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The future of Fall from Heaven

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by Kael, Apr 17, 2010.

  1. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

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    "How I actually play when I do is probably more unorthodox than non-mainstream though."

    -Cognitive Dissonance at work! ;)


    alternatively, you could see it as an Us vs Them mentality (Unorthodox) rather than an I vs Them mentality (non-mainstream). Which is the only way I could see the two terms not being equivalent in this case.
     
  2. hbar

    hbar Constant

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    I would define non-mainstream more as "I vs. Us" if you'll allow me to do that to the English language.

    And I will concede a point to Ekolite; strict conformity to social norms is perhaps the ideal antithesis to being either a geek or a nerd.
     
  3. Jarrema

    Jarrema Master Voter

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    Tasunke, I agree with 99% of what You have written.
    I will risk being boring, I must say that when I was younger, social acceptance was way more important for me than it is now. Now, I do not care about "society", but sometimes I am conformist... My conformist behaviors are directed toward my small circle of friends.
    I only do not agree fully with You when You write about forms of goverment... they all have their risks. If I have to be honest, I would prefer something I will describe s "limited denmocracy" - when one have to merit right for voting and this right is easy to be lost.
    But maybe my point of view is distorted, because I live in specific country
     
  4. Ekolite

    Ekolite The Mighty Jungle

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    No my reason for saying unorthodox was because I think how you play a game has very different implications then how you act in society. It's not something where there is neccessarilly any need or pressure to conform.
     
  5. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

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    Hehe, there is plenty of pressure to conform ... in ladder tournaments. Or in more lore-faithful renditions of RP games, etc.

    But I see now what you mean. It still reveals how negatively you view "non-mainstream" though. Not in a judgmental way, just that it is uncomfortable for you to associate the term non-mainstream with yourself ... thus allowing Unorthodox, a completely similar word, to cushion the blow and also to express how conforming in the video game society is far less of a big deal.

    Also, Orthodox can generally mean traditional, and in places where traditional is not mainstream ... I can further see the viewpoint of the difference between the words.
    At this point, it is not even how similar or different the two words are that I am looking at, but simply at how your position is that Unorthodox is inherently better than non-mainstream ... possibly because there is the possibility for Unorthodox to overlap with Mainstream.

    But again, that is all because of your opinion which we have already discussed.

    I find this a pleasant exercise of thought analysis ... although the fact that I have only had 2 hours of sleep over the course of 38 hours might cause me to repeat myself.
     
  6. Randomness

    Randomness ...

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    I have to say I am thouroughly enjoying this conversation. I am also in high school, but I am part of a very different group than Ekolite. I am a history/lit nerd, and drama/computer geek. In my circle being somewhat "geekish" is the norm, thus not geekish? The philosophy of the group I am around has made me very comfortable with my interests, and uncaring about how I do or don't fit into the society around me. In other words, I am as I am. If someone does not like who I am, they don't have to asociate with me.
     
  7. Nikis-Knight

    Nikis-Knight Deity

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    Let me guess--social status mattered more when you were forced to spend most of every day surrounded by dozens of other people? ;)

    Although in honesty it probably is more maturity and perspective that makes it matter less, given the large number of people who value fame, which is largely social status writ large.
     
  8. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

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    I love how this thread is 18 pages long xD
     
  9. Grey Fox

    Grey Fox Master of Points

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    It's 35 pages for me :p

    And I guess 9 pages for someone with 40 posts per page :D
     
  10. Verdian

    Verdian King

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    This discussion of what Ekolite is or isn't is ridiculous. Am I the only one that can see that Ekolite is a tiger? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
     
  11. Breunor

    Breunor Deity

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    For me, if being a Geek means I can play FfH, and being 'cool' means I can't, let me have that Geek card!!

    Best wishes,

    Breunor
     
  12. Azhral

    Azhral Let's get Tactical!

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    The cool kids aren't that cool. Only the geeks end up doing the hard drugs and becoming alcoholics!
    Wait, where was I going with this?
     
  13. Ekolite

    Ekolite The Mighty Jungle

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    Untraditional is exactly it yes. The orthodox way to play the Calabim is to get Vampires asap and get them up to obscene levels through eating population. I think my way was a warrior/axeman rush with Alexis, without ever building vampires.

    I don't think that unorthodox (as in untraditional) is always against the mainstream though. Traditionally myself and a large proportion of people I know should be attending Church every sunday. Do we? Sadly no. It would actually be quite strange and non-mainstream of me to follow tradition in that case.
     
