The difference is education, not class

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Hygro, Oct 18, 2021.

  1. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    If the border isn't porous its a caste system, not a class system.
     
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  2. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    The difference/answer is usually just one thing and Hygro always knows the score.

    It's very simple and clear and myriad factors are not involved.
     
  3. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The long wait

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    Absolutely not. Resources do need collected, and the people doing it do need a living. We have exported the expense of renewal with trade, with tricky dicky carbon "accounting" and such, with pumping aquifers in sunny climates, but nobody wants to pay for putting back as they take it, and considering the workers well paid and honorable professions.

    If one's God is money and the world ends with self, no problem, I suppose.
     
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  4. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

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    We had a recent analysis in NL that shows that it is more the level of education of the parents that influences the level of education of children and their future "succes" than the level of wealth of their parents.

    There are lots of educated parents that are more happy (more free time, social life, sharing housekeeping tasks, children care, etc) with a "good enough" but not really higher income. In NL we are champions in part-time working.
     
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  5. Snowygerry

    Snowygerry Prince

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    Interesting. He was a privateer then ?
     
  6. GinandTonic

    GinandTonic Saphire w/ Schweps + Lime

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    Just a civilian sailor, but in war it was expected for them to attack enemy ships where practical. He made a packet because the prizemoney was divided between the Captain, the officers and the crew. Since there were only a couple of people who counted as "officers" his share was disproportionate. Enough to return to the UK, take the Captains exam, buy the stuff to look the part etc.

    He made his money being a Captain, but that windfall allowed him to become a Captain.
     
  7. Aiken_Drumn

    Aiken_Drumn Prince

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    Worthy of a Hornblower-esk drama!
     
  8. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    @OP, almost every definition of the word "class" (even Google's dictionary) allows for both social and economic dimensions, not just economic.
     
  9. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Nah but in all candor @Hygro I do think extreme wealth warps one's worldview and values to a degree much greater than many many years of education, but I think for most situations you're right. At least, my experience working with quite affluent, but non-college-educated union guys tells me you're right.
     
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  10. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

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    He also doesn’t recognize sarcasm so you’re in the clear
     
  11. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

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    Well, imagine what dinguses they would be if they were even less educated.

    Yes, but that doesn't supercede the argument. But thank God it does, rather than some Spartan reproduction of killing the helots. At least they/we get educated.

    Yes, but that doesn't supercede the argument that we need other people to be educated to get them to not put their interpersonal suspicions of power motives, something we all learn, above say, greenhouse gas science.

    Epic, but no, and that doesn't supercede the argument either. Even if we're genetically different in mental faculties (whatever version you want, diversity of niche fitting with the current system that selects for a minority of humans argument, or some kind of racist fantasy) at the end of the day, different people would still need education regardless of their mental differences for democracy to work best.

    This is certainly true and true to my experience as well having not only been an ivory tower guard or sage but also a member of the working world. I never finished high school for real-real and I've never had a college-grad-level paid job. Of course the full story is different with high level stuff mostly afforded to high class people.

    I am against college as job training, and support breadth requirements for the first two years of university for this reason. The kids coming out of UC Berkeley, an honestly fairly conservative university at this point, are still taught the theories of privilege and oppression, social cause and effects, and so forth, to not be total societal morons, even as as my fraternity brothers went to work en masse to your very same consulting firm. Even the Republicans largely turned out conservative democrats in the end because they believe in the future of humanity through science and equality.

    Hey, I'm just focusing on one issue, I know it's complex. Let's not lose sight of an important and recently overlooked issue by paying too much homage to complexity.

    The dictionary is classist. :nya:

    And if we can get enough people educated, they might just vote right despite the news owned by the rich.
     
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  12. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    In the social sense of "class," yes.
     
  13. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    I don't know very many very rich people but in my limited experience it seems like connections are more important than knowledge.

    Phds and masters degrees are just something to do for people who have the money or don't mind the debt.

    Or maybe you mean education in a different way than schooling, I've only skimmed.
     
  14. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The long wait

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    Life is weird. I could say the same of my middle aged, now, friends. So long as you flop the party. We usually, anymore, phrase it as "better living through chemistry" and a laugh.
     
  15. GinandTonic

    GinandTonic Saphire w/ Schweps + Lime

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    Wealth, class and social capital are three separate but overlapping concepts.

    We have words for these concepts. It makes conversations way easier.
     
  16. Joij21

    Joij21 Emperor

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    So your talking about education not as something where the end goal is job creating capacity, but rather informing them of how to vote for policy makers that in your opinion have the best policies.

    Therefore your also implying that such courses wouldn't be that brain intensive, but simplistic enough where even someone like Homer Simpson could understand and pass the class. After all the end goal would be to teach people why Anthropogenic Climate Change is bad without needing to go into the complicated maths, since the end goal is to manipulate their voting habits and not training them to be climatologists.
     
  17. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    I just came across these numbers for voting/education and income from 2012:
    Who % Obama
    People with no higher education at all 51%
    People with some college 49%
    College educated 51%
    Postgraduate 55%

    Who % Obama
    <$30k 63%
    $30k - $50k 57%
    >$50k 53%
    >$100k 54%

    And from 2020:

    Which Best Describes Your Education? You Have:
    (15,344 Respondents) Voted (D) Voted (R)
    Never attended college 46% 54%
    Attended college but received no degree 51% 47%
    Associate's degree (AA or AS) 47% 50%
    Bachelor's degree (BA or BS) 51% 47%
    An advanced degree after a bachelor's degree (such as JD, MA, MBA, MD, PhD) 62% 37%


    2019 Total Family Income:
    (3,520 Respondents) Voted (D) Voted (R)
    Under $30,000 54% 46%
    $30,000 - $49,999 56% 43%
    $50,000 - $99,999 57% 42%
    $100,000 - $199,999 41% 58%
    $200,000 or more 44% 44%


    It looks like income was a stronger predictor than education to me.
     
  18. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

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    More income correlates to more R
    More education correlates to more D
    More education correlates to more income

    ............
    think about it
     
  19. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    I have been thinking about it a bit, and my thoughts:
    • As far as the thread title goes, is it more education or class, though here treating class = income this seems to demonstrate that income is more of a difference, ie. if you had to bet on if an individual voted R or D you would be better off knowing their income than their educational level.
    • The cases which are the strongest predictors, <$30k in 2012 (63%) and post grad education in 2020 (62%) are those I would expect to be most mutually exclusive.
    Lots of websites support your last hypothesis, but they all seem to be selling education one way or another, so I do not know ;).
     
  20. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The long wait

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    Education predicts living location and it predicts type of career. Politicians promise benefits, and they promise to pay for them by cutting others "unearned" benefits or by taxing people who "have it too good."

    So yeah, it's useful to know, but it's not the thing thing.
     

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