The Egypt & Nubia Thread

[Hickman888]

In the spirit of better cataloguing experiences and feedback into specific threads as SultanRedSnake suggested, I have created the Egypt thread. I played a ton of Egypt games over the last several days, and managed to historically win with them twice, and achieve one (accidental) pagan victory. (Regent/Normal) Here are all my thoughts/observations/suggestions:

Egypt:​

Historical Goals:​

1. If you rush out the Pyramids and Sphinx, which you should be doing anyways, you'll earn enough by the deadline, without really trying. I don't think it would be a bad idea if the culture requirement were made a bit higher, with a bit more turns to compensate, so that the player must build an Obelisk, and therefore put a little more effort into producing culture.
2. Conquering Nubia and the Levant by 600 BC. I would love if this goal were pushed earlier to 1210 BC, just before the Phoenician spawn, and we were given the opportunity to recreate the Battle of Kadesh, the largest chariot battle in history. Maybe if the amount of defenders on Jerusalem were reduced a little, and the Nubian Medjay was nerfed a little, it might be possible. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if Egypt has enough time to build a sufficient military for that. In the current meta, I was forced to rush Alloys in order to train Light Swordsmen, as the best way to counter all the archers I faced. War Chariots were scarcely used.
3. This goal emphasizes using Egypt's massive potential into the culture slider, so I think it is a great goal to handicap Egypt's technological development for a bit. The only problem I have with this goal is the Great Lighthouse. This wonder is not suited for Egypt, at all. The only coastal cities I had were Jerusalem and Sur, conquered cities. So it added 4 trade routes, which, with Redistribution, probably added 3 . I propose Egypt receive a bit more historical territory on the Red Sea, and perhaps to the west of Alexandria as well, to enjoy the fruits of their Great Lighthouse a bit more. Also, I didn't bother settling Alexandria in my second game, as that city site currently leaves a lot to be desired, and Jerusalem has much better to construct the Great Lighthouse. Also, I think that early game foreign trade routes could use a buff, to make them more desirable. At least 2 !

War Chariot:​

This unique unit is very forgettable. Perhaps the only thing it has going for it is it has two movement. The +25% Flood Plains attack doesn't come into play very often, as the Sea People and Greek conquerors can cross desert and hills, and not have to worry about your advantage. I propose the War Chariot receives +25% Desert/Semidesert strength, to help keep Egypt free of invaders, and not needing to wait until they are on the banks of the Nile. Additionally, at the Battle of Kadesh, the 2-person Egyptian chariots were smaller and more agile than the heavier, 3-person Hittite chariots (which are strength 5). To reflect this, I propose the War Chariot receives 50% withdrawal chance, not 20%.

Miscellaneous:​

• Medjay archer is extremely powerful. Base strength of 4, 2 free first strikes, +50% city defense, +50% vs Light Cavalry. These guys insured that 90% of my military were Light Swordsmen, as the best way to counter them. I propose the Medjay's city defense bonus gets taken down to +25%.
• Oracle. I'm still unsure how I feel about this wonder being a mainstay in the ancient era for the Bronze Age civilizations, and not a classical era Greek wonder. Definitely this wonder is a must for the Egyptian game currently, to help catch up on the research that's needed.
• I found if I settled Alexandria before the Sea People invasion, the Sea People would spawn in that vicinity and invade. If I didn't settle over there, they were a lot less likely to invade me at all. As mentioned before, I also think that the Alexandria BFC needs a bit more love to justify settling it currently.
• Getting Great Prophets as Egypt is almost always preferred over Great Engineers, as they can bulb Ceremony, Calendar, Writing, Priesthood, Literature, and Philosophy. A direct path to the Great Library! I propose that the Leverage technology be added to the list of technologies that Great Engineers may bulb, to make receiving one a bit less painful for Egypt. (One Great Engineer for me was all that I wanted, to rush the Great Lighthouse.)
• There are a lot of tiles to improve in Egypt, and they're almost all situated on Desert/Semidesert, which takes 25% longer to improve. If Caste System weren't unlocked so late at Literature, and all of my improvements having already been completed, I would seriously weigh my options between Slavery and Caste System. I know Leoreth is working on civics as his next major project, so just wanted to share this input. It's always good to have strong 2nd options in the civic screen, to make you pause and consider.
• Settling my second city on turn 20 bumped my maintenance/civic upkeep to 3 , and maintaining my empire of 6 cities in the early classical era (2 in Egypt, 2 in Nubia, 2 in the Levant) cost a whopping 19 maintenance and 31 civic upkeep, 50 in total! This seems a bit high, but as Leoreth said, Egypt needs strict modififers to keep them in check, so this probably is necessary.
• If an animal is sitting on a tile and the border expands to cover it, it won't kick the animal out, he will just continue to sit on the tile. Bug?
• The Pagan temple requirement for a Pagan victory should be increased to 20 perhaps? I accidentally won a Pagan victory once, and actually achieved another Pagan victory on the same turn as my Historical victory in my second game