  14. xienwolf

    xienwolf Deity

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    I am late to the conversation obviously. Nobody answered about why you were asked where you live: That would be due to the fact that each society is VASTLY different. Thus your claim to follow the mainstream needs to be localized, as the UK mainstream and the Thai Mainstream (honestly, just pick any other country separated by more than a 3 day drive) would be drastically disparate entities.

    In your last paragraph though, you strike on the true definition of popularity: Confidence.

    If someone does something completely outside the norm, it gains attention from other people. It makes them uncomfortable initially, as it has disturbed their status quo. They will seek to return to a comfort zone, which means seeking out "the appropriate response" to the abnormality. That is where the confidence comes in.

    If you are timid about your action, or otherwise portray insecurity, then the chances of ridicule rise dramatically. As soon as ridicule is initiated, then what you did is perceived as aberrant and undesirable. In come negative labels and being shunned.

    If you are absolutely confident about your action however, there is a high probability that you shall exude a comfort zone of your own, or otherwise convince the psyche of the onlookers to believe that popular opinion will go your way. They are uncomfortable about you having done something out of the ordinary, but if your actions intone that what you did was perfectly standard, then objecting to your action would make them be the one who is acting out of norm. So they shift their perceptions to account for what you did as being acceptable.

    That is the difference between a social outcast and a trendsetter.

    Of course, the subtleties of subconscious do not apply so well when you come up against someone who knows (ie - has it deeply ingrained into their mentality) that what you did is not "acceptable" behavior. Then it is rare to possess enough confidence to shift them into seeing you as appropriate.

    In summary: If you act like you belong, then you do.

    I have to admit to being the same. The more popular something is, the less I like it. In part I will have to admit that it is somewhat of an elitist mentality, but I feel that is something which came after the tendency to avoid that which is mainstream.

    Main reason I avoid things which are widely accepted and pursue those things which are considered inferior is because I wonder why that distinction is made: Is there a logical reason for it, a clear better choice, or is it prejudice and preconception driving people away from what is possibly the better option?

    Besides, you can easily pick up the mainstream whenever you want, as it is widely understood/documented. While if you find a need for that which is shunned, it is difficult to fill the requirement in a timely manner. Thus if you are the expert on the ignored, any crowd you are in at any point in time is more capable than it would be if you followed convention, and thus knew little that wasn't already known by random bystanders.

    And yes, Grey Fox, this is page 9 for me :)
     
  15. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    xienwolf totally and completely owned the thread now.

    confidence FTW, and never forget confidence will get you all the hot chicks. just ooze confidence and they will never have enough of you :D
     
  16. Ekolite

    Ekolite The Mighty Jungle

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    Confidence is absolutely it yeah. Many people, including me, feel most confident when they're with the majority. However just because your confident about your non-mainstream activities or style doesn't neccessarilly mean people don't judge you negatively for them. Many people are perfectly confident in their unusual fashion sense or tastes in music, but they're still thought of as strange by the majority.
     
  17. Jarrema

    Jarrema Master Voter

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    I think that when someone is accepted by his/her close social group, then there is only very small pressure to conform to "large" society
     
  18. MrManNo1

    MrManNo1 Chieftain

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    I always find it funny when one elitist group scolds another elitist group for being elitist.
     
  19. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

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    I don't think either elitist group scolded the other for being elitist ... unless I missed a post somewhere.

    And yes, I agree that confidence has a lot to do with whether your actions are accepted by the mainstream or not.

    For instance, if I were to go all Conan the Barbarian* while drunk in a timid manner, it wouldn't be nearly as awesome or crowd-pleaser-ish

    *Well, my fighting style is more refined, but shirtless generally gives an idea of Barbarian style behavior. As well as the running fluidly while seemingly ignoring shifts in elevation gradient.
     
  20. MrManNo1

    MrManNo1 Chieftain

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    I was using the term "scold" as hyperbole, but honestly, this discussion is ridiculous. Who cares if it's mainstream or not? Saying that you think things are dumb just for being mainstream is just as immature as saying you only do things that are mainstream. Just do things you like, whether or not they're mainstream. How popular something is should have no effect on what you like doing. Before you criticize someone else for something, make sure it's not something that you yourself admitted to doing.

    Back on topic: Kael, are you going to tell us anything, or are side-conversations like this going to keep getting started?
     

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