helped with research labs. That city was a boat anchor. I rushed in a workshop and fed it up with a food cargo, working a lot of hills/mines at the start, but I still didn't have a library/university in the city in time to prebuild Oxford before the Worlds Fair started. I got second in the WF despite going full bore with all of my cities, and I really needed that culture boost! Because my production was abysmal and Oxford wasn't ready, I researched Industrialism and Chemistry before I Oxforded Radio and tore off to Plastics. It took a little while for anyone else to research Industrialism and for the CSs to then get coal going, but I hammered in factories as soon as I could.

    My string of bad wonder decisions continued with Hubble. I flat out didn't need it. I bought 3 GSs with faith, and had plenty more even after bulbing ST and Plastics. I bulbed 2 more getting to Satellites, and had started Apollo in Damascus. Instead, I should have switched my cities over to gold production about 4-5 turns from the end of bulb fest, because gold for parts held me up. Worse, I didn't finish the Apollo program until 4 turns after I had all the tech I needed. The two GSs from Hubble were spent researching Lasers and Stealth, mainly because they cost gpt and you have to select something to research. I should have just built Apollo in my capital and skipped Hubble, or at least used a faith GE on it (I had enough faith for a 3rd GE, and even a 4th GS at the end). I only had 4 turns left on one of the Boosters in my capital when I stopped production and bought it, so extra gold, a different ending build in my capital, or enough culture for Mercantilism would have really shaved some turns off of this win. Or just not attempting all those culture wonders and thinking Science all game. LToP and PT were there for the taking if I had prioritized them.

    In retrospect, I had plenty of signs that Sejong went right into Acoustics and was going for a CV. I should have gone for the Leaning Tower after Education, which I had enough tech to do with Sejong looking to Architecture. I could have then used the GE on Uffizi, and been in position to build the Louvre if no one else opened Exploration. Even then, CV would have been hard with Sejong wonderwhoring and France/Brazil in the game, but I think it was doable.
     

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  16. Nutella

    Nutella Chieftain

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    New here to the forum. Can anyone just jump in and attempt these challenges?
     
  17. nmp0098

    nmp0098 Chieftain

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    I did, and no has told me to stop :) From what I've read, there's a large variance in skill level and play styles, with everybody making of the game what they want. I've learned a lot comparing my early decisions to others and seeing how the results played.
     
  18. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    Yes. The more the merrier! :)
     
  19. Nutella

    Nutella Chieftain

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    T250 SV

    Shout-out to acken for all his LP videos, helped me a lot.

    Spoiler :
    Social Policies: Tradition(6) Rationalism(6) Commerce(2)
    Ideology: Freedom(6) - acken's freedom science guide
    Stole 2 workers from Brazil, 2 workers from Sidon, and 1 worker from barb camp.
    4 Cities NC: rush buy library in main & 4th city to help speed up the process.
    Did not attempt petra, feels like AI always gets them before T60, didn't want to waste time.
    Rush buy 3 universities, hard build 1 (didn't have enough $$).
    Rush buy all public schools and research labs.
    Use first 3 trade routes for food, the rest for gold.
    Religion: desert folklore - tithe - pagodas - mosques - religious texts
    Crazy faith generation this game, bought pagodas/mosques for all cities, planted two prophets, bought an inquisitor, and still had 9000 faith end game.
    Bought 4 GS with the 9000 faith.
    Did not plant any academy.
    Bulb 1 GS for plastics.
    2nd place at world's fair, weak production in cities mean I didn't even try to get 1st place, just stopped right after 350 hammers.
    Did not build pisa (lost to korea halfway) or porcelain tower (did not attempt).
    Did build big ben and statue of liberty.


    Spoiler :





     
  20. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    I may be late for the 30 mars game. I have not yet attempted to make a map and I'm not sure If I will tomorrow. I also have a few ideas but I'd like to do a little brainstorming for 1st april fool map (on the thread or send me a MP). So propose some stuff and if I see something that could be very surprising and silly I'll think about it.
    Remember that the civ must be one not already played and some of the settings must remain standard (size, no mod etc).
     

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