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The Egyptians

Discussion in 'Civ3 Strategy Articles' started by Ision, Dec 5, 2003.

  1. Ision

    Ision Master

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    I have decided to do a review on each CIV. My intention is to encourage debate and hopefully to help others (and myself) in their game play.

    The EYGPTIANS

    With Industrious and Religious the Egyptian has a unique set of traits that lend themselves very favorably to a tremendous ease of play. Egypt along with Persia has been a perennial ‘newbie’ favorite since the inception of CIV III. New players always struggle with proper worker management and happiness issues. Egypt has the built in traits that help mask a new players weaknesses in both areas. This can be a double edge sword however. Newer players that begin with Egypt tend to find all the other CIVs inadequate by comparison. The traits that ease play can also mislead players into the belief that Egypt is “THE” civ to play. Ironically, experienced higher-level players find themselves coming back to Egypt later on, not for ease of play, but because these really are a terrific trait combo that lend themselves to both builder and warmonger alike. If there is one word that best describes the Egyptians it’s – flexibility.

    The builder will find Egypt a joy to play. Industrious shield production combined with cheap temples and cathedrals makes Egypt a top choice for any builder. The greatest asset to the builder is the early availability of temples. Egypt can crank these out like no other CIV. Early built temples add up to monstrous cultural points by the mid-game. Given a good start, the Egyptian player will be able to duplicate his temple driven Ancient Age culture burst, with a Middle Ages run on Cathedrals.

    The warmongering Egyptian will also find cause to celebrate the ease of his temple building ability. Need quick happiness to keep the war rolling – Egypt has an answer. Need to expand those borders and avoid a culture flip – Egypt has an answer. Then there’s the Egyptian UU - need a solid, fast, and cheap early unique unit for Ancient Age war – Egypt has an answer. Don’t let a warmongering Egyptian get his hands on Sistine Chapel – cheap Cathedrals doubled in happiness can make Egypt, even in ‘Democracy’, an unbelievably long lasting warrior. While not a first tier warmongering CIV, Egypt can more than hold its own.

    The greatest strength of Egypt is for the ‘Balance of Power’ type player – the builder/warmonger who aims for whichever victory type best presents itself during the unfolding of the game. The type of player that does not want to rule the earth, but wants to be its uncontested superpower. Here is where Egypt and her trait combo shine the most. Good in both building and warring ability, the Egyptian can easily alternate between short to medium length wars interspaced with 20 to 40 turns of infrastructure building. By mid-Industrial game he will find that the final outcome is assured. This type of player will most appreciate the dynamics of the Ind/Rel trait combo.

    On the downside is the frequently derided Egyptian War Chariot. For a CIV that may have the most flexible trait combo – they have quite an inflexible UU! The War Chariot is a wheeled offensive unit with 2-1-2 stats and a 20-shield cost. The wheeled status of this UU unit makes it the most map/age/temperature dependent of the land UUs in the game. Play a large continents map at 5 billion years and the War Chariot may be a better UU than any other in the Ancient Age. An extremely cost efficient unit that can be quickly mass-produced - you will over run your neighbors (across those nice deserts and grasslands) in no time. On the other hand - if you play random maps or a 3 billion age map – you may find this UU forever stuck uselessly behind a myriad of swamps or mountains, unable to move and near useless on defense. It also suffers in that any early attack by another CIV, and you may find yourself with an unwanted Ancient Age Golden Age. There’s little middle ground with the War Chariot – usually it’s boon or bust.

    So how do the Egyptians fare with C3C? After playing a few games with Egypt again, I have come to the following conclusions:

    Firstly, the toning down of the Industrial trait has had a negative impact on the strength of all 7 PTW Industrial CIVs. However, 6 of those 7 have had this mitigated by having had a change in some other respect. For example; the Americans F-15 is improved and expansionist is a better trait, The French musketeer is improved, the Persian science trait is more viable, the Chinese Militarist trait is even stronger for warmongering… - Egypt and only Egypt, among all the Industrial CIVs took the toning down hit without any mitigating change in C3C. Secondly, look at any poll taken prior to C3C that asks, “which is the best trait”, and Industrious is invariably #1 with Religious 2nd or 3rd. This is no longer the case. C3C has seen the advent of the Agricultural trait and the re-emergence of the Science trait. The net result here again is a loss for the former status of Egypt.

