The Donald Trump Friendship and Positivity Thread

[Sommerswerd]

True. But what gets my goat is that W's approval is up near 60%, even though with every passing year his legacy looks more and more disastrous. He should be universally reviled for the Iraq war, but instead his image is burnished just because of how statesmanlike he looks next to Trump, and mainly among Democrats. Blows my mind.

I want to suggest to you that the same inflexible ideological purity that you are annoyed Democrats aren't sticking to in the case of Bush, is one of the many factors that was at play for Democrats/liberals who refused to turn out/vote for Hillary. On some level/in some instances, you've gotta be able to say "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" or you lose every battle. I wonder if you have any thoughts on that?

EDIT: Consider that Republicans win elections because their voters can go to the polls and vote in lock-step with the Klan... and dismiss it with a "meh, I'm not racist, but I hate SJWs and these guys hate SJW's, so that's what matters"

 

[Farm Boy]

Who's the "SJW" in the latter part of that? Like, who really? Democrats? Coasters? The young? Whatever the counterpart to "rurals" is? Though careful with the last part there, rural describes people from a geography(with hella slidy boundaries), the alternatives to rural seem to erratically translate these days as "Jew." Not mostly who I thought lived out there, but the things you can learn on CFC!

 

[metalhead]

I want to suggest to you that the same inflexible ideological purity that you are annoyed Democrats aren't sticking to in the case of Bush, is one of the many factors that was at play for Democrats/liberals who refused to turn out/vote for Hillary. On some level/in some instances, you've gotta be able to say "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" or you lose every battle. I wonder if you have any thoughts on that?

Well, I'm also pretty disappointed that the former presidents aren't all standing up more forcefully for democracy and denouncing the lurch toward authoritarianism.

There are no real-world repercussions for denouncing the George W. Bush presidency, and the man himself for the terrible cost of his decisions. And he is a very seldom and oblique Trump antagonist, so it's not as if he's actually doing good things now to make up for it. He's mostly just painting.

I didn't actually mind the fact of people refusing to vote for Hillary in itself. It was the utter refusal to engage with the decision on an intellectual level that I found disheartening and maddening. In no intellectual universe was there equivalence between the two. Bernie Sanders himself proclaimed she would have been 1000 times better as president. But people ideologically aligned with Bernie nevertheless completely ignored that plainly obvious reality.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

I respect (Cheer)leader Geaorge Dub Ya "The Bush" for his artistry, I am certain most Americans feel the same way

 

[Broken_Erika]

Dubyah also makes up some of the best Robot Chicken material..
Captain Texas Style!

 

[Kyriakos]

W is a cretin

 

[Sommerswerd]

Who's the "SJW" in the latter part of that? Like, who really? Democrats? Coasters? The young? Whatever the counterpart to "rurals" is?

That's the question though, isn't it? Here's Wikipedia's take, but TL;DR, the real answer is "SJW" is some BS that conservatives have started using to tar their opponents. It's that simple. So if you want to know who an "SJW" is... ask a conservative. They're the ones who are using it as a pejorative, so it essentially means whatever they say it means.

However, to keep the discussion moving forward, I'd say in this context, "SJW" is say... "peope who rally and protest against the Klan, Nazi's etc., including, but not limited to, Antifa." We can go with that I guess .

Well, I'm also pretty disappointed that the former presidents aren't all standing up more forcefully for democracy and denouncing the lurch toward authoritarianism.

There are no real-world repercussions for denouncing the George W. Bush presidency, and the man himself for the terrible cost of his decisions. And he is a very seldom and oblique Trump antagonist, so it's not as if he's actually doing good things now to make up for it. He's mostly just painting.

As I understand it, there's some unwritten "code" that former POTUSes try to avoid going after other POTUSes and former POTUSes. Obama tends to avoid mentioning Trump by name, even when he is obviously, generally criticizing his administration/policies. And I think that he and Dubya are full blown "friends" now so you aren't going to hear squat about Bush from him anymore.

 

[miaasma]

this is such a thread

 

[yung.carl.jung]

It's weird how pejoratives are so short-lived now. Remember like one or two years ago when it was super en-vogue to declare certain things or manneurisms or restaurants or what have you as "hipster" as a means of discrediting them? Now we've gone from SJW, which is already in decline, to soyboy, which I hope will carry on a little longer, simply because it's so phonetically pleasing.

 

[Sommerswerd]

It's weird how pejoratives are so short-lived now. Remember like one or two years ago when it was super en-vogue to declare certain things or manneurisms or restaurants or what have you as "hipster" as a means of discrediting them? Now we've gone from SJW, which is already in decline, to soyboy, which I hope will carry on a little longer, simply because it's so phonetically pleasing.

Is "treehugger" still a thing? That was a good one.

 

[Gori the Grey]

I like his signature. That's all I got.

 

[Dachs]

It's weird how pejoratives are so short-lived now. Remember like one or two years ago when it was super en-vogue to declare certain things or manneurisms or restaurants or what have you as "hipster" as a means of discrediting them? Now we've gone from SJW, which is already in decline, to soyboy, which I hope will carry on a little longer, simply because it's so phonetically pleasing.

