The early game build out.

[Gothmog]

BillChin,

Its funny how the RNG plays with us!

As I state above I play Diety with Raging barbs (yes version 1.29, a big big improvement). Now another factor that I am wondering about is that I usually play small or standard map with the standard # of opponents. I always seem to be put right next to like four other civs, always. As you say, I don't know if it is bad luck (or my RNG is a bit of a dick) but I am buisy building my granary and I meet a civ. By the time I've got my second city, I've met two or three more. Thus these other civs usually have war parties that are out killing barbs before I can even try to get to them (no cash for me), and quickly there is no unexplored land anywhere near me for the barbs to spawn.

Also, I just try to make sure I have half my food completed before my granary arrives. As long as I get my half filled immediately upon building my granary, it seems to me that I am getting max benefit. Am I missing something?

Edit: I just thought of another factor, the world shape! I play random, but it seems to me that islands would spread the civs out more and make it more likely that barbs would be a factor early on.

 

[billindenver]

Many thanks to everyone who has posted here.

I guess the concensus is:
Build a granary before a settler, unless there is a really good food site for city #2 nearby, in which case, build a settler and granary in the 2nd city.

I think I'll give warrior/granary with a pop-rush a try next game and see how it goes. Since I usually play Monarch, hopefully, I won't get the quick barb attack.

@billchin
OK, I can kinda see the burn gold for nothing thing. I know that I definitely want it to complete before the next pop increase, so that I start with a 1/2 full granary rather than an empty one.

I wish the damned Chinese would finally kick my butt so I can start a new game and try this out.

 

[BillChin]

Originally posted by Gothmog
BillChin,

Its funny how the RNG plays with us!

As I state above I play Diety with Raging barbs (yes version 1.29, a big big improvement). Now another factor that I am wondering about is that I usually play small or standard map with the standard # of opponents. I always seem to be put right next to like four other civs, always. As you say, I don't know if it is bad luck (or my RNG is a bit of a dick) but I am buisy building my granary and I meet a civ. By the time I've got my second city, I've met two or three more. Thus these other civs usually have war parties that are out killing barbs before I can even try to get to them (no cash for me), and quickly there is no unexplored land anywhere near me for the barbs to spawn.

Definitely, barbs are less of a factor on small worlds, more on large or huge. Having enemy civs nearby helps a great deal with barbs. Raging barbs may actually make the game a bit easier for the human player in certain situations as the barbs might bag an occasional computer settler.

The AU game I posted the link to, is an island start. There are no enemy units or cities to soak up the barbs. For anyone looking for a nice challenge give it a try (especially on Deity).

Pure isolation starts are only about 10% of random starts. However, there are plenty of times of other times when the nearest enemy civ is a decent distance away. In these cases barbs can ruin a player's game. If there is an enemy civ nearby the warrior-granary path is better than warrior-settler, because an enemy is much more likely to attack a human player with two cities than just the capital.
- Bill

 

[Grey Knight]

Originally posted by Gothmog

Also, I just try to make sure I have half my food completed before my granary arrives. As long as I get my half filled immediately upon building my granary, it seems to me that I am getting max benefit. Am I missing something?

The granary gives it's benefit when the city grows. Instead of loosing all food in the bin, only half is lost, so the next refill should only take half as long.

In other words, the granary needs to be timed to complete just before the city grows. If you city is about to grow first, change the worker assignments so you are not collecting as much food, and preferablly are collecting more shields (i.e. move from irrigated plains to forests).

Cheers,
Shawn

 

[Cartouche Bee]

Although I have made a case for building a granary in certain cases, I have done some further testing that suggests that unless you have a case where you can build a settler every four turns with a granary, a granary may not be the best build out scenario.

 

[Gothmog]

Another factor about the initial granary build is that you do not get the benefits of your second city as soon. So if you don't have any two shield spots in your capital and it will take you a while to build that granary then it may be better to build a settler first. Like most things in civ3 there is no cut and dry rule. You must assess the situations individually.

It is important to remember that you want to be working any bonus spots you have. Sometimes that means allowing your city to grow - and that gives you time to build that granary. Then you can go with a 5 -> 3, or even 6 -> 4 cycle.

 

[Lynx]

Settlers are better, expandsionisim is the key, as the first 3rd of this game is a frenetic land grab, you will need size to hope to have all the resources you will need for the huge modern age wars (read my guide!)