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The Deity Challenge Line-up #29 - Dido's swimming pool

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Acken, May 10, 2015.

  1. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    You mean 2 settlers, 3 warriors, 2 workers, a scout, a whole load of tech and a ton of gold and other advantages?

    That would give sub-T150 results, surely?
     
  2. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    I'm inclined to believe so, yes. You'd be able to speedrun the map easily, not sure if you'd get into 150 range but it would still be insane, stuff costs less, tech takes less, you can spam SPs, units, and wonders. I'm surprised nobody got interested in that yet
     
  3. cazaderonus

    cazaderonus Actual Dad.

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    tempting !
     
  4. Redaxe

    Redaxe Emperor

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    I lost to a SV. 2 civs were ahead of me another 6 turns and I would have been equal. But that isn't really an accurate representation as the AI doesn't really think long term to pursue a particular victory type as far as I know. On Diety it just has a head start and is likely to get everything ahead of you. I'm sure those AIs if they played optimally could have won by turn 300 if they were trying.

    Buying the nuke was sufficient. That AI to my East had a whole navy and army moving toward me. Being different ideology I knew my number was up so it was lucky I had that uranium there.
    You can also try denouncing an AI when their carpet is moving toward you but that is unpredictable and may only buy you a few turns. Usually it will also make them hate you for the rest of the game.
    When I got the nuke all the AIs became afraid. In fact
    Spoiler :
    Japan
    as soon as they'd turn their navy around actually asked me for a declaration of friendship! I guess having a nuke positioned right in range of their capital made them think twice. They still had a strong dislike toward me but they didn't have uranium so there was nothing they could do about it!
     
  5. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    I agree with these points. I still find it a very interesting as to how the AI wins. An AI winning by SV means that at least maybe the player had something of a chance. If an AI is pursing CV, my experience is that my only hope is that there is another AI in the game with high culture. It does seem to me that the leading AI will only start on SS parts just because they can, not because an SV was their plan from the start.
     
  6. Redaxe

    Redaxe Emperor

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    Yeah they obviously have some sort of priority built in that selects things in particular order. But it seems a fairly vague concept and things generally get built when they get built. Although a spaceship part does be a top priority item whereas things like a cruise missile or Neuschawantein I have not once seen an AI build.

    Every civ starts puts a priority on Apollo mission and on building spaceship parts as they become available although they might delay them for a bit to build a nuclear submarine or a rocket artillery.
    But where the AI falls down is on planning - focusing the entire civ's resources to win that victory is still something they cannot do. Same reason why i civ with 30,000 gold won't buy out every citystate to win a diplomatic victory.
     
  7. beest

    beest Chieftain

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    I got a domination victory on turn 302.

    Spoiler :


    I normally really don't like playing Dido, but on this map the free harbors were great. I settled the three islands west of the capital, and the expansion east. The opening was rather peaceful. Sulejman and Catherine were keeping each other busy north, and Japan was very friendly this game. The neighbouring capitals did not seem to very easy to take with frigates so I teched all the way to battleships. I grabbed istanbul (turn 231), and sold it to Russia for 175 gpt, nice. I had just taken autocracy (as did my big buddy Japan) and after adding a carrier with some additional fighter, and some subs I sailed out and grabbed the Korean capital (turn 249). The idea was that this would relieve ideological pressure from Korea (which had taken freedom). Actually, freedom got passed as world ideology instead. Tired of fighting -40 unhappiness I decided to swith to freedom. Of course this messed up relations with Japan, so they became my next target and I grabbed their capital turn on 277. I then finished the game with Xcoms and nukes. Social policies, next to tradition and ratio I took 2 policies in exploration (opening + the happiness one). I did not have enough culture for more, but I think these two polices were very useful. This map does remind me why I hardly every play maps with too much water, of course the AI is in combat, but in naval combat this just become ridiculous, it hardly every even fires a shot...



     
  8. Nutella

    Nutella Chieftain

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    Wow the barbs on this map ...... crazy.
     
  9. tarafran

    tarafran Warlord

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    DIPLO @ 352
    Spoiler :
    Epic game Liberty 3 cities going for science but got sidetracked by japan DoW.at the end I was the only one with Uranium and nukes. Only used one on sully to steal his uranium.Long game
     

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  10. Solutionfinder

    Solutionfinder Warlord

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    SV T316

    Spoiler :
    I feel lucky to win this. Korea was 1 part away, had Freedom and was at 95% so I was just waiting to lose. Lost last organized religion to Suleiman by a turn,...and had to deal with his assult early on....Got to Education on turn 130 which is really bad. Went liberty - commerce, having domination in mind but later adjusted a plan due to being so far behind in science. So instead of Autocracy went Freedom for space parts to at least make a use of already adopted Commerce and completed Big Ben. I thought that civil society and universal suffrage worked really well for cities being so limited with tiles. Had difficulty signing research agreements because no one wanted DoF and those who did, later denounced me and broke RA deal. At the end I had a dispute with Japan but he backed off after I got nukes. Overall it was a dull game in which I struggled severely from the begining. Really nothing special to remember except that I need to improve my game, especially my adaptability...

    dido_sv.jpg
     
  11. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    Try1: Resigned around T100

    Spoiler :
    Alright time to do this one. Will make a write up and edit this post as progress goes.