 

[CometHalo]

In the spirit of better cataloguing experiences and feedback into specific threads as SultanRedSnake suggested, I have created the Egypt thread. I played a ton of Egypt games over the last several days, and managed to historically win with them twice, and achieve one (accidental) pagan victory. (Regent/Normal) Here are all my thoughts/observations/suggestions:

Egypt:​

Historical Goals:​

1. If you rush out the Pyramids and Sphinx, which you should be doing anyways, you'll earn enough by the deadline, without really trying. I don't think it would be a bad idea if the culture requirement were made a bit higher, with a bit more turns to compensate, so that the player must build an Obelisk, and therefore put a little more effort into producing culture.
2. Conquering Nubia and the Levant by 600 BC. I would love if this goal were pushed earlier to 1210 BC, just before the Phoenician spawn, and we were given the opportunity to recreate the Battle of Kadesh, the largest chariot battle in history. Maybe if the amount of defenders on Jerusalem were reduced a little, and the Nubian Medjay was nerfed a little, it might be possible. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if Egypt has enough time to build a sufficient military for that. In the current meta, I was forced to rush Alloys in order to train Light Swordsmen, as the best way to counter all the archers I faced. War Chariots were scarcely used.
3. This goal emphasizes using Egypt's massive potential into the culture slider, so I think it is a great goal to handicap Egypt's technological development for a bit. The only problem I have with this goal is the Great Lighthouse. This wonder is not suited for Egypt, at all. The only coastal cities I had were Jerusalem and Sur, conquered cities. So it added 4 trade routes, which, with Redistribution, probably added 3 . I propose Egypt receive a bit more historical territory on the Red Sea, and perhaps to the west of Alexandria as well, to enjoy the fruits of their Great Lighthouse a bit more. Also, I didn't bother settling Alexandria in my second game, as that city site currently leaves a lot to be desired, and Jerusalem has much better to construct the Great Lighthouse. Also, I think that early game foreign trade routes could use a buff, to make them more desirable. At least 2 !

War Chariot:​

This unique unit is very forgettable. Perhaps the only thing it has going for it is it has two movement. The +25% Flood Plains attack doesn't come into play very often, as the Sea People and Greek conquerors can cross desert and hills, and not have to worry about your advantage. I propose the War Chariot receives +25% Desert/Semidesert strength, to help keep Egypt free of invaders, and not needing to wait until they are on the banks of the Nile. Additionally, at the Battle of Kadesh, the 2-person Egyptian chariots were smaller and more agile than the heavier, 3-person Hittite chariots (which are strength 5). To reflect this, I propose the War Chariot receives 50% withdrawal chance, not 20%.

