The difference is education, not class

[Joij21]

Lest we forget we're likely just to be a simulation/s

That would at the very least imply purpose, because that would imply a creator, or at least a gamer who wishes us to play the part of stereotypical npcs.

 

[GinandTonic]

Every school I've come across asks kids to assume **** in old books is true. Some of them accurately qualify this by teaching kids what the word faith means. Many others do not. I agree. They might be child abusers. The evangelicals and the servants of God Money alike.

Not any of mine. No RE classes. Assemblies around religious festivals delivered in the third person - Christians believe etc.

I had to give a cover RE lesson in a Catholic school once, and it was very weird.

 

[Farm Boy]

It's not like they all call it RE.

 

[Sofista]

In my own experience, how much a family can look after a kid in school (time and resources) matters directly. A single child with tutoring (I believe; parents for sure won't admit it to me!) will get a grade or more above one child in, say, four, where resources and time (in these crazy years, this also means remote learning time) have to be shared.


I remember my first lesson in philosophy in (Catholic) high school. The teacher, a priest, pointed our attention to the authors of the texts, and explained that one had written the first one and a half of the three volumes, until the MIddle ages, and the other the rest. He remarked that the former was a Catholic, the latter a leftist. His point was that everyone writes from a viewpoint and that we had to be forewarned about that beforehand when reading texts, and be ready to detect it and make an informed evaluation of whatever would be presented to us.

 

[amadeus]

Back to data analytics, I think a lot of it is just kids backwardly fudging the metrics to justify their continued employment. $15 coffees in Dupont Circle don’t pay for themselves.

People are people, not bits of data on a hard disk—the way to win is through their guts, and having the right gut instinct and being in the right time at the right place will do more for a candidate than any poly-sci grad with a spreadsheet.

 

[uppi]

In my own experience, how much a family can look after a kid in school (time and resources) matters directly. A single child with tutoring (I believe; parents for sure won't admit it to me!) will get a grade or more above one child in, say, four, where resources and time (in these crazy years, this also means remote learning time) have to be shared.

The only child cannot get support from their siblings, though.

 

[Sofista]

The only child cannot get support from their siblings, though.

Granted, but what kind of support? Helping with schoolwork, or being there for them? If you mean the first, kids in a big family have as many chances to be the first one as to be the last.

 

[Zardnaar]

I kind of see it here. Liberal educated lefties don't really associate with working class people.

They work in offices or government departments or at the universities etc.

Construction workers, port workers, logistics etc not so much. Let alone farm workers.

They talk the talk but they also don't hang out with many brown people either espicially the beneficiary types and ones that work at farms/forestry/warehouses etc.

They're smart enough to care but not smart enough to realize they're the minority except in somewhat intellectual terms eg they know something like 25% of the population have degrees.

At best the occasional family holiday, reunion or wedding broadens their exposure.

 

[bernie14]

What if it's all genetics? Then does education even make sense for those that don't have the genes to make the cut?

I suspect we don't actually have free will, but we are in fact just hardwired genetic machines with a predetermined outcome to how we will live and eventually die.

Compatibalism in my opinion is a giant contradictory farce that people believe in to somehow illogically allow determinism and free will to coincide when in reality it's impossible for both concepts to exist within the same Universe at the same time.

Throw as much money as you may at the problem, but the point is we live in a meaningless and purposeless universe. Suffering and societal problems will always exist so long as the Human species exists, so why even solve them? It's an imperfect reality that is far too complex for us to ever make right to the point of satisfying everyone. On top of that we are nothing more than automatons with a built in illusion of agency, so to solve a problem is pointless because all actions and outcomes are predetermined from the start anyway.

You have a future as motivational speaker

 

[Aiken_Drumn]

We had RE classes, but it was world religions. We were not taught any one was "better" than another.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Education comes in many forms. People who left school at 15 and worked in a dozen different jobs by
the time they are 25 may well have learnt as much as those who schooled until 18 and at university until 25.

The latter may actually have learnt less in seven years regarding matters outside their specialisation.

While education ought to include critical thinking, much is indoctrination and training in how to pass exams.

And if people disagree with you, it may simply be that their educational experiences are different.

 

[Gorbles]

A lot of anything in life is "indoctrination", it's not a problem that should be relegated to criticisms of education. Agreed completely on it being training to pass exams though.

 

[Snowygerry]

We tend to think of class as driven by income, but in terms of how it’s formed and practiced in America right now, education tracks facets that paychecks miss. A high school dropout who owns a successful pest extermination company in the Houston exurbs might have an income that looks a lot like a software engineer’s at Google, while an adjunct professor’s will look more like an apprentice plumber’s. But in terms of class experience — who they know, what they believe, where they’ve lived, what they watch, who they marry and how they vote, act and protest — the software engineer is more like the adjunct professor.