    Part 1:
    Spoiler :
    Disclaimer: I know we're kind of isolated.
    Since I'm currently studying Liberty performances I'll do just that.

    Ruins: Pop, Gold, Faith, Archery

    Carthage: Monument, Worker, Shrine, Quinquireme, Cargo, Settlers x4, Archer, Lighthouse, WaterMill Stone Works
    Techs: Pottery, Sailing, Mining BW Optics Calendar Masonry AH Trapping Wheel Construction

    Utique: Monument WorkBoat Granary Archer Cargo
    Hippo Regius: Monument Granary
    Gades: Monument
    Carthago Nova: Monument
    Saguntum: Monument

    I took Desert Folklore and with Kailash and the ruin I found on T69 (Tithe Pagodas).

    The AI being an ass and Firaxis sucking at making wide play interesting I get double Dowed on turn 70 (Japan Ottomans).

    Part 2:
    Spoiler :

    The war seems rather simple. My Quinquireme are next to Japan for defense and my 2 archers should be enough.
    Hippo Regius almost fall but I get the peace deal before.

    Soooo I'm really late to anything. That war hurt our development a lot. That map seems truly suited for OCC haha.

    ...

    And around T100 I get triple DoW. They start to pillage stuff, I lose 2 routes. Probably will lose the eastern city. I rage quit.


    Kind of frustrated. Maybe I'll try it again with a good old tradition game but apparently trying to colonize around made the AI too angry... The most annoying part is that they display friendly behaviour otherwise. Send trade routes, good deals etc and then they get in a coallition for some stupid reason and just will DoW at every occasions.
     
  12. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    Sounds perfectly normal :lol:
     
  13. claudiupb

    claudiupb King

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    I have also failed an attempt at liberty. I guess the dirt just is not well suited for that.

    Spoiler :
    There is not enough room for more than 4 decent cities.
    Early domination is quite hard, on land you don't have a good path to move your units, on water Galleass don't quite cut it, there is not enough shallow water around, not to mention you have a neighbor that is quite tough on early naval warfare. So you need frigates.


    In my second attempt I went tradition and started warmongering as soon as I researched Navigation. I had some decent results, but things really started accelerating when I had battleships + autocracy.
     
  14. Olodune

    Olodune Emperor GOTM Staff

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    @Acken
    Spoiler :

    I think your game does show the many challenges that a wide Liberty game has - when everything works out this can be very solid (as you've shown), but it does feel like a house of cards at times. Nearly everyone had an early DoW, but my double DoW didn't come until much later. With Suleiman/Oda/Askia as neighbours something fiery is going to happen.

    AI Dog-piling is an interested debate. Certainly the human player does it. When the AI does it the results can be frustrating. If there was a no dog-piling diplo rule we'd abuse the hell out of it :lol: So I think it should stay.

    I've only had trouble with "building too many cities" when founding 5+ early, contrary to Consentient's experience. Maybe Liberty is better at Immortal or lower since the DoW's then are relatively benign?
     
  15. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    Dog piling, while not really frequent and severely hard to recover from. Most of the time I just have to quit.

    It feels good however to go dog piling on a weak civ and kick it while it's down (and watch them still demand everything yours in a peace deal o_O )
     
  16. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    I don't know. The Ottomans game for example only 1 AI had this penalty and he never attacked. In Irroquois game nobody. The problem on this map is that to play wide you have to spread yourself so it's very hard to defend against naval pillaging. And the loss of a work boat or cargo is a lot more damaging than a few pillaged farms :cry: What is frustrating though isn't the attack itself. It's that the attack is a consequence of playing wide as if there wasn't enough obstacles to the playstyle.
     
  17. Solutionfinder

    Solutionfinder Warlord

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    I am a fan of playing it wide but on this map I would pick anything but liberty, if I had to play again because there is just no land to make something good out of it. Early fight with the Turks, who was also "friendly" and sending cargo ships in my game before deciding to assult me, put me in serious delay to the game.
     
  18. claudiupb

    claudiupb King

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    Spoiler :
    I did a 4 city tradition start with NC at 2 cities. The start was very slow, I did not manage to steal a single worker, and got NC and Education late (I don't remember the exact turns, I think 90s for NC and 120s for education). Building work boats really slows you down. I profited from the fact that I had some map knowledge and did not build scouts, but 2 quinqueremes instead. I had a previously failed liberty attempt.