    In summary, Egyptian play in and of itself remains essentially the same. What has changed is the effects of that play are slightly weaker. Egypt will maintain its status of one of the top – “newbie” favorites. However, among experienced and higher level players they will definitely fall to a middle of the pack - 2nd tier

    Below is the link to my other reviews:

    other CIV Reviews by Ision
     
  2. Smythen

    Smythen Chieftain

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    Thanx again, Ision, for your insight. Your succinct reviews are good reads. This is a little off topic, but why do you say that expansionist is a better trait than it used to be?

    Thanx,
    Smythen
     
  3. Brewster

    Brewster stays crunchy in milk

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    Outstanding!

    I haven't played as the Egyptians since my first victory (chieftain) because I thought the traits allowed the player too much flexibility and would eventually become a crutch. After trying out some more of the new C3C civs, I may go back for another go with Cleo and her war chariots.

    I'm eagerly awaiting your next report.
     
  4. dreamvirus

    dreamvirus Tai Chi Master 1(1).12.1

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    This thread made me smile because I never played the Egyptians until very recently when I won a space race victory with them on Emperor. My favourite civ was always the Chinese - in fact I stopped playing with them because I found it too easy.. The Militaristic/Industrious combination together with the fantastic Chinese UU - the Rider - made things too predictable.

    It's only recently that I've started to value the religious trait more and have started playing games with more of an emphasis on culture. Maybe I'll try the Egyptians out on a deity/huge map and see how it goes.
     
  5. HalfBadger

    HalfBadger The Great Whackyness

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    I think because of the new Science Great Leader, which You have a chance of getting when you are the first to learn/discover a new tchnology.

    Great article again,

    What about trying out the Celts for your next article? i've recently found them almost top tier.
     
  6. dreamvirus

    dreamvirus Tai Chi Master 1(1).12.1

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    I just played the Celts for my first ever Civ3C game and I was a cultural giant very early on in the game because I got lots of cities and built temples in them all early on. From then on the game was easy. Admittedly I was only playing on Regent to get used to the new aspects of the game, but still I feel that the Celts have a powerful combination of traits. On the other hand although the Gallic Swordsman is a great unit, the Ancient Golden Age is a bit of a drag unless you can use it to win the game very early on.
     
  7. kb2tvl

    kb2tvl Chieftain

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    I like the Egyptians. Try a game where you build leo's workshop and upgrade war charriots to knights... heh. You can build war chariots at a rate of 1/turn and with markets, you can upgrade pretty fast as well.
     
  8. phizuol

    phizuol Chieftain

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    What makes you say the militaristic trait is stronger now?
     
  9. Dr. Dr. Doktor

    Dr. Dr. Doktor Chieftain

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    And how is expansionist a better trait?
     
  10. DS_Legionary

    DS_Legionary Chieftain

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    From what I hear you can't trade mpas until navigation, and you can't trade communication until much later either which is what makes Expansionist a better trait. I'm not sure about militaristic, but I don't have C3C so don't quote me on any of this.
     
  11. Dr Elmer Jiggle

    Dr Elmer Jiggle Chieftain

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    This is true (you need Printing Press for trading communications), but I've played both expansionist and non-expansionist civs, and I'm not convinced this improves expansionist. In fact, I think it might make it worse.

    The problem is that now by the time you're able to trade maps and contacts everyone else has had that much longer to figure it all out for themselves. All you need is a few warriors wandering around until mid to late Middle Ages, and you'll have 99% of your continent explored. Send out a couple galleys, maybe even one with a warrior in it, and there's nothing an expansionist civilization is going to tell you that you don't already know.

    I do like the changes. They make scouting and exploration much more important, but they don't IMHO make expansionist better.
     