Miscellaneous:​

• Medjay archer is extremely powerful. Base strength of 4, 2 free first strikes, +50% city defense, +50% vs Light Cavalry. These guys insured that 90% of my military were Light Swordsmen, as the best way to counter them. I propose the Medjay's city defense bonus gets taken down to +25%.
• Oracle. I'm still unsure how I feel about this wonder being a mainstay in the ancient era for the Bronze Age civilizations, and not a classical era Greek wonder. Definitely this wonder is a must for the Egyptian game currently, to help catch up on the research that's needed.
• I found if I settled Alexandria before the Sea People invasion, the Sea People would spawn in that vicinity and invade. If I didn't settle over there, they were a lot less likely to invade me at all. As mentioned before, I also think that the Alexandria BFC needs a bit more love to justify settling it currently.
• Getting Great Prophets as Egypt is almost always preferred over Great Engineers, as they can bulb Ceremony, Calendar, Writing, Priesthood, Literature, and Philosophy. A direct path to the Great Library! I propose that the Leverage technology be added to the list of technologies that Great Engineers may bulb, to make receiving one a bit less painful for Egypt. (One Great Engineer for me was all that I wanted, to rush the Great Lighthouse.)
• There are a lot of tiles to improve in Egypt, and they're almost all situated on Desert/Semidesert, which takes 25% longer to improve. If Caste System weren't unlocked so late at Literature, and all of my improvements having already been completed, I would seriously weigh my options between Slavery and Caste System. I know Leoreth is working on civics as his next major project, so just wanted to share this input. It's always good to have strong 2nd options in the civic screen, to make you pause and consider.
• Settling my second city on turn 20 bumped my maintenance/civic upkeep to 3 , and maintaining my empire of 6 cities in the early classical era (2 in Egypt, 2 in Nubia, 2 in the Levant) cost a whopping 19 maintenance and 31 civic upkeep, 50 in total! This seems a bit high, but as Leoreth said, Egypt needs strict modififers to keep them in check, so this probably is necessary.
• If an animal is sitting on a tile and the border expands to cover it, it won't kick the animal out, he will just continue to sit on the tile. Bug?
• The Pagan temple requirement for a Pagan victory should be increased to 20 perhaps? I accidentally won a Pagan victory once, and actually achieved another Pagan victory on the same turn as my Historical victory in my second game

I think the animal staying has something to do with it not being able to enter the desert tiles

 

[ыьндук2]

I've only played a couple of games for Egypt so far. Sorry, I want to immediately disagree with you about the Oracle. I have never built it, and it seems to me that you just need to run to Writing as quickly as possible, and the great prophet helps with this. I'll play some more and give a more detailed comment later.

 

[Hickman888]

I've only played a couple of games for Egypt so far. Sorry, I want to immediately disagree with you about the Oracle. I have never built it, and it seems to me that you just need to run to Writing as quickly as possible, and the great prophet helps with this. I'll play some more and give a more detailed comment later.

Well, perhaps I exaggerated in saying that the Oracle is a "must". But building it really helped cut down on my research, and allowed me to ultimately win before the Greek conquerors even arrived, thus making the whole game much easier (and quicker). I don't think that would've been possible without building the Oracle.

 

[CometHalo]

Feature or bug: if you settle one left of Nubia's gold before you get the warning about their spawn about to happen you preclude them entirely. I beat Egypt on Emperor/normal before Alexander invaded by doing this, but it doesn't feel like it's supposed to happen...

 

[Dracosolon]

That's called outrunning Kerma.

 

[Just an idea]

Couple of things I noticed in my attempts at Egypt UHV:

I found that War Chariots work better than Light Swordsmen for conquest of Nubia. They are available earlier which means you can attack Nubia before they amass large force of Medjays. Also their immunity to first strikes gives them a better chance of damaging Medjays when losing. I still needed to outnumber Medjays 4:1 to capture Nubian cities. Lastly withdrawal chance allows more of War Chariots to survive.

Another thing, third UHV has effective deadline at Greek Conquerors. Building an army that can face several stacks of ten units isn't possible without tanking your economy.

 

[Hickman888]

Couple of things I noticed in my attempts at Egypt UHV:

I found that War Chariots work better than Light Swordsmen for conquest of Nubia. They are available earlier which means you can attack Nubia before they amass large force of Medjays. Also their immunity to first strikes gives them a better chance of damaging Medjays when losing. I still needed to outnumber Medjays 4:1 to capture Nubian cities. Lastly withdrawal chance allows more of War Chariots to survive.

Another thing, third UHV has effective deadline at Greek Conquerors. Building an army that can face several stacks of ten units isn't possible without tanking your economy.

