Despite my pessimism, I am trying again -- not ashamed to be using map knowledge since I doubt that can really help me! Where would you rather have had it? On the mountain? (That was not an option for me, as what’s-his-name was too close.) Spoiler : I planted my first expo at the end of the bay, same as shown in a few screen shots. My second expo was on that one desert tile. (I think I saw people picking that spot too, hard to tell for sure.) I didn’t try founding but I still like the early the early shrine for extra food from camps. Did you have more than one expo on that part of the map? My city there was about the same as what st412 posted in his screenshot, was late, and would not help with founding in any case. If you were putting one-and-only-one city in that part of the map, where would you pick? Spoiler : As before I kept Assyria off my back by agreeing with him early to DoW Russia. Only thing I have done differently so far is bribe him to attack the Inca a couple times. He did not make much progress though. I will try and war through Assyria to Inca, and if that works the game should be in the bag. But I am poor at warmongering, so a stalemate with Assyria is the most likely outcome. Any ideas for throwing a wrench in the Inca CV?