  12. Ision

    Ision Master

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    I would like to thank everyone for their kind remarks about my review. My first one was on the Greeks and was well recieved. Now let me answer a few questions raised:

    1. Expansionist has a new lease on life in that Map Trading has been pushed back, this gives the human Expansionist player a huge advantage. Remember that the stupid AI never builds scouts. It only uses the first one it starts with.... the human will build alot of them, and have a big early tech lead, and NOW (in C3C) a big lead in knowledge of the map and crucial resources.

    2. Militarist is MUCH better now! Armies are faster, and harder hitting. The power of an early Army loaded with knights or Cavalry is really scary!... yes, I know that MGL's can not rush wonders anymore - but, the player that chooses Militarist CIVs was probably looking to take that wonder by force anyway. Do not underestimate the power of an early Army, get 2 or 3 of these bad boys early on - and the game is OVER.

    3. I am currently playing a game with the Mongols. 2 more games with them, and I will shoot my next review.

    so the next up to bat is.......Genghis Khan's boys..............

    once again, many thanks........

    Ision
     
  13. mdm

    mdm Chieftain

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    the Musketeer is improved? How?
     
  14. Ision

    Ision Master

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    The Musketeer now has zero range bombard ability.

    Ision
     
  15. MSTK

    MSTK Chieftain

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    (( Out of Discussion: I never realized that Egypt was such a..."cheese" civ? ))
     
  16. ybbor

    ybbor Will not change his avata

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    what the heck does that mean?
     
  17. Xether

    Xether Chieftain

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    i only reason why i hate egyptions is their UU. Early Golden age from it and The Warchariot is just as powerful as a horsemen but cant go on mountains limiting strategical moving. And every ancient age unit can take it on 1v1.
    apart from that i love their combined traits. pretty good for a builder.
     
  18. Affirmative

    Affirmative Man with a Mission

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    20 shields vs 60 shields my friend. In AA most people's military cities only produce about 10 spt. 2 turns for a 2-1-2 without mountain/jungle movement vs 6 turns for a 2-1-2 with the mentioned.

    Make your own choice.

    And, if you pillage your iron in the MA's to mass upgrade to knights, the chariots are much cheaper.
     
  19. EMan

    EMan HOFer: Milk-Cow?

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    Thanks for your Civ reviews, Ision. :goodjob: :goodjob:

    I guess I must not be a "higher level player" because I still regard the Egyptians as a FIRST-tier Civ! :eek:

    I used the Egyptians to hold the current #2 position at levels 2 & 4 in the HOF Tables.........AND that's using maps with ONLY average Domination Limit.......the DL could easily be increased by 20-25% using the MapFinder utility.

    For at least levels 1-4, IMHO you don't need defensive units and should be able to defeat ALL AI's using only War Chariots & some Horsemen! ;)

    So, whether you're a Warmonger OR a Dairy Farmer it's hard to fault the MIGHTY Egyptians......ESPECIALLY in Vanilla Civ or PTW games! :)
    (For High-Scoring games using C3C, the Mayans are the undisputed champs, IMHO.....see Moonsinger's 81K game at Sid-Level!)

    Once again Ision, you have definitely fueled the debate of the pros and cons of the different civs..........Great Work! :goodjob: :goodjob:
     
  20. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

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    I am wrapping up my first game as the Egyptians on C3C. I did not play them in vanilla or PTW. I hope this game will be in the HOF soon - small map emperor level.

    Egypt was great! I chose religious to give me a chance to change governments easily while I was finding my way through the revised/new governments on C3C. The bonus I got was cheap culture and a lot of culture buildings doubling since they were over 1000 years old.

    Industrious, though toned down, allows quicker road building and reduce stress on the population to build workers. I still love this trait.

    Egypt was the only one to match these characteristics.

    The war chariot was almost obsolete before my first wars started. In fact I only built a few of them. The golden age was early but so what? At the higher difficulty levels I don't mind an early golden age to stay in the game.

    I am thinking I might try them on C3C deity next.
     

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