That's a US thing I think, "class" orginally was driven by breeding not income - income was a secondary concern at most, working for money was a very "bourgeois" thing to do...not upper class at all

 

[Aiken_Drumn]

That's a US thing I think, "class" originally was driven by breeding not income - income was a secondary concern at most, working for money was a very "bourgeois" thing to do...not upper class at all

Breeding and Income were one and the same though? There was no way for those without "breeding" to access situations that they could make enough money to change class. The King bestowed rights and privilege to those he needed something from. Everyone else were indentured serfs and "commoners". Freedom to change your life from what you were born into is a very recent act, relatively speaking.

I guess since America was founded one wave after wave of refugees, there was a scramble to create the new Bourgeois, and everyone was invited!

 

[Snowygerry]

(...)Guess since America was founded one wave after wave of refugees, there was a scramble to create the new Bourgeois, and everyone was invited!

Those that could "live off the land" in Europe and could have others work for *their* money obviously did not migrate across the ocean.

The Bourgeois become the new "upper class" - that was not unexpected at all.

Edit, you do not be a "King" btw to live off someone elses efforts - you just need to own land, and of course land ownership is hereditary (no liberal "revolution" will change that, only the communists tried and failed miserably), the land owners made the kings who are all too often just figureheads, selected to maintain the status quo...

I'm sure this concept still works over there too, it just takes several centuries to fully materialize, only then money will change into "class"

 

[aelf]

I do agree education is a big factor, but class still plays a huge role. YMMV depending on where you are as well.

As reported by some, members of the upper classes may be well-educated but also conservative. Definitely seems to be the case in the UK. And outside of the Anglo or Eurosphere, things get really blurry. Comopolitanism tends to go up, but liberalism might not.

And what about type of education? Social sciences may tend to produce left-leaning people, but it doesn't seem to me like business or engineering does. Plenty of libertarian douchebags from those fields.

 

[Samson]

And what about type of education? Social sciences may tend to produce left-leaning people, but it doesn't seem to me like business or engineering does. Plenty of libertarian douchebags from those fields.

It seems to me "proper" science leans pretty heavily left, though whether that is "reality has a left wing bias" or "academic science pays badly, so the right wing types do not do it" I am not sure.

 

[Aiken_Drumn]

It seems to me "proper" science leans pretty heavily left, though whether that is "reality has a left wing bias" or "academic science pays badly, so the right wing types do not do it" I am not sure.

This depends on the field. Lots of 'bad' science funded by Right Sided industries. We wouldn't be so amazing at extracting earth's resources if science was only Lefty.

Environmentalism is a war between left and right science.

 

[Samson]

This depends on the field. Lots of 'bad' science funded by Right Sided industries. We wouldn't be so amazing at extracting earth's resources if science was only Lefty.

Environmentalism is a war between left and right science.

I expect you are right. Perhaps I should have said biomedical sciences, as that is what I know.

 

[GinandTonic]

I kind of see it here. Liberal educated lefties don't really associate with working class people.

They work in offices or government departments or at the universities etc.

Construction workers, port workers, logistics etc not so much. Let alone farm workers.

I think that is very dependant on the people and the place. Take, as I always do, the example of my local pubs. Millionaires and housepainters, no-one gives a monkies. Come in covered in plaster dust one day a a tailored suit the next, no-one gives a monkies, though the landlord demands hi-vis vests be removed. There are more expensive bars where those that want to pay can ensure they are insulated from the riffraff. The local rough pub has been refurbished and is now more expensive than my local. Some working class people are willing to pay more to be isolated from the upper-middle classes.

Social isolation is a choice made by a minority.

While education ought to include critical thinking, much is indoctrination and training in how to pass exams.

Indeed. Wasn't there a southern state that actively banned teaching of critical thinking. I think the point where critical thinking is actively discouraged is the point where education has overtly become propaganda.

That's a US thing I think, "class" orginally was driven by breeding not income - income was a secondary concern at most, working for money was a very "bourgeois" thing to do...not upper class at all

Breeding and Income were one and the same though? There was no way for those without "breeding" to access situations that they could make enough money to change class. The King bestowed rights and privilege to those he needed something from. Everyone else were indentured serfs and "commoners". Freedom to change your life from what you were born into is a very recent act, relatively speaking.

I guess since America was founded one wave after wave of refugees, there was a scramble to create the new Bourgeois, and everyone was invited!

There are theories that many periods of societal advance were caused by increased social mobility. Plagues changed the relative value of land ownership v labour and arguably therefore spurred the agricultural revolution. Total disruption in the industrial revolution. The early days of Empire presented similar opportunities to emigration to America, at least for the Europeans.

One of my ancestors made a packet in prizemoney 1800ish. Took him from being little more than a fisherman to holding a captains licence.

The border between classes was somewhat porous.