In my games, Nubia didn't train additional Medjays until after I declared war. After that, they could be counted on to start whipping them out fairly consistently. When I invaded them around Turn 90 with my Light Swordsmen in the games that I won, they still only had the two starting Medjays. I didn't try to force War Chariots on an enemy clearly designed to counter them, a ratio of 4:1 was too much for me to stomach; I think I lost two War Chariots without damaging a Medjay before abandoning that game and War Chariot strategy and changing my strategy to Light Swordsmen.

 

[FraggleJock]

Monarch/Normal
I found the tile where the horse spawn a much better capital. was able to push out 2/chariots every 3 turns so didn't care about losses the 2 move just brought new guys to the slaughter quickly.
Building a city adjacent to where the Nubians like to put there second city in the Nile bend cripples them and it becomes an okay city when the Nubians are crushed.
Alexandria is a TRAP it just leaves you with 3 stacks of greek conquerors instead of 2. I raze Sur so had 4 good cities Cap,Jerusalem, The blocker and Nubian Cap. and one evil trash city Alexandria
Chariots are a great pillager too if you feel like turning Mesopotamia into a burning wasteland

 

[Logoncal]

Which city do you build then the Lighthouse if Alexandria is out of the question

 

[FraggleJock]

Jerusalem, It's a production monster even when tiny

 

[Wessel V1]

I found Zawty 2 south of the starting position to be quite strong. It has all the required resources, plenty of food to work the desert hills and the culture it produces allows for an early city on the copper. Together with Alexandria, founded before constructing any wonders, on Regent + Epic and without a Great Artist, I managed to get the UHV at 488BC.

 

[CometHalo]

Feature or bug: if you settle one left of Nubia's gold before you get the warning about their spawn about to happen you preclude them entirely. I beat Egypt on Emperor/normal before Alexander invaded by doing this, but it doesn't feel like it's supposed to happen...

I do have this recorded (was planning on making a playlist of UHV at the hardest difficulty I can manage), might add it here.

@Hickman888 is this idea OK with you? I do not want to give the impression of trying to compete or something...

 

[Hickman888]

I do have this recorded (was planning on making a playlist of UHV at the hardest difficulty I can manage), might add it here.

@Hickman888 is this idea OK with you? I do not want to give the impression of trying to compete or something...

Go ahead I’m always interested to see how other players complete the UHVs, we all might learn a better way of doing things by watching other people. And the more content there is for DoC, the better.

 

[FraggleJock]

Monarch/Normal
The New Civics have changed my take on Egypt, without commerce from the mines research is harder. Moved my capital to on the dye so the oasis and salt can be worked. Leaves the copper out of reach until the Nubian capital expands a bit so light swordsmen are not accessible realistically without the burden of an extra city.
Found Oracle is useful but it's not completely necessary if you get lots of early prophets. Non prophets screw you without the Oracle. First GP wants to be a prophet to bulb divination and calendar so I delayed the pyramids til after the obelisk to heavily weight the odds to a GP.
Would like to delay tanning but no archers is a death sentence if you get sea peoples.
Nubia seems to reliably demand your second Wheat, if you accept they build less military so are easier to hammer.

 

[spydama]

I was playing on Regent difficulty and Epic speed.
As my first production in the capital, I chose The Great Sphinx, and as my first research, I selected Masonry.
As soon as the research was completed, I immediately built a Quarry.
However, I still failed to construct The Great Sphinx by just 1 turn.
Using the World Builder, I found out that Babylon had completed The Great Sphinx first.
I don't know any way to build The Great Sphinx faster than this.

 

[1SDANi]

I was playing on Regent difficulty and Epic speed.
As my first production in the capital, I chose The Great Sphinx, and as my first research, I selected Masonry.
As soon as the research was completed, I immediately built a Quarry.
However, I still failed to construct The Great Sphinx by just 1 turn.
Using the World Builder, I found out that Babylon had completed The Great Sphinx first.
I don't know any way to build The Great Sphinx faster than this.