I dunno. American conservatives still refer to things they don't like as "hippie". Outdated pejoratives aren't always outdated for everybody.

 

[Farm Boy]

Those culture wars were much more tense than... "hipster?"

 

[stinkubus]

Am I take take this thread as proof that Commodore doesn't really have a problem with safe spaces and politically correct discourse after all?

 

[Sommerswerd]

Correct.

Good catch

 

[Lexicus]

Am I take take this thread as proof that Commodore doesn't really have a problem with safe spaces and politically correct discourse after all?

tfw you were just using 'safe space' and 'free speech' as excuses to bag on the left but now someone is actually challenging your views intellectually

 

[metalhead]

Ben Shapiro is Jordan Peterson without the education.

 

[Lexicus]

Ben Shapiro is Jordan Peterson without the education.

Speaking of which...

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Ben Shapiro is Jordan Peterson without the education.

I akways saw him as Young Ted Cruz.

 

[Bootstoots]

Something I was thinking about today... During the election and throughout his presidency, I can remember hearing lots of people talk about "loving" Trump. Even living up here in the liberal northeast, I've heard multiple people say "I love Donald Trump". The Trump election and Presidency has made a lot of people truly happy, they feel a real sense of elation that he won the election and is the POTUS. Disagree with them as I do, oppose them as I may, I can acknowledge that for whatever myriad reasons, Trump's Presidency has made a lot of Americans happy. That has worth, again, even if I don't share in the happiness.

You've probably heard me say this before, but have you listened to his rallies? Like, really listened and tried to figure out his appeal? While being as non-judgmental as possible?

If not, I highly recommend it. From experience, booze helps a lot - it quiets down the analytical side of your brain that says "this doesn't make any sense" or "that has terrible implications". Just sit back and take in the emotions of the crowd as they respond to him, and try to let yourself be carried along as much as you possibly can.

This Jacobin article does a better job than I can of explaining how Trump emotionally appeals to people. Technically I'm supposed to spoiler the link because it contains a swear word, courtesy of Trump himself.

Spoiler Jacobin article on Trump rallies :

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/11/trump-speeches-populism-war-economics-election/

Here's a key bit:

At almost every turn the liberal pundits misunderstood, or did not hear, what Trump was saying. After his win in the Nevada caucus Trump said: “We won with highly educated, we won with poorly educated. I love the poorly educated! We’re the smartest people, we’re the most loyal people.” Liberals lampooned him, assuming that he had insulted part of his base.

A different interpretation translates those comments as: “Trump understands that it’s not all my fault that I couldn’t get an education. He understands that even people who don’t have advanced degrees can make good decisions and are worthy of respect.”

I remember when he said this and was blown away by how politically brilliant he had been by saying "I love the poorly educated!" In doing so, not only communicated his support for a large, disadvantaged, and derided population, he got the media to remark on that comment in a way that helped drive home his populist message about how the elites disdain the masses and only he cares about them. The media responded in a predictably sneering way, suggesting that he insulted his base but also, in some cases, seeming to communicate that it is ridiculous to love the poorly educated as a group. That sort of sentiment is the sort of thing that drives people to vote against their class interests.

Trump uses the word "love" all the time. That article again:

What was it that the voters saw in Trump? The mainstream media version of Trump was as a crazy and brutal pig — not entirely untrue. The words “huge” and “tremendous” were leitmotifs in mocking Trump’s limited vocabulary. But his stump speech lexicon also included “loyalty” “win” “pledge” “beautiful” and “love” — lots and lots of “love.”

In that New Hampshire speech where Trump dropped the F-bomb he followed it up with: “We want the businesses that stayed. I’ve toured a lot of businesses that stayed. It’s hard for them to stay . . . those are the ones that we have to love and cherish.”

Or consider the particularly emotional exchange Trump had with a father from upstate New York. “I lost my son two years ago to a heroin overdose,” says the father from off camera. “Well, you know they have a tremendous problem in New Hampshire with the heroin,” says Trump. “Unbelievable. It’s always the first question I get, and they have a problem all over. And it comes through the border. We’re going to build a wall.”

Then, instead of moralizing anger, playing against type come compassion and respect: “In all fairness to your son, it’s a tough thing. Some very, very strong people have not been able to get off it. So we have to work with people to get off it.”

At this point it becomes clear that the bereaved father has started to cry. Trump shifts to tough-guy reassuring. “You just relax, OK? Yeah, it’s a tough deal. Come on. It’s a tough deal.” And, in a veiled reference to Trump’s own brother’s death from alcoholism, “I know what you went through.” Then, to the audience while pointing at the father: “He’s a great father, I can see it. And your son is proud of you. Your son is proud of you. It’s tough stuff, it’s tough stuff, and it could be stopped.”

My point is not that we should like Trump but rather that the Left must understand why almost sixty million Americans voted for him. The answer seems clear: it was Trump’s ersatz populism, antiwar message, and his ability to, in a Bill Clinton style, “feel” people’s real pain.

So yeah, he communicates empathy and concern for people all the time. He has rhetorical carrots along with sticks, and displays them expertly to get people to feel "love" back for him.