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The Desert and the Mountain - Empires of Africa

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Scenarios' started by Plotinus, Nov 8, 2005.

  1. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Administrator

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    Yes, I think I'll be increasing the VP limit for both these scenarios. Bear in mind, though, that conquering the entire continent isn't necessarily the aim of the game!
     
  2. RedwallFortress

    RedwallFortress Necromancer Emperor

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    You should probably increase the Culture Victory a bit to. It is far too easy to win that way.
     
  3. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Administrator

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    Well, there will be quite a lot of changes in the new version, when I get it done (I still have some units to make first...). Among other things, the Falasha should be less overpowered, and Ethiopia better at defence. But I will certainly increase the victory conditions - I think most people are better at racking up the points than I am, so I tend to skew the limits to the low side.

    I was going to make the Arabian civs playable, but I've decided not to do that after all as it would simply be too much and I'd never update the scenario.
     
  4. RedwallFortress

    RedwallFortress Necromancer Emperor

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    Maybe you could make the Bejans, Almoravids, Hafsids, and Adal playable, technically they are all African ;) not Arabian.
     
  5. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Administrator

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    Well, I meant culturally Arabian. Those are the ones I was planning to make playable, but it would simply take far too much time to test; it's hard enough to keep a complex scenario like this balanced as it is.
     
  6. EDaddy

    EDaddy Warlord

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    I can't wait for the new version. I am thrilled to still see dedicated Civ3 fans & scenarios even after the release of Civ4 about 2 years ago.
     
  7. RedwallFortress

    RedwallFortress Necromancer Emperor

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    Granted, making the larger Muslim Powers playable would make the game far to easy, the Ayyubids, Almoravids, and Hafsids are particularly bad in this respect.
    But the Bejan's, Adal, and Yemenite Civ's should not be too much of a problem. True, Adal is rather Large, but if you give them a weaker Government
    ("Islamic City-States" for example.), and give Ethiopia stronger unit's as you planed, it should not cause any Problems.
    People deserve a Chance to use all the:) Cool Arab unit's you put into the Scenario!
     
  8. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Administrator

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    It'd still be fun to play the Ayyubids though, wouldn't it?

    The problem isn't so much that the new civs might themselves be unbalanced to play, as that making such fundamental changes to them would unbalance everything else. For example, if I make Adal playable, that means changing its unit lines, its starting cities and units, and so on. And that has a knock-on effect on Ethiopia, which now has a different starting position simply in virtue of the fact that its neighbour is different. So I have to adjust Ethiopia. And then I have to adjust the Falasha. And so on. I've found that the hardest part of scenario-making is the endless play-testing to try to get these balances right, so I don't really want to have to go through all of that again...
     
  9. Virote_Considon

    Virote_Considon The Great Dictator

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    One thing that you could hypothetically do in this sort of situation, is just continuously tweak, say, Adal, so that the balance it has with its neighbours becomes the same as it was before. Hypothetically, of course ;)
     
  10. johnnyjal

    johnnyjal Prince

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    I'm quite satisified with this scn and look forward to to the update.

    I also want to try some of the non-playable civs
    though I wiould not want to mess with the balance of this scn.

    Maybe up to one of us to put in the effort for another version
    with more playable civs..........
     
  11. johnnyjal

    johnnyjal Prince

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    I think it was luck. The first few turns are crucial.
    There was a stack of Adal swordsmen
    The rng goods allowed them to perish without taking any city.

    After that it was all piecemeal attacks by 1 or 2 swordsmen
    and I had a comparable unit by that time.
     
  12. RedwallFortress

    RedwallFortress Necromancer Emperor

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    What about Bejan, and Yemen? Making the Bejans and Yemenites playable probably will not require as much to be changed.
    As for Adal, you could release a bata with it playable and let other people do the play-testing, they can pinpoint exactly what should be changed.
     
  13. EDaddy

    EDaddy Warlord

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    Oh, don't forget to fix the central African governments. IIRC, the maintance costs for units under some of those forms of government are wrong and it was a very annoying bug.
     
  14. RedwallFortress

    RedwallFortress Necromancer Emperor

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    Well, I won a VP Victory in my game as the Falasha, just as I was preparing to launch a major conquest of :mad: Central Africa.
     
  15. EDaddy

    EDaddy Warlord

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    I decided to play another game of Desert -- this time as the Ghana. They have the hardest start of the 3 trading civs even though they have 2 cities. What I did was learn Agriculture first in order to buld workers and boost producion. I then settled east of Kumbi to secure the gold before the Songhai did.

    Once my city grew, I bulit Ghana's UU which was some kind of sowrdsman. I believe it was the Ghanan Swordsman. I used it against an invasion on Benin in oder to acquire more land (and trade items!). Later I would use those same men against Songhai when Mali requested my assistance. Benin & Songhai were completely eliminated from the face of Africa! I defeated the Benin while the Hausa took Songhai's last city.

    Anyways, once I had a decent infrastructure set up (which is tricky for a nation like Ghana -- especially in the beginning), everything else just fell into place like playing and Mali or Songhai nation.

    One thing I learned from this game is that Songhai & Ghana have better units suited for combat over Mali -- even against Benin, Mali would have to work harder to get them out of the game! So overall, Mali is better in trade over Ghana & Songhai, while Ghana/Songhai has better combat units (and of course I'm referring to their UU). Mali doesn't get their UU 'til the end and by that time, Mali would have already won a VP victory!
     
  16. Abegweit

    Abegweit Anarchist trader

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    I discuss playing Ghana in Post 185. Build more cities. There is space for five before the wars start.
     
  17. EDaddy

    EDaddy Warlord

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    Not for me it wasn't. I was able to put down only one city -- the rest of west Africa got filled up very quickly.
     
  18. Abegweit

    Abegweit Anarchist trader

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    Don't be afraid to settle aggressively. Squeeze 'em in. I have never played Ghana and not been able to get in my five cities (two original and three more). Sometimes they aren't exactly where I would like them... but that's life.
     
  19. Cloner4000

    Cloner4000 Call of Duty

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    One way to stop the Adal is too pillage their improvement...at first I use two 2/2 defender plus a defensive bombard unit into Adal territory through the moutain..the important thing is to stick to the moutain, they gives you much needed defense...than carefull move toward all the mined and pillage them one by one..it will reduce their production on the long run. After you research the invisible archer just send one in and wreck havoc..
    I can only take Adal out after I research cannon though
     
  20. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Administrator

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    Just to let you know that I'm having another crack at updating this scenario now that most of the required units have been made. The Arabs won't be playable, but I hope to put in a few new bits that should interest returning players as well as slight adjustments to the older parts.
     

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