The difference between the neo-Cons and traditional Conservatives

[Sims2789]

there is a difference between neo-Con and traditional Conservative. the latter wants to keep the country from changing and institute their morals on the country. the neo-Cons are there to use the government's power to help the corprations. they really don't care about gay marriage, they're just against it to get the traditional Conservative vote. if they could support it and get more votes than they would if they didn;t support it, you'd hear Bush say, "I beleive marriage is between a man and a woman, a woman and a woman, or a man and a man" instead of him just saying the first part. but Liberals won't vote for him if he says that he supports gay marriage, sicne they disagree with him so much on the other issues. if Bush supported gay marriage, then the religous right would form their own party(let's call it the Christian Party in this scenario). then the Christian Party would get 15% in the next election, Bush would get 40% and the Dems would get 45%. the coalition between the traditional Conservatives and the neo-Cons is like the one that used to exist between the liberal Democrats and the dixiecratic Democrats.

 

[Archer 007]

Thats a very true sentment IMO.

 

[Little Raven]

Originally posted by sims2789
the neo-Cons are there to use the government's power to help the corprations.

I don't think this is true. Certainly, there is a strong interest in helping cooperations throughout the Republican party, but it is not limited to the Neo-Cons nor is it their primary goal.

In many ways, Neo-Cons are surprisingly liberal. They embody the once liberal notion that America must do more than simply look after Americans; that it is our duty to change the world for the better. The big difference between the Neo-Con vision and the traditional liberal one is that while Liberals believed that America should inspire change through leadership and generosity, Neo-Cons believe in enforcing it via military might.

Obviously, the wisdom of this belief is up for debate. But I think its a mistake to dismiss Neo-Cons as simple drones of cooperation’s. These people really believe that America has a duty to spread American values throughout the world, and they aren't afraid to kill people in the process. Simple greed is relatively easy to counter; all you have to do expose it. Real idealism is much more resilient, and therefore more dangerous.

 

[amadeus]

What is with this "neo" crap? We don't call today's liberals "neo-liberals" or "neo-socialists."

 

[Mojotronica]

Clinton called himself a "New Democrat" back in '92, to differentiate himself from the New Deal Dems.

I think that neo-Conservatives are supply-siders who don't think deficit spending is that big a deal:
http://web2.iadfw.net/scsr/

While traditional Conservatives are balanced budget hawks.

 

[sysyphus]

Originally posted by rmsharpe
What is with this "neo" crap? We don't call today's liberals "neo-liberals" or "neo-socialists."

I've heard those terms used actually. The context is quite similar to that used for the neo-cons. Most of it was Canadian usage, but I have heard it used to describe Ralph Nader as well.

 

[Little Raven]

Originally posted by rmsharpe
What is with this "neo" crap? We don't call today's liberals "neo-liberals" or "neo-socialists."

The Republican party, just like the Democratic party, is made up of various factions. There is the Religious Right, the Fiscal Conservatives, and now, we have the Neo-Cons popping up. We call them Neo-Cons because although they are Republican, they hold values directly at odds with the traditional messages of Conservatism. It is simply a way to identify a distinct group within a Party that spans a very wide spectrum.

 

[Mojotronica]

Also classic Conservatives support strong trade barriers and strong control of immigration e.g. Pat Buchanon and Ross Perot.

Neo-Cons are pro-globalism, like George Bush the Elder (who sponsored NAFTA.)

 

[Zarn]

If you look at my ratings politically, you would see an example of a religous person being quite the capitalist. So, I would have to diasgree with your statements.

 

[sysyphus]

Originally posted by Mojotronica
Also classic Conservatives support strong trade barriers and strong control of immigration e.g. Pat Buchanon and Ross Perot.

Neo-Cons are pro-globalism, like George Bush the Elder (who sponsored NAFTA.)

That's only a part of the story really Mojo, if we're mainly talking about the American Enterprise Institute (who are usually the ones being referred to as neo-cons). Their idea of globalisation is mainly a twisted form of American imperialism.

 

[Marla_Singer]

George W. Bush is praying each morning when he wakes up from bed. I really don't see him supporting gay marriage. Should I remind you that when a journalist asked him what was his favourite philosophical book, he answered the Bible. Thus, it would be very funny to see him saying : "I believe wedding should be between man and woman, man and man, or woman and woman".

Well anyway, to go back about the definition of neo-conservatives. They are economically linked with the supply school. About foreign policy, their vision is quite imperialist... "the best way to defend World Peace is to rule the world". Now, in social values, they are definitly conservative. The main difference I see between them and regular conservatives is that the regular ones were isolationnist.