    As soon as I researched Navigation and had Total War (I was first to Autocracy even though I was 4th to an ideology), I started war. I always went with another AI against someone. I never had a war with more than one AI at a time.

    Fist war was against Ottomans (I had Russia to help me). Got 2 capitals and resurrected Songhai. I fought with frigates and not a single land unit.

    For the next wars I got Japan to help me, because they were my friends (we both went Autocracy).

    The next target was the Maya. I started with frigates but in that same turn I upgraded them so I finished with battleships. I had Riflemen and GWI to capture the capital.

    I got Russia next because they were already in the information era, while the others were in modern era. That war was very fast as they had little navy around. It eventually lead to their fall, and they did not pose any threat

    The next target was Korea. I managed to get a city quick but after that it was a disaster. They went on the top tech tree and already had nuclear subs, while I did not have a single unit that was able to detect subs. Eventually I stole the tech for subs and I put a stop to my casualties. But they destroyed more than half my army, a lot of range+logistics battleships. I eventually nuked them and got 4 cities with bomber support. This was the longest war, excluding the Ottomans, when I did not have a heavily promoted military.

    After that I headed my remaining army for Assur, and in my final turn I blitzed Assur with a nuke + bombers, and backstabbed Japan, used 3 nukes on Kyoto and captured it on that same turn.

    I had a low culture the entire game, I only managed to finish Tradition, open exploration, and put 2 policies in Rationalism before Ideologies. Eventually I got the happiness policy from exploration because I had immense pressure from both Russia and Korea. Japan helped a bit, but at some points I was in Revolutionary Wave.
    The rest of the policies were put in Autocracy. I winded up having three level 2 tenants and a level 3 one. Late game I just used my other policies for gold so I opened commerce and got a 3rd one in rationalism.

    During war I sold a lot of cities to japan to help with both happiness and gold. I also razed some cities as I did not want Japan to get too strong. Even so in the late game they were very close to a science win.

    I tried to get a good pantheon, production from boats but that was taken so I got DF, which did not help me get a religion. I did manage to get a faith GE and rush Hubble.

    I did not care too much for science, after education I beelined the war techs: Navigation, Flight, Electronics, Rocketry, Advanced Ballistics and Nanotechnology. I had an early RA with Songhai but it failed because they were eliminated, and another 2 with Russia and Japan.

    I used Oxford for Plastics in order to get a greater value from bulbing, but the rest of the techs were stolen from Russia, Korea, and Japan.

    I also did not build a single wonder, until late game when I grabbed Prora, Hubble, and Louvre because I had nothing else to do but march my army to Assyria.
     

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  19. peddroelm

    peddroelm King

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    T181 update

    Spoiler :

    Not spectacular, but looking decent for my level . Missed Oracle for 1 turn. Reloaded 3 times :( to bribe Nobunaga to DOW someone else (he really loves the spot of Gades and that gives him a lot of frustration.. Gave him world council leadership so maybe he'll slow down with the DOWs).. Great religion from Askia: happy temples, production boats and faith for science buildings.

    Spoiler :
     
  20. Sclb

    Sclb Emperor

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    T262 Diplo V

    Wasted around 20 turns at the end because I got to information era 1 turn too late to trigger the world leader vote after the 3rd WC. So I was forced to wait after the 4th.
    Being the only civ to have a nuke basically made everyone afraid and suddenly wanted to sign DoF at the end.

    WC: WF (won), culture to WW, world ideology: freedom, IG (won)
    SP: full trad, full patronage, full rationalism, 6 freedom
    wonders: HG, Globe, PT, Eiffel, SoL, Sydney OH, CN tower.

    Spoiler :

    2 city NC with 1st expo at the east end of island close to Japan. Grabbed HG as capital was very strong. Settled 2 more expo on islands to left. It was difficult to grow the islands but food cargo made it possible. Grabbed the quarry pantheon, but didn't found religion. Eventually got a religion with jesuit education so it saved me some cash buying science buildings. Stole workers off japan late while he tried to forward settle. Couldn't steal off Ottoman or any CS since none were close. Later paid Japan to DoW Russia and Ottomans to keep them at war. Russia went for science and was ahead until industrial era. Korea went for culture for some weird reason this game and was pretty bad at it. Only Russia hated me and was hostile all game.
    Oxford Radio, grabbed first freedom. Rest of world all went order except for Japan autocracy. Eventually he warred with entire world. Built Eiffel tower for some small tourism and it was enough along with the odd musicians I built for specialist slot. World Ideology kept my happiness above 50 for the rest of the game.
    Used faith GE to rush SoL.

    I chose Freedom over Order because of the large amount of water tiles forces large number of specialists which is freedom's strength.
     

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