Egypt kinda currently massively depends on Babylon's AI not beelining an Egyptian wonder, just keep rolling starts until one works

 

[Dracosolon]

I was playing on Regent difficulty and Epic speed.
As my first production in the capital, I chose The Great Sphinx, and as my first research, I selected Masonry.
As soon as the research was completed, I immediately built a Quarry.
However, I still failed to construct The Great Sphinx by just 1 turn.
Using the World Builder, I found out that Babylon had completed The Great Sphinx first.
I don't know any way to build The Great Sphinx faster than this.

On Normal, if you settle 1S on the Dye and start building the Sphinx right away, you can have it completed by turn 28 thanks to the from the Marble, possibly faster if you micromanage your tiles. It's still not impossible for Babylon or even Harappa (both of them have Stone) to steal either wonder from you though.
It's possible to do it even faster if you settle on the Stone but you'll be in a worst position for the Pyramids.

 

[Makudomi]

Egypt kinda currently massively depends on Babylon's AI not beelining an Egyptian wonder, just keep rolling starts until one works

This is very much true...and it's why I've pretty much abstained from playing the new branch since trying it out in the early summer. The constant restarts to account for Babylonian (and now even Harappan!) AI beelining have unfortunately turned the beginning of the game into an RNG-dependent slog. Even if the only thing I want to do is build the Egypt-specific Wonders and ignore the UHV wholesale, there's often nothing I can do but reload the game and roll the dice for the umpteenth time if I want to beat Babylon/Harappa to both the Pyramids and the Sphinx. I imagine it won't be like this forever, but wow, it's unpleasant to play when so much is left up to pure luck. I have gotten the UHV, but it felt strangely hollow.

Also, since this is The Egypt Thread and I'm a longtime Egypt player/forum lurker:

I understand that the mod has changed a lot since almost a decade ago when I was doing silly things like founding every religion in my capital -- clearly the main thing the player should be doing as Egypt now is solving the puzzle of their UHV -- but I do personally, selfishly feel sad that the days of guiding a UHV-winning Egypt into the modern age are largely over.

...Or at least that's my perception. If you pick a "long-term benefit" position for your cities rather than settling on tiles that specifically make it easier to get your UHV, the Wonders are even harder to guarantee...and then there are the conquerors, which were (at least when I played in June or so) absolutely horrifying compared to the modest stacks of UUs I was used to. It feels like Egypt is so much harder to survive as now, and to make matters worse, your War Chariots are less relevant than ever.

Maybe I just need to let the UHV/Egyptian Wonders go and draft a new strategy, or maybe I've just gotten rusty. rofl

 

[banzay13]

This is very much true...and it's why I've pretty much abstained from playing the new branch since trying it out in the early summer. The constant restarts to account for Babylonian (and now even Harappan!) AI beelining have unfortunately turned the beginning of the game into an RNG-dependent slog. Even if the only thing I want to do is build the Egypt-specific Wonders and ignore the UHV wholesale, there's often nothing I can do but reload the game and roll the dice for the umpteenth time if I want to beat Babylon/Harappa to both the Pyramids and the Sphinx. I imagine it won't be like this forever, but wow, it's unpleasant to play when so much is left up to pure luck. I have gotten the UHV, but it felt strangely hollow.

Also, since this is The Egypt Thread and I'm a longtime Egypt player/forum lurker:

I understand that the mod has changed a lot since almost a decade ago when I was doing silly things like founding every religion in my capital -- clearly the main thing the player should be doing as Egypt now is solving the puzzle of their UHV -- but I do personally, selfishly feel sad that the days of guiding a UHV-winning Egypt into the modern age are largely over.

...Or at least that's my perception. If you pick a "long-term benefit" position for your cities rather than settling on tiles that specifically make it easier to get your UHV, the Wonders are even harder to guarantee...and then there are the conquerors, which were (at least when I played in June or so) absolutely horrifying compared to the modest stacks of UUs I was used to. It feels like Egypt is so much harder to survive as now, and to make matters worse, your War Chariots are less relevant than ever.

Maybe I just need to let the UHV/Egyptian Wonders go and draft a new strategy, or maybe I've just gotten rusty. rofl

You can play with Egypt if it reborn. Run 600AD game with France (or someone), autoplay for 1000-1100AD and here we are.
Nice bonus - your GP birth rare is reset