 

[Free Enterprise]

Originally posted by Mojotronica
Also classic Conservatives support strong trade barriers and strong control of immigration e.g. Pat Buchanon and Ross Perot.

Neo-Cons are pro-globalism, like George Bush the Elder (who sponsored NAFTA.)

The Republicans are the more pro-free trade of the two major parties. That would place many of them as neo-con by your definition.

 

[Archer 007]

Pro-free trade is anti-Religious Right, which is a key part of the party. Of course, what will they do, vote for the baby-killing, gay Democrats?

 

[Mojotronica]

Originally posted by Free Enterprise


The Republicans are the more pro-free trade of the two major parties. That would place many of them as neo-con by your definition.

The Republican party has shifted position since the 60s -- some hold-outs (notably Pat Buchanon) left the Republican party because of it's changing platform on the free trade issue, amongst others.

 

[onejayhawk]

Originally posted by archer_007
Pro-free trade is anti-Religious Right, which is a key part of the party. Of course, what will they do, vote for the baby-killing, gay Democrats?

Trade is not an issue a lot of the religious right care about. They focus 90% of their energy on abortion, and most of the rest on family values, education and 1st Amendment issues. A lot of them have opinions on other issues, but they run from one extreme to the other. Opposing abortion is the reason they coalesce.

I dont like the expression neo-anything. Its perjoritive from the start, but theat explains why people dont call themselves neo-whatever. Whatever it is called, the followers of GWBush have carved out a position well to the left of the Reagan era conservatives. Some items.
1) The tax cut was tiny, almost cosmetic, and targeted. A real conservative wants across the board, everyone equal % cuts.
2) As has been noted, immigration and trade are noticibly looser than hardliners like Pat B would like.
3) Medicare. The idea of ADDING a new benefit is opposed to everything RReagan stood for.
4) Education. Traditional conservatives favor local control.

There are large points of contact as well, which will explain why the President does well in the polling of the hard corps conservatives. Defense, security, and the basic approach to crime and police are all one large issue. Acheivement orientation is another. Family/moral/religious values, is a third. Deregulation and small business aids, property rights, etc.

Whatever you call them, they chew up a lot of what was supposed to be the "undecided" vote. There are pundits saying that the traditional 20% undecided middle is only about 7%. I am inclined to disagree. I think that the 12-13% of the "middle" that has gone over to the "neo-conservatives" still leaves a 20% undecided. Its just that a 12-13% group of traditional liberal voters now fall in the undecided group. A lot of these are religious and family oriented people, who respect the man GWBush, but disagree on many things he promotes. In the end some will vote the man and some the issues, but all will be counted as solid Democrat votes before the election, like the "Reagan Democrats" of 1980. Should we call them "neo-libs"?

J

 

[ShiplordAtvar]

Here's what Jonah Goldberg says about neoconservatism (side note - anyone else have the problem of never being able to spell conservatism correctly on the first try).

Neoconservatism - Part 1

Neoconservatism - Part 2

Here's my own two cents on the matter.

I was under the impression that the term neoconservative is applied to one who was formerly a leftist/(modern) liberal/communist and had a change of heart & mind.

However, I believe that some people not on the political right latched onto the word in order to use it in a pejorative sense for those on the right whom they found especially distasteful. Perhaps they thought people would hear the 'neo-' prefix and associate what followed with neo-Nazis.

Then again, what do I know, I'm just an ignorant, unenlightened, hillbilly redneck red-stater who is too stupid to know that anyone with intelligence (ie deserving of the vote) votes Democrat (or so sayeth a guest columnist for the Seattle P-I).

Here 's the link if you care to read what he said.

In case you couldn't tell, I think he has his head stuck up his ass.

 

[Sims2789]

Originally posted by Little Raven
...But I think its a mistake to dismiss Neo-Cons as simple drones of cooperation’s. These people really believe that America has a duty to spread American values throughout the world, and they aren't afraid to kill people in the process...

that is true, but the invasion of iraq wasn't for spreading democracy to the Mid-East, but Bush said that to get support. the real goal was to help our corprations get money from the rebuilding contracts and oil contracts. their main goal is to help the corprations using government power, but they also have side-goals.

Originally posted by rmsharpe
What is with this "neo" crap? We don't call today's liberals "neo-liberals" or "neo-socialists."

i don't know why it's called that, but if i said something else, no one would know what the h*** i was talking about. maybe The Matrix inspired it.

 

[Morfos]

I always thought of the Neo-Conservatives to be religious right-wingers, hardcore Capitilast, anti-Liberal, hawkish, homophobic, etc.... Either way, I don't like them.

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

Neo is perjorative?

And yet the guy ran on the ticket of change. "Restoring dignity to the White House and all that".

If only he would run on that slogan this year